I just want to chime in that all the math in this thread is delightful. Keep it up!

I agree that activation padding in this game is a little stronger than in other naval strategy games, but I am not sure how to tweak it. I think this game has some really brilliant mechanics and I wouldn't change much. But I am occasionally bummed that I feel like I'm penalized for not taking a bunch of cheap flotillas to force my opponent to move their spookiest ships first.

I've played just about every naval strategy game ever made and SWA is super unique and a real treat to play. I am not sure if there's an easy solution. Maybe something as simple/mild as "flotillas don't count towards ships being alive for 'all my boats are ded' purposes?" Or something as simple as "whichever ship activated last in the previous turn cannot activate first in the current turn."

13 minutes ago, geek19 said:

3 A-wings and a HWK - Sato i'm guessing? Why not 4 A-wings.... why not 3 and Shara.....?

Valen/TIE - but.... why? Ciena stays alive longer, that TIE gonna asplode....

Would maybe like... Strom/Fel be a decent 2-squad token-suicidal-squad component? Only 33 points, not too bad.

10 minutes ago, duck_bird said:

Would maybe like... Strom/Fel be a decent 2-squad token-suicidal-squad component? Only 33 points, not too bad.

its OK, but Imps dont really do 2 squad combos that well. For 32 you can get 4 TIE fighters. Which is both a point cheaper, an extra deployment, and does a better job of clogging up whatever squadrons you need clogged. Just try not to let them get Yavaris'ed and killed super fast.

I've heard of people using Cienna Ree/Valen Rudor, and I mean, it's a thing. If you're facing light squad coverage versus light squad coverage, it'd work enough I suppose. But if you run into a massive 134 points of squadrons either side they just die slightly slower. There's also no way Cienna can perfectly protect Valen's Poop face, so that's why I don't think it's as good as Shara/Tycho.

3 hours ago, emsgoof said:

Pacific Northwest (Washington, Oregon)

And Idaho.

Northern California tries to show up to the meetings sometimes but we won't let them in

That’s probably for the best.

4 hours ago, geek19 said:

its OK, but Imps dont really do 2 squad combos that well. For 32 you can get 4 TIE fighters. Which is both a point cheaper, an extra deployment, and does a better job of clogging up whatever squadrons you need clogged. Just try not to let them get Yavaris'ed and killed super fast.

I've heard of people using Cienna Ree/Valen Rudor, and I mean, it's a thing. If you're facing light squad coverage versus light squad coverage, it'd work enough I suppose. But if you run into a massive 134 points of squadrons either side they just die slightly slower. There's also no way Cienna can perfectly protect Valen's Poop face, so that's why I don't think it's as good as Shara/Tycho.

I have run Ciena/Valen as a minimum squad complement, and it works really well. The two scatter aces, with obstruction and counter on Ciena who they have to usually hit first is brutal. It usually bogs down and kills up to about 60pts worth of fighters. And then they both survive.

In a game against max fighters/bombers, the opponent often ignores them to focus on bombing ships (as that is where they sunk all their points) and avoid the obstructed shot/counter 2/swarm return fire. Valen and Ciena acted as a great spoiler still, pinning units down and assassinating the intel ships.

Give it a try, definitely gets more mileage than 4 TIEs for 2 fewer points!

The other combo I have seen is Mauler/Jumpmaster, but is a bit more easily killed.

Against any competently flown max squad wing, be it my Sloane or some GHY nightmare, Ciena/Valen are pretty much free points.

Against a middling squadron force it's a great little blocker. Used it on many occasions. The Imp equivalent of Shara/Tycho.

6 hours ago, Green Knight said:

Against any competently flown max squad wing, be it my Sloane or some GHY nightmare, Ciena/Valen are pretty much free points.

Against a middling squadron force it's a great little blocker. Used it on many occasions. The Imp equivalent of Shara/Tycho.

Free points that involves you shooting them, though. That's usually at least 4 shots that are not hitting my ships. So long as you realize they are indeed free points to your opponent and view them as hull points, they still do their job admirably.

