Marauder (Edge of the Empire) + Armorer (Guardian Book). If your GM lets you start with Force 1 then you get Force 2 at end of Armorer. Between the 2 dedications you should also have maxed Brawn.

Both specs have soak enhancers and Toughened. Get subdermal armor for even more soak.

Part of being a tank isn’t always being able to put yourself in the path of a blast, but if you make yourself a very dangerous opponent then NPCs might realize they need to take you out first (drawing Agro like an MMO).

For force powers id go with Move and Enhance. Being able to pump up your Brawn for LS attacks as well as increased movement range is key to helping out allies in tight spots as well as giving you a bit of help outside of direct combat (coordination, resilience, athletics, pilot). Move power itself is a great grab bag for random moments. Imagine snatching the weapons from the hands of your attackers or grabbing a large object and providing cover for your group as you escape or close the distance with ranged attackers.

If you get to a third spec I highly recommend Seer (Mystic spec). It has 2 extra Force rating and a talent that gives your allies your Force rating in defense until they first act (great when the enemy gets the drop on you but you do have to go before they do). It also has iniative bonuses, Toughend, Grit, add/remove setback, use force power as a maneuver.

Regarding sense tree (left side): I’ve rarely seen the upgraded difficulty to be hit pay off enough to be worth the committed force. It doesn’t add more dice in most cases to the difficulty of being hit so you’re not reducing occurrence or damage of hits against you. It’s real benefit is to help generate despair which is only useful if you have a talent to make use of that. Upgrading your attacks an be useful, but I prefer to have more options and keeping as few Force rating committed as possible enables that.

Edit: for gear, cortosis is a must besides that, the heaviest armor you can buy/build with a mod for auto stimpack injection.

Dual wield lightsabers. One should be loaded with defense and the other should be used for primary attack roll, so high damage or crit (your preference). Hitting with 2 lightsabers, while harder does help dispatch minion groups quicker.

On 12/26/2017 at 7:44 AM, DroidDreamer said:

• Ataru Striker spec seems like it has a nice mix of Parry, Reflect and TWO Dodge talents though it has no Force Rating talent. It's weird that this Specialization seems the best suited for tanking compared to Protector, Soresu Defender and Armorer.

• Soresu Defender . This looks like it has everything I want in terms of Parry/Reflect and Improved Parry/Reflect but I don't like the Intelligence-based lightsaber form. Defensive Circle (Int-based lightsaber check that increases ally Defense rating) is exactly what I am looking for in terms of defending allies but, again, it's Intelligence based.

Couple things first, yes Parry and Reflect cost a lot of Strain, but they are absolutely necessary I think if you want to Tank. I'm no expert in optimizing this, as I'm not very familiar with the Armor crafting, but they knock out huge chunks of damage. Managing that Strain just needs to be a part of your build.

Second, be sure to think about what you're doing, devoting everything in your build to Tanking doesn't lead to a particularly satisfying play style (think of the D&D heal-bit cleric...). I say this as someone playing a Soresu Tank. You can be an effective Tank and still devote some resources to other perhaps more interesting things...

Now RE: Ataru v. Soresu

The thing about Soresu is it has Supreme Parry (and Imp. Reflect). Supreme Parry decimates that high Strain cost of Parry (and allows your defense to become offense when shot at, as a Soresu you will likely do a lot - if not most - of your damage through Imp. Reflect/Parry, and it's really kind of cool, feels very on-screen Jedi-like). And of course It synergizes perfectly with not only Defensive Circle and Strategic Form (which it sounds like you may not think you want to do, due to the Soresu Technique requirement?) but also Force Power use. Like Move, you can be the equivalent of the Controller Wizard in D&D/PF as a Soresu, using your Action for non-combat Power uses: creating cover for Allies, moving (groups?) of enemies to further away Ranges, yanking weapons out of hands, or Misdirect, or Influence, etc. all while providing awesome protection for yourself or Allies.

My 5 Brawn Soresu, 2 Soak Cortosis, "left-side" Sense Power, Guard-hilt shoto+Shoto dual wielding (w/ modded curved hilt and Loridian crystal), manages RRBBB (+Disadvantage or Triumph bennies) and Soaks 12 every round (which I know is nowhere near what could be managed, but...) w/ no problem managing the Strain on her Attack round. On a dire Melee check (say, vs. a Dualblade saver-wielding Inquisitor) she can manage RRRBBB using Defensive Stance, and usually weathers the onslaught very well.

