Well despite it's flaws I thought it was good as was TFA and Rouge One, even the prequels if you watch the highly darkened edited version of the three then they are better than they were.

Oh and the above post - there's no way that Rat of Vengence could have possibly seen Empire Strikes Back in the 70's, at least not without a time displacing lightspeed tracking device that swaps decades!.

Also remember that we (us older lot, the moaners) were raised on the originals so how can any other SW film top that?

9 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

It's a polarizing movie because it's a rollercoaster ride from some of the coolest SW you've ever seen to some of the outright worst, rivaling the prequels

Trying to explain how much the movie leaps from one extreme to another is impossible without spoiling all the insanity that goes on

This is so true. I liked TLJ ; its actually one of my favorite, but definitely not the, Star Wars movies. Like around #3 or #4.

But oh my God is there so much wrong with it.

11 hours ago, Hobojebus said:

Sorry there's two places where the CGI is shockingly bad the first is someone on a rock, the second is two someone's riding a non stationary thing.

That first time was CGI? Had me fooled for a real life structure controlled by many people.

either way, that scene admittedly was one of the more rare parts where the characters involved acted as Who they were as people, instead of shells of their former selves, and that sole fact made it that much more magical for me.

12 minutes ago, Yoda Man said:

That first time was CGI? Had me fooled for a real life structure controlled by many people.

either way, that scene admittedly was one of the more rare parts where the characters involved acted as Who they were as people, instead of shells of their former selves, and that sole fact made it that much more magical for me.

The thing there is some of the characters are supposed to be shells, which definitely polarizes some.

There are some serious plot holes and equally bad editing in places, but if you can overlook them the story is solid (or at least nothing worse than previous SW titles have given us). I'd place it in a better league than the fan hate but a worse place than the critics.

If you're really on the fence wait for the directors/extended edition, but good luck avoiding spoilers till then.

11 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

It's a polarizing movie because it's a rollercoaster ride from some of the coolest SW you've ever seen to some of the outright worst, rivaling the prequels

Trying to explain how much the movie leaps from one extreme to another is impossible without spoiling all the insanity that goes on

QFT. Might be the best description of the movie I’ve seen.

53 minutes ago, Ralgon said:

The thing there is some of the characters are supposed to be shells, which definitely polarizes some.

There are some serious plot holes and equally bad editing in places, but if you can overlook them the story is solid (or at least nothing worse than previous SW titles have given us). I'd place it in a better league than the fan hate but a worse place than the critics.

If you're really on the fence wait for the directors/extended edition, but good luck avoiding spoilers till then.

Oh, I really loved the movie, one of the glaring issues was that many male characters were made weak so that the female ones could look better when the females themselves were already kicking butt and taking names. We had characters doing things that they wouldn't or shouldn't have only so Disney could remind us that women are strong too (which I agree with and which Starwars has always been a testament to from the beginning). I'd have rather had more in depth character building on some of the good guys rather than a throw away of all their good qualities from The Force Awakens.

24 minutes ago, Yoda Man said:

Oh, I really loved the movie, one of the glaring issues was that many male characters were made weak so that the female ones could look better when the females themselves were already kicking butt and taking names. We had characters doing things that they wouldn't or shouldn't have only so Disney could remind us that women are strong too (which I agree with and which Starwars has always been a testament to from the beginning). I'd have rather had more in depth character building on some of the good guys rather than a throw away of all their good qualities from The Force Awakens.

True, but the we know there's a good 20 minutes + sitting on the cutting room floor . As with R1, if we got that runtime we may well have a better movie.

The inconsistent post production and editing quality as it stands is still my number 1 gripe with this movie. There are sequences that are absolutely brilliant yet others that remind me of bad 70's and 80's work.

The biggest complaint I get is it doesn't answer any questions left by the J.J. verse.

That being said I liked the movie but then again I didn't like Episode 7. I think the one major complaint is pacing, oh and one unnecessary scene trying to make a political statement about the 1% and how being rich is bad. People say that was where the movie went into prequel territory.

But two different directors, two different ideas where to take the story almost 2 different stories, you had one (J.J.) trying to set up all these different plot twists and lore to answer at a later date and the other one (Ryan) just said it doesn't really matter.

(Did Star Wars just EU itself?)

14 hours ago, Larky Bobble said:

Characters have been completely rewritten from scratch.

Like whom? Poe was recruited into the resistance because he disobeyed orders because and insisted on going after the first order and risking the "peace" with the republic/first order. That has been established in "before the awakening" which was released together with TFA.

Luke? That guy wanted to ******* murder Vader for more than just a second when Leia was threatened. It fits the character and Hamill seems happy with the final result, even when he was sceptical about the first version of the script.

So I am not really sure which characters get rewritten.

3 hours ago, Ralgon said:

The thing there is some of the characters are supposed to be shells, which definitely polarizes some.

There are some serious plot holes and equally bad editing in places, but if you can overlook them the story is solid (or at least nothing worse than previous SW titles have given us). I'd place it in a better league than the fan hate but a worse place than the critics.

If you're really on the fence wait for the directors/extended edition, but good luck avoiding spoilers till then.

It isn't solid at all its riddled with plot holes like how that person doesn't tell the other person their plan for no logical reason which leads to those other persons ultimate fate.

16 minutes ago, Hobojebus said:

It isn't solid at all its riddled with plot holes like how that person doesn't tell the other person their plan for no logical reason which leads to those other persons ultimate fate.

i have a logical reasoning i'm sure noones mentioned yet, but it takes spoilers to explain.....

Edit: and i don't want to have to defend myself for another 2 pages because people will just tell me i'm wrong instead of just having a different point of view...