I've started to mess with tie phantoms again, and cloak can be suprisingly useful against list that bring only one sorce of Intel they jump in to igron your phantoms, then you cloak out of Intel range but still tie down there squdrons, and if you split your phantoms you can effectively tie down half there squdrons. I still feel phantoms are a little over piced for what they are but I think they are built as really good screeners. The reason tycho and shara are so good is because Tycho can fly to the other side of the squdron ball and now the single Intel has a choice it can only untie half of the fighters. I feel that supplementing a squdron screen with two phantoms makes a fighter screen more versatile and more annoying.

2 hours ago, Truthiness said:

Free points that involves you shooting them, though. That's usually at least 4 shots that are not hitting my ships. So long as you realize they are indeed free points to your opponent and view them as hull points, they still do their job admirably.

That's only relevant if the hits they absorb are sufficient to matter. If the squads get killed and doesn't meaningfully impact the rest of the game, then it's free points indeed.

My point is that just 30 or 33 points in squads isn't really providing a sufficient deterrent to matter.

16 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

That's only relevant if the hits they absorb are sufficient to matter. If the squads get killed and doesn't meaningfully impact the rest of the game, then it's free points indeed.

My point is that just 30 or 33 points in squads isn't really providing a sufficient deterrent to matter.

This is what I completely agree with also.

Well, *should* 30 points of squads be able to meaningfully deter 130 points of squads? I do sometimes feel like my tiny squad detachments get blown up easily, but I guess that's what I get for not investing any more points in squads.

46 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

That's only relevant if the hits they absorb are sufficient to matter. If the squads get killed and doesn't meaningfully impact the rest of the game, then it's free points indeed.

My point is that just 30 or 33 points in squads isn't really providing a sufficient deterrent to matter.

I don't need them to be a deterrent. I just need them to gum up the works just a little bit. If they stop a bunch of FCT moves, or force shots away from the ship they're guarding, that's all I want from them. Shara/Tycho and Cienna/Valen is literally all I've played for months now. The only change is sometimes adding in Lambdas or VCXs. I've never once regretted that investment, nor ever felt it was wasted points.

19 minutes ago, duck_bird said:

Well, *should* 30 points of squads be able to meaningfully deter 130 points of squads? I do sometimes feel like my tiny squad detachments get blown up easily, but I guess that's what I get for not investing any more points in squads.

You don't take 30 points to deter 130, you take 30 points to deter 80-90 points of multirole squads. Which themselves were banking on either hitting ships for free, or tying up 130 points, in order to earn their cost back.

1 hour ago, duck_bird said:

Well, *should* 30 points of squads be able to meaningfully deter 130 points of squads? I do sometimes feel like my tiny squad detachments get blown up easily, but I guess that's what I get for not investing any more points in squads.

Nope!

But there should be other interactions for squadrons other than more squadrons. The counter to squadrons is more squadrons. They way they interact with ships as damage and as the best AA make for a very 2-dimensional and boring interaction.

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53 minutes ago, svelok said:

You don't take 30 points to deter 130, you take 30 points to deter 80-90 points of multirole squads. Which themselves were banking on either hitting ships for free, or tying up 130 points, in order to earn their cost back.

You don't NEED to deter 80-90 pts of squadrons. Lmao. That you can tank. Esp if theyre not super bombers.

Once you get BCC Toryn and 134 squadrs, everythign is multiplicative. Multiplying multiple times on a large original sum gets out of hand

2 hours ago, duck_bird said:

Well, *should* 30 points of squads be able to meaningfully deter 130 points of squads? I do sometimes feel like my tiny squad detachments get blown up easily, but I guess that's what I get for not investing any more points in squads.

It's a speed bump meant to hold up whatever the other guy's squads are doing until you can deal with their carrier(s). If they die but prevent you from getting bombed for a turn or two they did their job. Try not to get alpha'ed and they'll do better for you. Every attack thats needed to extricate the real squads is a good attack that ISNT at your ship.