1 hour ago, Sekac said:

Surviving for a bit in space isn't just a thing a movie can pull but the factual reality of being in space.

It's only because of fictional stories that we believe the myth of near instantaneous freezing, suffocation, or the especially gruesome myth that gases in your body will make you pop.

None of these are true.

1) You don't freeze in space. It's not like water that can transfer cold. There's (nearly) nothing there, which means there's nothing to cool you down quickly. You'll cool at the rate at which your body gives off heat which means you'll suffocate looooong before you freeze.

2) You don't pop. Your cardiovascular system has the tensile strength to withstand the expanding gases within your body. This myth is just stupid.

3) Leia wasn't in space long enough to suffocate.

4) Considering that if you throw a coin in space, it will propel you the opposite direction, it would take very little force (in both senses) to propel her through space.

So in that scene, if she survived the destruction of the bridge, there is no reason she would've died after. She would most likely have a bad case of the bends and maybe mild hypothermia. She'd need to be plugged into some sort of sci-fi medical bed, which she was, but there is no reason she would've died or been unable to get back to the ship.

The people complaining about this scene just don't really have any justifiable reasons other than circular logic: "It's dumb because it's stupid."

I can't speak for everybody else, but my issue with that scene has nothing to do with how quickly Leia would have died.

It's her supermanning to the other ship that pissed me off.

If any shmuck can just do that then what's the point of writing suspense in the first place?

"Oh, a lightsaber is about to crash down on your face? BAAM! FORCE EX MACHINA, YOURE SAVED!"

I'm fine with Sith and Jedi throwing lightning and rocks at each other using the force, but, come on. If one can do that then what's the point of ever being on the edge of my seat? There's a reason some people dislike Superman as a concept; he's too powerful to have any kind of suspense.

27 minutes ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

Oh, silly me, you only said the last few years.

An-eyeroll-but-it-just-gets-bigger.jpg

Someone is way to into their FW:FW:FW:STDH emails. Gen Z isn't going to save you from...I don't know Kahmilla Khan(?) or whatever you think is destroying America at the moment. Probably because they're getting more diverse and loving that their media is too!

I said the last few years sucked i never mentioned my life being ruined like i said a poorly constructed strawman.

Eyeroll all you want not one word is untrue and it can all be proven very easily.

Not american dude.

I've gone at length telling people how and why I love this movie to pieces.

People are just mad because they, "Ruined Luke" or, "Snoke died" or, "it didn't go the way I expected and that somehow means it's terrible."

It's just like. A lot of the hate is really dumb.

1 hour ago, Warlon said:

I can't speak for everybody else, but my issue with that scene has nothing to do with how quickly Leia would have died.

It's her supermanning to the other ship that pissed me off.

If any shmuck can just do that then what's the point of writing suspense in the first place?

"Oh, a lightsaber is about to crash down on your face? BAAM! FORCE EX MACHINA, YOURE SAVED!"

I'm fine with Sith and Jedi throwing lightning and rocks at each other using the force, but, come on. If one can do that then what's the point of ever being on the edge of my seat? There's a reason some people dislike Superman as a concept; he's too powerful to have any kind of suspense.

What? You're fine with the force being able to move rocks, X-wings, and push other people, but the moment they use the force to propel themselves through a gravity-less, frictionless environment they've reached godmode and are so powerful that there is no point of even writing suspense?! That is....insane.

It would take less force to move a person through space than it would to lift a rock against the gravity of a planet. So exactly how does doing an easier thing make you superman? I'm having trouble following your hyperbole.

Also, how would being able to slowly drift through space prevent you from getting killed by a lightsaber?

14 hours ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

Reclaiming space in movies previously denied to poc's and women is exactly the kind of movement mlk would have endorsed. So I don't know what you're mad about, white fragility I guess.

Not mad. Never was. Am not now. Carry on.

Love your last sentence, though. Says a lot about you.

1 minute ago, Scopes said:

Not mad. Never was. Am not now. Carry on.

Love your last sentence, though. Says a lot about you.

https://twitter.com/dril/status/134787490526658561?s=09

1 minute ago, FTS Gecko said:

My sentiments exactly. I'll join you if you don't mind.

4 minutes ago, Sekac said:

What? You're fine with the force being able to move rocks, X-wings, and push other people, but the moment they use the force to propel themselves through a gravity-less, frictionless environment they've reached godmode and are so powerful that there is no point of even writing suspense?! That is....insane.

It would take less force to move a person through space than it would to lift a rock against the gravity of a planet. So exactly how does doing an easier thing make you superman? I'm having trouble following your hyperbole.

Also, how would being able to slowly drift through space prevent you from getting killed by a lightsaber?

I think you misunderstood, or I didn't explain correctly.

My issue with the Force is that it's horribly convenient. If Leia had been trained in the force much like a Jedi then I would have been okay with that scene. But (as far as I know) other than Luke mumbling about the Force awakening in people in one of the trailers we don't see her having a remarkable amount of ability with the force, and from what I remember from any other Star Wars media you need to have some kind of training in order to use the Force properly.