Just went thru a battle vs. an Dualblade Saber-wielding "YYYYY" Inquisitor and Sith Force Wizard, that lasted at least 7 rounds, and she took I think 3 Wounds on the battle, ending at like 16/21 Strain Threshold. Completely occupying both FUs for almost the entire battle (although the Force Wizard was dropped pretty quick - in 2 or 3 rounds - to Ally Auto-Fire).

I think the highest Defensive pool she managed against that Dual-saber was RRRPBBBBB when she used all her Talents, got a Triumph to Upgrade his Difficulty, and was benefitting from a couple Setbacks from Crits on the poor bastard. It was ridiculous. GM was weeping, "What do I have to throw at you!?"

Plus out of (and in) combat she's a decent utility Force Wizard.

emsquared's warning about making a pure tank build PC in this system is pretty accurate.

I've got a PC in my F&D campaign that's a Guardian/Soresu Defender/Protector, and to be frank he's found the PC to fairly boring in terms of combat and can very quickly run out of strain if he needs to use Parry or Reflect more than a couple times per round, especially if he employs the Defensive Circle talent to protect nearby allies. It's a very rare occasion that a combat encounter ends where he's not in danger of going over his strain threshold. And while it may not have Dodge, it does offer the most ranks of Parry and Reflect in one place, with Niman Disciple being a close second, though Soresu Defender does have both of the Improved versions of Parry and Reflect. As for being Intellect-based, so long as you can start out with a 3 in Intellect, that's really all you'll need, as after character creation it'll be easier to boost up your Lightsaber skill rank, and ultimately it's better to be rolling more ability dice than upgrading to proficiency dice (at least if the various math nerds' analysis of the dice probabilities is at least reasonably accurate).

Plus, there's the issue that combat in this game is very much built around being proactive and directly attacking your foes, as being able to completely absorb damage from an attack (the goal of tank builds in general) is going to take a lot of XP to pull off. Plus, waiting and hoping for Improved Parry or Improved Reflect to proc isn't a viable long term strategy, since you'll wind up burning through most if not all of your strain in a couple rounds.

Shien Expert's Supreme Reflect can help, especially if the bulk of attacks you're facing are ranged attacks, but you're giving up chances to make an attack roll on your turn in order to cut the strain cost of Reflect down to 1 per usage, so YMMV on how viable a tactic it is.

Ataru Striker is actually not very good at tanking, because it requires you to burn strain like crazy, and since there's no Force Rating talent in the three, Balance isn't nearly as handy as it looks (on top of being buried in the hind end of the spec), plus there's no Toughened or Grit to help you absorb hits. Of all the Lightsaber Form specs, Ataru Striker is pretty much the Glass Cannon, in that it can hit hard, but if you're facing more than one foe it's very easy for you to get overwhelmed.

Thanks for the feedback! I researched and read many posts here and on Reddit before I posted here. So I'd seen some of Donovan's posts on the tank-spec topic and I remember him from the WotC Saga Edition forums.

I'm persuaded that Soresu Defender is the way to go for my Human Brawn-based tank spec Jedi. For a modest, 10xp hit at Soresu Technique, I can get access to lots of Parry/Reflect, including Improved versions, Supreme Parry and Dedication for +1 Stat. I really don't mind the pure tank spec at all. It's actually my preferred playstyle across many game systems and even video game platforms. I tried it once before in FFG Star Wars and my mistake was not upping my Lightsaber skill in favor of talents and trying to do too much early on. So with Brawn 4 I'll invest in Lightsaber early on so I can contribute in combat and use attacks as a way to reclaim Strain. The GM gave +30XP after character creation so I am going full "left side" of Force Sense except the last talent. I'm going to avoid the Int-based Talents in Soresu Defender.

Now my real question is secondary stat. Willpower 3 is in keeping with the character background and helps with Strain Threshold. Vigilance and Discipline would be amazing for this defensive character concept! But Agility 3 is also nice. As a Human, I could grab Coordination out of class. And it puts me one Agility short of being able to handle Unwieldy 4 on the Guard Shoto...

