53 minutes ago, Odanan said:

You basically described (some parts of) the OT and the (whole) Prequels.

Interesting to note that that's not a rebuttal, it's an attempt at a justification. "Oh well the original films didn't have amazing scripts or stories so it doesn't matter that The Last Jedi doesn't". Actually, it does matter. That's why the prequels weren't particularly well received either, and why midichlorians remain a meme to this day.

The original films were silly, fantasy fun, with daft dialogue and ropey storylines. Yes. But for all that they retained internal consistency and theme, in the story, the setting and the characters. The prequels strayed from that consistency and were criticised for it, but also to an extent got away with it due to being completely different stories set earlier in the timeline and not dramatically impacting the story (and more importantly, the beloved characters) of the originals. The Least Jedi doesn't do that. It is - as Hobo pointed out - a modern rehash of Empire Strikes Back, only with an inferior story, less interesting characters and a poorly developed plot, that at the same time manages to take a hefty dump on the characters and events of the original trilogy.

For me, the best action movies see intelligent bad guys putting the heroes into impossible situations that they can only escape by being even smarter. Winning because the other side is incompetent doesn't make for strong characters. And here there's plenty of incompetence on both sides.

One of the side stories felt very tacked on.

I loved the humour in Rogue One, but here it often didn't work or took me out of the universe.

And I'm sure if you looked hard enough at one of the recurring creatures, you'd be able to see the Disney tags still on them.

That said, there were some amazing scenes in there. I just wish they were in a movie that hung together better.

1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

Interesting to note that that's not a rebuttal, it's an attempt at a justification. "Oh well the original films didn't have amazing scripts or stories so it doesn't matter that The Last Jedi doesn't".

It's not even true. The OT aren't masterpieces, but they are very solidly and competently written, with tight, concise plots and engaging characters with clear motivations. Nobody's ever going to give them a screenplay award, but they're so far above The Last Jedi in terms of structure, pacing and tone it's laughable to even make that argument. Laughable .

3 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Interesting to note that that's not a rebuttal, it's an attempt at a justification. "Oh well the original films didn't have amazing scripts or stories so it doesn't matter that The Last Jedi doesn't" . Actually, it does matter. That's why the prequels weren't particularly well received either, and why midichlorians remain a meme to this day.

The original films were silly, fantasy fun, with daft dialogue and ropey storylines. Yes. But for all that they retained internal consistency and theme, in the story, the setting and the characters. The prequels strayed from that consistency and were criticised for it, but also to an extent got away with it due to being completely different stories set earlier in the timeline and not dramatically impacting the story (and more importantly, the beloved characters) of the originals. The Least Jedi doesn't do that. It is - as Hobo pointed out - a modern rehash of Empire Strikes Back, only with an inferior story, less interesting characters and a poorly developed plot, that at the same time manages to take a hefty dump on the characters and events of the original trilogy.

On the contrary. I think TLJ has a great story and script. What I'm saying is: people are really dedicated to view flaws in it (and the movie has flaws) while the other movies have the same or bigger flaws.

1 hour ago, TheVeteranSergeant said:

It's not even true. The OT aren't masterpieces, but they are very solidly and competently written, with tight, concise plots and engaging characters with clear motivations. Nobody's ever going to give them a screenplay award, but they're so far above The Last Jedi in terms of structure, pacing and tone it's laughable to even make that argument. Laughable .

Failing to empathize with someone's arguments by laughing at it haven't won any discussion ever. Go on. Try it in the real world out there.

But I do think the OT films are masterpieces. And so TLJ. (one thing doesn't exclude another) They are all flawed, but that's the nature of everything we, humans, do.

5 hours ago, Odanan said:

On the contrary. I think TLJ has a great story and script. What I'm saying is: people are really dedicated to view flaws in it (and the movie has flaws) while the other movies have the same or bigger flaws.

Failing to empathize with someone's arguments by laughing at it haven't won any discussion ever. Go on. Try it in the real world out there.

But I do think the OT films are masterpieces. And so TLJ. (one thing doesn't exclude another) They are all flawed, but that's the nature of everything we, humans, do.

Didn't you just write "people are dumb", in the Why do people hate TLJ thread? Not brimming with good arguments or emphaty ?

53 minutes ago, Dwing said:

Didn't you just write "people are dumb", in the Why do people hate TLJ thread? Not brimming with good arguments or emphaty ?

Yeah. Did I let my disapointment with Humanity show up? Sorry.

Let me say it different: "don't worry, people will do the most strange things for the most strange reasons. Don't expect too much of them"