It even took Luke a little while to be able to lift his x wing out of the water a little bit, and even Yoda had to pull it out all the way for him.

I was using the being killed by the lightsaber as an example, it wasn't to be used in the context of floating through space but rather that the Force, as a living thing, just shows up whenever the plot is convenient.

Perhaps a better example would be in the Force Awakens, whenever Rey is fighting Kylo Ren who is much better trained than her and has had more experience. But because she's the main character and "the Force" decides to guide her, she's able to just all of the sudden best him, training be damned. What's the point of having this big scary bad guy when all you have to do is mutter "da force" and then you just auto win?

In my opinion it's just lazy writing, now that's not necessarily the fault of the writers now since they had to remain someone faithful to the original Star Wars theme. But I have a hard to staying in suspense when there's this certainty in the back of my mind that the main character will probably succeed because of some unseen force, not because of their training or skill.

1 hour ago, Captain Lackwit said:

I've gone at length telling people how and why I love this movie to pieces.

People are just mad because they, "Ruined Luke" or, "Snoke died" or, "it didn't go the way I expected and that somehow means it's terrible."

It's just like. A lot of the hate is really dumb.

This is pretty much what I'm feeling at this point too. I've already told everyone why I love this movie a lot, and I think that the hate for it is pretty irrational.

Also, I'm kind of annoyed that the movie has now become all political. Star Wars is like one place where I like to be able to escape what it's like to live in the USA right now...

8 minutes ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

https://twitter.com/dril/status/134787490526658561?s=09

Well played.

1 minute ago, Kieransi said:

This is pretty much what I'm feeling at this point too. I've already told everyone why I love this movie a lot, and I think that the hate for it is pretty irrational.

Also, I'm kind of annoyed that the movie has now become all political. Star Wars is like one place where I like to be able to escape what it's like to live in the USA right now...

That's just it, compared to other Star Wars movies this one isn't all that political. Benicio Del Toro gets a few lines and then goes "Ok, maybe I'm wrong." and that's the end of it.

Interesting article: http://www.showbiz411.com/2017/12/23/box-office-last-jedi-now-running-over-100-mil-behind-force-awakens

Would not have expected this.

1 minute ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

That's just it, compared to other Star Wars movies this one isn't all that political. Benicio Del Toro gets a few lines and then goes "Ok, maybe I'm wrong." and that's the end of it.

Yeah, but those aren't even the things people are noticing. I feel like a lot of the really conservative people just went into the movie looking for anything they could label as a "liberal agenda". I personally don't think it should count as "liberal" to have women and minorities in your movie. I wish just once we could have something that the far right didn't turn into some kind of controversy.

Disclaimer: I think that this whole liberal vs. conservative thing is a big sham anyway and I'm sick of it dominating so much of our energies. We need to be working together to fight the oppressive oligarchies of our governments and corporations, not screaming at each other on the internet about why or why not hyper-powerful Jedi Knights should be female or whatever it is people are fighting about at this point. I'm also just singling out the far right because this one's on them - lots of other groups create similarly idiotic controversies.

9 minutes ago, Warlon said:

I think you misunderstood, or I didn't explain correctly.

My issue with the Force is that it's horribly convenient. If Leia had been trained in the force much like a Jedi then I would have been okay with that scene. But (as far as I know) other than Luke mumbling about the Force awakening in people in one of the trailers we don't see her having a remarkable amount of ability with the force, and from what I remember from any other Star Wars media you need to have some kind of training in order to use the Force properly.

One, it's been 20ish years since RotJ, there's no reason to assume she hasn't been trained or developed her force powers.

Two, you don't need training to use the force. Anakin was one of the best pod racers--a sport that humans don't have the reflexes to survive. Yet he was able to do it because the force was strong in him.

17 minutes ago, Warlon said:

Perhaps a better example would be in the Force Awakens, whenever Rey is fighting Kylo Ren who is much better trained than her and has had more experience. But because she's the main character and "the Force" decides to guide her, she's able to just all of the sudden best him, training be damned. What's the point of having this big scary bad guy when all you have to do is mutter "da force" and then you just auto win?

That's not all you have to do to win. It helps if you shoot him in the belly with a bowcaster first.

14 minutes ago, Scopes said:

Interesting article: http://www.showbiz411.com/2017/12/23/box-office-last-jedi-now-running-over-100-mil-behind-force-awakens

Would not have expected this.

I think like it or not, Star Wars doesn't make the majority of its money off of us die-hards, but people who are more casual fans. A lot of folks are probably feeling the same way about Star Wars as they are about Marvel - there's just too many to keep up on. So this market data probably has less to do with how good the movie is compared to TFA (because 90% of the people I've talked to liked it better) and more to do with the trends of people who may have only even seen one or two Star Wars movies.

For me, Star Wars is like my other hobby, LEGO. Us AFOLs (adult fans of LEGO) have to just put up with the fact that 90% of LEGO sets are bought by or for children, so we need to put up with the fact that LEGO's marketing team will probably focus on that 8-16 age group.