Speaking of, I'm not seeing a lot of ways to get to Deflection 2 and Defensive 2 in a Lightsaber without the Guard Shoto and without a shield. There is no Deflection increase in the Lighsaber crafting rules. Would appreciate gear advice here too. Please keep in mind, I don't want to wait half the campaign to get perks like Cortosis.

ps, I am one those Real Gamers of Genius, namely Mr. Nine Page Background Guy. There's a deep narrative for this PC, complete with history to the history, but as a new guy to FFG, and GM who never gets to play, I am just trying to figure out how the system matches my character concepts. So thanks in advance!

1 hour ago, DroidDreamer said:

Thanks for the feedback! I researched and read many posts here and on Reddit before I posted here. So I'd seen some of Donovan's posts on the tank-spec topic and I remember him from the WotC Saga Edition forums.

I'm persuaded that Soresu Defender is the way to go for my Human Brawn-based tank spec Jedi. For a modest, 10xp hit at Soresu Technique, I can get access to lots of Parry/Reflect, including Improved versions, Supreme Parry and Dedication for +1 Stat. I really don't mind the pure tank spec at all. It's actually my preferred playstyle across many game systems and even video game platforms. I tried it once before in FFG Star Wars and my mistake was not upping my Lightsaber skill in favor of talents and trying to do too much early on. So with Brawn 4 I'll invest in Lightsaber early on so I can contribute in combat and use attacks as a way to reclaim Strain. The GM gave +30XP after character creation so I am going full "left side" of Force Sense except the last talent. I'm going to avoid the Int-based Talents in Soresu Defender.

Now my real question is secondary stat. Willpower 3 is in keeping with the character background and helps with Strain Threshold. Vigilance and Discipline would be amazing for this defensive character concept! But Agility 3 is also nice. As a Human, I could grab Coordination out of class. And it puts me one Agility short of being able to handle Unwieldy 4 on the Guard Shoto...

Speaking of, I'm not seeing a lot of ways to get to Deflection 2 and Defensive 2 in a Lightsaber without the Guard Shoto and without a shield. There is no Deflection increase in the Lighsaber crafting rules. Would appreciate gear advice here too. Please keep in mind, I don't want to wait half the campaign to get perks like Cortosis.

ps, I am one those Real Gamers of Genius, namely Mr. Nine Page Background Guy. There's a deep narrative for this PC, complete with history to the history, but as a new guy to FFG, and GM who never gets to play, I am just trying to figure out how the system matches my character concepts. So thanks in advance!

Um. Hi. I think there is a crystal in the F&D book that's a defensive crystal that gives defense 1, and can be modded to give Defense +1 and Deflection +2.

I think it's called a Lordian crystal? I'm not sure of the name. Starts with an L.

Be aware, it's a slow, non-optimal burn, but you can access ALL of the Soresu tree without going thru Soresu Technique (the right side path)... if you have no intentions of using the related Talents, might be worth it in the looong run.

As for Gear, the goals I'd recommend are:

Cortosis Armored Robes (and try to convince your GM that since Defense and Defensive and Deflection are all different Qualities that they should stack :P), with Biofeedback System attachment

Guard Shoto w/ Loridian Gem, modded to be Defensive +1, Deflection +1, w/ Curved Hilt attachment modded for Defensive +1 (for a total Defensive 3, Deflection 3)

Shoto w/ highest Damage crystal you can get your sweaty little hands on, and Extended Hilt, or Balanced Hilt, or whatever you want your Shoto to function as (damage or advantage booster).

With a Jedi tank you need the Flow power and a decent FR to keep your strain from running out due to parry and reflect.

Soresu plus Niman would be a great combo for this. Parry 9 reflect 8 plus melee defense 2 and improved center of being, which is a lot better than basic.

Protector is awesome because you can reach both Force Rating and Dedication without a lot of XP. And don't pooh pooh those stimpack talents, they are great defense talents. Each one is an effective +5 WT.

Also, if you don't think shields are lame, cortosis shields are nice for defense.

As far as characteristics go, Agility 3 really isn't going to be all that much help, since the main skills it ties to are shooting things (probably not a major focus for your PC) and flying things, which doesn't tend to come up very often and unless you're in a starfighter squadron game you really only need one capable pilot. So you can leave it at it's starting value and be okay.

