Just curious if anyone else feels that these two cards have too great an impact on the game?

Between Formal Petition (reducing the power needed to win by 2) and Make an Example (collect 3 power), I feel like the game is now a 10 power game by default.That accelerates the rhythm of the game by 30%, thus eliminating the chance for long-haul strategies and late game come backs.

I'm giving some thought to counter-stratgies, but because of the overpowering nature of these cards I'm concerned that every game now becomes a "beat the Petition and Example" exercise.

Maybe I'm just fretting, and someone will develop such a resounding refutation that these cards will not be such a factor. However, right now, I'm feeling they break the game.

Thoughts?

Just curious, Mike, is your question stemming from specific experiences you have had or from theory?

Both of the cards you mentioned give nice boosts in power but do nothing to improve your position in the game. In practice, I find cards like these are usually less powerful than they first seem because they are pretty dead draws if you are not 3-5 power away from winning the game: while you are building up power, your opponent is developing reusable resources like characters and locations which will make it difficult for you to acquire more power, while you just spent 3 gold on an attachment that can't help you win a challenge or win dominance, etc.

Personally, I like having one or two of these kinds of cards in my melee decks because getting a surprise boost in power to go from an innocuous position to a threatening one is often the key to winning, but I never want to play or draw these cards early in the game. In joust, I usually prefer cards that make a bigger impact on board position because your opponent will overwhelm you if you have too many dead draws.

I think the problem has to be mainly in Melee, since triggering Make an Example in Joust requires quite a formidable table position, which I really can't see players acquiring easily. In Joust Formal Petition could be a decent card right now, but mainly in faster Rush -type decks, and then only for closing in the end-game (especially against control decks).

In Melee I can see that these cards can have more impact, but that depends quite a lot on the playgroup and its playstyle. In a playgroup that doesn't focus on keeping leading players down, and doesn't play many effect counters or attachment control, cards like these can become a factor. But then, the answers to both are already there...

I think both of these cards are quite balanced and good melee -geared cards, which allow Houses with slower power gain to stand a better chance. So... not a real problem if you ask me.

What about Winter Festival, Eddard Stark (CS), Assertion of Might etc.?

Although I only run one copy in my deck I have been able to trigger "Make An Example" sucessfully in almost all my games. It resides in my Martell/White Book deck. I have it posted in the Deckbuilding forum. The House Dayne synergy makes it really easy to reach the count eight condition.

My experience is almost exclusively in Melee. I know that a lot of games are resolved in a lunge by one player, but the 'lunge range' is considerably reduced from something like 11 - 12 power to 8 - 9 power. This means we have to start playing defensively and preventatively when players approach 6 - 7. This colors the game considerably. At least, this is my experience.

run 2 resets.....then a 3 gold attachment and an 8 STR event won't be as much fun to have sitting your hand.

run more event cancel either out of GJ or martell.

run mad king's legacy out of targ

without adding cards, as soon as someone plays "petition" convince the table to attack that person with all attacks possible.

In joust a semi-control deck can handle those cards no problem.

Multiple resets had occured to me, and making it difficult to play attachments as well.

Pardon my ignorance, what is a semi-control deck? If you don't want to clutter the forum with a well-known definition please email me [email protected]

I just meant that you didn't have to make an all out control deck, like a lanni hyper kneel or targ heavey burn/recursion.

anything that controls characters makes formal petition and Make an Example a lot less useful and a lot harder to justify using. As was brought up in this thread recently, control is a lot easier in joust and as such if you wanted to stop this combo in joust you would only need a smattering of control. i.e. lannisport brothel and maybe a castellan of the rock as opposed to 3x castellan 3x enemy informer 3x distraction, 3x guild alchmeist hall, etc etc.