12 minutes ago, Sekac said:

One, it's been 20ish years since RotJ, there's no reason to assume she hasn't been trained or developed her force powers.

Two, you don't need training to use the force. Anakin was one of the best pod racers--a sport that humans don't have the reflexes to survive. Yet he was able to do it because the force was strong in him.

That's not all you have to do to win. It helps if you shoot him in the belly with a bowcaster first.

But that's another thing. Why have training at all if you can just be ridiculously good because the Force wants you to be?

We also don't actually get any confirmation that she DID train with the force.

I know I'd be pretty pissed if I spent my whole life learning how to properly fly a spacecraft and I've done extremely well and then some random person who has never flown anything comes in and becomes the best ever in a few minutes.

And with Anakin was that him "using" the force or was that the force "guiding" him? Rey against Kylo she didn't "use" the force, it just decided to make her suddenly super powerful and awesome with a lightsaber because she has to win and no we're not going to offer a proper explanation, she just wins because the Force.

It's kinda like the saying "It's magic, I ain't gotta explain s***."

What takes away the suspense for me is that I know that the good guys will just for whatever reason pull the Force out of their rear and win, not because of training, not because of skill, not because of experience but because the plot demands it. When Leia was floating in space I was expecting her to reach out to Kylo or something and it just be an emotional scene, or someone fly by in an x wing in a dating move and pick her up.

Quote

Perhaps a better example would be in the Force Awakens, whenever Rey is fighting Kylo Ren who is much better trained than her and has had more experience. But because she's the main character and "the Force" decides to guide her, she's able to just all of the sudden best him, training be damned. What's the point of having this big scary bad guy when all you have to do is mutter "da force" and then you just auto win?

Training in what? Both are experienced in melee combat. The only force power Rey uses is letting it guide her strikes which is no more improbable than hitting a certain two metre thermal exhaust port without a targeting computer.

Then consider that Kylo Ren's both emotionally compromised from having just killed his own father and physically compromised from being shot in the gut with a bowcaster that's established throughout the film to hit hard enough to knock people over. Rey getting through his defences no longer seems as improbable.

The only part of Rey's force use in TFA I have any problem with is the mind trick and that's more that she'd have no reason to believe she could do that in the first place.

1 minute ago, Kieransi said:

I think like it or not, Star Wars doesn't make the majority of its money off of us die-hards, but people who are more casual fans. A lot of folks are probably feeling the same way about Star Wars as they are about Marvel - there's just too many to keep up on. So this market data probably has less to do with how good the movie is compared to TFA (because 90% of the people I've talked to liked it better) and more to do with the trends of people who may have only even seen one or two Star Wars movies.

For me, Star Wars is like my other hobby, LEGO. Us AFOLs (adult fans of LEGO) have to just put up with the fact that 90% of LEGO sets are bought by or for children, so we need to put up with the fact that LEGO's marketing team will probably focus on that 8-16 age group.

That's a fair point, but then the trends indicate that maybe they missed with this one? Not sure, and I am not trying to prove a point by linking that article other than to say that perhaps the box office take tells more than people realize.

3 minutes ago, Warlon said:

I know I'd be pretty pissed if I spent my whole life learning how to properly fly a spacecraft and I've done extremely well and then some random person who has never flown anything comes in and becomes the best ever in a few minutes.

You're right, Wedge should've been pissed when Luke swooped in and became the best ever. That movie sucks.

11 minutes ago, Warlon said:

I know I'd be pretty pissed if I spent my whole life learning how to properly fly a spacecraft and I've done extremely well and then some random person who has never flown anything comes in and becomes the best ever in a few minutes.

I always got the feeling that Unkar taught her how to fly and hired her to fly stuff around on Jakku. She seemed to have a lot of specific knowledge about all the ships in Unkar's starship parking lot.

3 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

I always got the feeling that Unkar taught her how to fly and hired her to fly stuff around on Jakku. She seemed to have a lot of specific knowledge about all the ships in Unkar's starship parking lot.

In Before The Awakening we find that she has a flight simulator in her wrecked-AT-AT home, and uses it a lot. She also pilots a starship she has spent weeks rebuilding, to Plutt's field.

6 minutes ago, Ironlord said:

In Before The Awakening we find that she has a flight simulator in her wrecked-AT-AT home, and uses it a lot. She also pilots a starship she has spent weeks rebuilding, to Plutt's field.

Not in the movie it does not count.

3 minutes ago, Hobojebus said:

Not in the movie it does not count.

How many times do they say the word "Sith" in the original trilogy? So I guess Palpatine isn't a Sith Lord?

How many times do they say the word "Ewok" in Episode VI? I guess those things on Endor still don't have a name?

Do they ever say "Rodian" or "Ithorian" in a movie?

There's some things that you have to go outside of just the movies to find if you really care about them. That's why there's an entire canonical universe that Kennedy and Disney carefully control.

Given how much she knew about Plutt's modifications to the Falcon in TFA, it seems like a strong hint that she worked for Plutt (including on the Falcon) between being handed over to him, and striking out on her own as a scavenger.