Willpower 3 as you said is a solid investment, but don't completely overlook Intellect, since that ties to Mechanics, which is the skill you're going to be using to modify your lightsaber's kyber crystal; even untrained an Intellect of 3 and 1 Force die gives you better odds at getting the 3rd and 4th mods than just Intellect 2 and 1 Force dice, and you're not waiting to bump your Force Rating to get more Force dice on the check. Intellect is also good for knowing stuff, so having a default of 3 ability dice when making Knowledge checks doesn't suck.

If you've got zero interest in using the Soresu distinct talents (especially Circle of Defense), then a Lorrdian gemstone is a solid investment. Decent damage (base 7), and can be fairly easily modified to offer up Defensive 2 and Deflection 2, which makes Circle of Defense largely superfluous since the defense values wouldn't stack (at least not under current dev rulings). Add in a Superior Hilt Customization for an extra point of damage and a free advantage on checks and then the reflex grip from Endless Vigil (can boost your Parry or Reflect value by one by paying an extra point of strain, and can be modded for another rank of Defensive and Deflection, which as a GM I'd allow to stack with the benefits of the Lorrdian gemstone for 3 points of melee and ranged defense).

5 minutes ago, DroidDreamer said:

Again, thanks all for the feedback. About the gearing. I've read LOTS of "does defense stack" threads and it seems the jury is still out and the devs have not definitively answered the defense stacking question. I've read and parsed Sam Stewart's response from a while back and it still leaves me unsure.

Some gear, like the Cortosis Shield, start out with a "base" defense bonus like Deflection 2 and Defensive 2. Some mods are described as "+1 Deflection" or "+2 Defensive." I thought I understood the basic rule as " you pick the highest base defense and then add anything that's expressly written as a 'plus' or 'increase' to the base. "

By that reading, as Donovan notes, I could start with a basic lightsaber hilt add the Lorrdian gemstone which starts with Defensive 1 and has one +1 Defensive and two +1 Deflection mod options. With mods that gets the Lorrdian gemstone lightsaber up to a total of Deflection 2 and Defensive 2. THEN I could add the Reflex Grip which has one +1 Defensive and one +1 Deflection mod options. I know there are other options but so far, is it Rules As Written that the fully modded Lorrdian gemstone plus the Reflex Grip add up to Defensive 3 and Deflection 3? Or is that ambiguous in the rules and would require a GM call?

Next question: Assuming I have a Riot Shield or Cortosis Shield which both start with a "base" at Defensive 2 and Deflection 2, how does that interact with the above-mentioned Lorrdian gemstone + Reflect Grip lightsaber? Do they stack? While the gemstone has a "base" Defensive 1 attribute, all the other mods are "+1" mods.

Related question: If I carry a shield on my offhand BUT DO NOT ATTACK WITH IT, do the double weapon attack rules apply to swinging with the lightsaber?

Defensive bonuses from weapons generally don't stack from what I understand, so no added benefit from having two defensive weapons.

To the last question the answer is no. You can hold two weapons, or two shields or whatever. As long as you just attack with one of them then there is no difficulty upgrade. But if you do attack with both weapons then you're required to use the one you have the smallest dice pool in for the attack roll. Then you decide which weapon you hit them with first and you can usel extra advantages for an extra hit.

1 minute ago, Darth Revenant said:

Defensive bonuses from weapons generally don't stack from what I understand, so no added benefit from having two defensive weapons.

To the last question the answer is no. You can hold two weapons, or two shields or whatever. As long as you just attack with one of them then there is no difficulty upgrade. But if you do attack with both weapons then you're required to use the one you have the smallest dice pool in for the attack roll. Then you decide which weapon you hit them with first and you can usel extra advantages for an extra hit.

Assume a vanilla lightsaber with no defense bonuses one way or the other and a Cortosis Shield. If you don't attack with the shield but do attack with the lightsaber, do you get the passive Defensive/Deflection bonuses from the shield and no two-attack penalty?

Just now, DroidDreamer said:

Assume a vanilla lightsaber with no defense bonuses one way or the other and a Cortosis Shield. If you don't attack with the shield but do attack with the lightsaber, do you get the passive Defensive/Deflection bonuses from the shield and no two-attack penalty?

Yes, you get the defensive/deflection bonus and no negatives.