On December 24, 2017 at 5:12 AM, SEApocalypse said:

Like whom? Poe was recruited into the resistance because he disobeyed orders because and insisted on going after the first order and risking the "peace" with the republic/first order. That has been established in "before the awakening" which was released together with TFA.

Luke? That guy wanted to ******* murder Vader for more than just a second when Leia was threatened. It fits the character and Hamill seems happy with the final result, even when he was sceptical about the first version of the script.

So I am not really sure which characters get rewritten.

I googled "Hamill happy last jedi". You should try it. The only articles are those from October, before Hamill was gagged. He has done none since, everyone is extrapolating from one interview round where he says he disagreed with the characters presentation, but respects that it wasn't his call but Rian's. He does though say that it is not he same Luke as Lucas' Star Wars and that he felt the character was now a "Jake Skywalker" as opposed to a Luke. Given his reaction after the premiere, it is doubtful he is happy with it.

Don't give in to the Hate. That way lies the Darkside.

Personally as a life long fan I loved it.

The Haters need to accept change and move on, actors die, characters die, but Star Wars is going to live forever. Also it's so much better than the prequels, almost anything can be forgiven

COMPLETELY PERSONAL:

Good points:

+Special Effects.

+Striking Visual moments.

+Good ship battles.

+Not so parallel with ESB as TFA was with ANH. BUT with clear visual references (as the AT AT seen in the Tráiler).

+Good treatment of "nostalgia factor".

Good/Bad Points:

+/-Luke (not for me, in fact, for me Luke is one of the best things in the movie, but one of most hated character development by other people).
+/- The tears of X Wing Imperial players when they see that Ties/fo and Tie Silencer have Torpedoes. Sad for them, funny to me.

Bad points:

-Enormous Plot Holes. Which lead to:

-Narrative incoherence.

-A couple of potentially deceiving Plot twists.

-Somehow, I see that now First Order is more "childish". In contrast of the Hitler-Like speech of General Hux in TFA, we now see them as a band of stupidly funny fanatics (like KuKluxKlan in Django Unchained).

There are a couple more, but they are almost spoiler.

Basically, it's a very contemporary AAA movie.

The pacing is horrible, and it tries to shove too much stuff in the limited movie time, resulting in something that is not really a movie but a patchwork of "cool" scenes. The movie also works against his same trilogy by "resolving" some plot hooks that were created by TFA.

It's also full of humor and disney-stuff that fly in the face of the theme of the movie.

I like TFA and R1, I'm also less critical of the Prequels than many, but man, I'm not really interested in the third one now.

2 hours ago, Erion_Fett said:

Good/Bad Points:

+/-Luke (not for me, in fact, for me Luke is one of the best things in the movie, but one of most hated character development by other people).

I totally understand this. Mark Hamill put on an A+ performance as Luke, in fact probably his best performance as Luke. It came from the heart.

However, it's easy to understand why he objected to Rian's writing for Luke. It is senseless, it is destructive, and it is an utter, utter waste of potential.

So yes, Luke was a massive plus to the film, but the writing and direction for the character was at the same time a massive negative.

19 hours ago, SpikeSpiegel said:

Almost everyone that claims to be a hardcore Star Wars fan who loved Rogue One will hate TLJ, and there is no apparent reason why this correlation is true.

Oh, there is a correlation.

Rogue One, Rebels and the Prequels are set before the OT and change nothing of the "classic Star Wars".

Since TFA is just a remake of the OT, the first movie who really changed the Star Wars mythos is TLJ. And that's why some people hate it - they don't want Star Wars to become something different.

5 minutes ago, Odanan said:

Oh, there is a correlation.

Rogue One, Rebels and the Prequels are set before the OT and change nothing of the "classic Star Wars".

Since TFA is just a remake of the OT, the first movie who really changed the Star Wars mythos is TLJ. And that's why some people hate it - they don't want Star Wars to become something different.

I don't mind Star Wars evolving. It's just a rubbish film.

18 hours ago, Hawkstrike said:

Disney didn't adapt their script from my fan-fic, so they're wrong.

This! ^

Just now, Stay On The Leader said:

I don't mind Star Wars evolving. It's just a rubbish film.

As cinema, it's the best executed Star Wars film yet. If you think it's rubbish, you could say the same for all other SW movies.

The hate comes from Nov 28th, 2014 . That's when the mystery boxes were first teased, building the anticipation. Ep7 came along a year later and answered nothing, but only left more questions.

Ep8 then came along 3 years after the first e7 trailer, and everything changed.... and not the way it was expected to. 3 years is a long time to build an idea of what could/ should be

4 minutes ago, Odanan said:

As cinema, it's the best executed Star Wars film yet. If you think it's rubbish, you could say the same for all other SW movies.

There's no question that it's a very technically impressive piece of cinematography.

It's just the story, writing, characterisation and direction that falls flat on it's backside.

17 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

There's no question that it's a very technically impressive piece of cinematography.

It's just the story, writing, characterisation and direction that falls flat on it's backside.

You basically described (some parts of) the OT and the (whole) Prequels.

33 minutes ago, Odanan said:

Oh, there is a correlation.

Rogue One, Rebels and the Prequels are set before the OT and change nothing of the "classic Star Wars".

Since TFA is just a remake of the OT, the first movie who really changed the Star Wars mythos is TLJ. And that's why some people hate it - they don't want Star Wars to become something different.

It's just empire it's nothing new thats why i didn't think very highly of it, i wanted new i did not get it.

54 minutes ago, Hobojebus said:

It's just empire it's nothing new thats why i didn't think very highly of it, i wanted new i did not get it.

Very true, and its a wierd meta movie, because it knows you knows its copying large bits, so it uses that for cheap surprises... But then it twists those surprises again so we are still the same place as Empire. It just spends do much time tying and untying knots on itself, to basically go nowhere from ep 7.