1 hour ago, Embir82 said:

I hope you realise that most of white people were never responsible for any form of slavery, war or injustice?

Iphones.
Iraq / Syria / Krim war
Wealth Gap.

And you are welcome. Nobody is innocent, everyone is guilty to a varying degree.

I don't hate the movie, but...

It's been said many times, but I also have to say it. WHO THE **** THOUGHT LEIA MARY POPPINSING HERSELF TO SAFETY WAS A GOOD IDEA.

I have never walked out of a movie, but that one scene made me actually just want to leave (and I had been okay with the movie until that point!)

The admiral refusing to tell Poe the plan was really stupid. What does she gain by not telling him? Yeah, he's a hotshot, but even he probably would have said "You know what, that's actually a pretty cool idea." But no, they had to have the stupid reveal and cause unnecessary tension between characters.

The casino scene was just pointless. The only worthwhile thing that happened was when they discovered that the people who were selling ships to the Resistance we're also selling to the First Order.

Phasma yet again being reduced to Boba Fett levels of uselessness. I know Disney has to sell action figures and crap, but I would have loved if they killed Finn there, where Phasma bests him in a duel and kills the two of them (and maybe later when Rey finds out Finn died it sparks her struggle with the dark side)

A somewhat minor issue was when the FO was bombarding the base they were fleeing. You can see in the background whenever the bombers are closing in that the star destroyers in the back are doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. I understand that they're trying to establish that the FO is overconfident but

1. That's already been established.

2. There's being overconfident and then there's just stupid tactics. Any low ranking officer would have thought "You know what, these guys blew up our biggest weapon, we should move our other star destroyers to flank our big gun so that they can't get a clear shot at it, maybe have some FO Fighters hanging around just in case.

3. Poe is literally just sitting there. ANY NINCOMPOOP WOULD HAVE RELEASED HE WAS STALLING. Just shoot him out the sky while his engines are off!

All the tension just leaves the room as soon as you realize that the bad guys are written to be so ridiculously stupid, and the good guys so ridiculously smart/lucky/forceBS

None of this comes close to the Leia Poppins scene, however.

Just...I don't even.

7 minutes ago, Warlon said:

, and the good guys so ridiculously smart/lucky/forceBS

While actually screwing up everything, big and small until ... well the end of act 3.
That one dreadnought did cost the resistance their whole bomber fleet. Great trade. ;-)

3 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

While actually screwing up everything, big and small until ... well the end of act 3.
That one dreadnought did cost the resistance their whole bomber fleet. Great trade. ;-)

Maybe they can use the insurance money to buy some y-wings. Or pretty much anything else.

5 hours ago, Embir82 said:

I hope you realise that most of white people were never responsible for any form of slavery, war or injustice? Because through centuries most of white people were just trying to survive, were abused by people in position of power, and overwhelming majority of them were just simple peasants, more often than not practically living life of slaves (in Russia for example, peasants, which stated about 80-90% of whole country population, were practically slaves till the XIX century).
I like how SJW ignorants hate any generalisation towards people of color, yet passionately generalise white men.
There are no good and bad races, there are good and bad people. I am tired of SJW idiots and their "evil white cis-gender heterosexual man" agenda.

Now imagine that you are using phrase "black fragility" in the same, sneering tone when talking with some black guy. Unbelieveable.

Do you need a safe space where people don't call out dumb racist opinions? I want to know before I trigger you and set off another rant where you totally miss the point and you seem really fragile.

(Sorry, trying to insert a photo and keep getting blocked for too big. Ugh, guess I’m too dumb to post pics here. Ugh)

Just a heads up, I've already started reporting people in this thread. It's Christmas Eve, so unlikely anything to be done for the next few days, so people likely have free reign if they want to keep going down that road and stirring up a bunch of stuff that doesn't belong on an X-Wing TMG forum; so feel free, but I'm sure the moderators will not be happy when they have to come back, nuke this thread and start handing out warnings and bans.

As someone that has a warning on record (which was a fair cop), they are slow about it, but it will happen.

43 minutes ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

Do you need a safe space where people don't call out dumb racist opinions? I want to know before I trigger you and set off another rant where you totally miss the point and you seem really fragile.

Oh quite the contrary. I never reported or muted anyone on this forum despite the fact that more than once someone said some dumb or infuriating things.
I will never silence or try to silence any SJW opinions but I will always point out their inacurracy. Because myth of "white male privilege" in modern times is as much credible as flat earth theory or creationism.

This film on Rotten Tomatoes got an audience rating of about 50%, clearly something is off with this flick. And I would say it is clear that political agenda and trying to shoving down the throats some dumb social commentary (casino scenes) hurted the quality of the movie and didn't resonated well with the audience.

Also flying Leia is as stupid concept as you can get.

5 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

Iphones.
Iraq / Syria / Krim war

All of the things you mentioned are not the fault of white man but fault of people of power, greed and rampant capitalism.
I assume you realise that in Crimean conflict suffer white innocent people.
Do you realise that involvement of United States in Iraq and Syria conflicts were continued under president who happened to be black?
I want to inform you that deep in the hearth of Africa at this very moment there are wars, slave trade, corruption, reign of local dictators and tribal murders - all done by black people to black people.
Another example - Nanking massacre and atrocities of Unit 731, things of unparalleled brutality and cruelty were done by asian people to asian people. Also look at dictatorship in Norh Korea or state of human rights in China.

So no, white race is not responsible for all the evil of the world, there are just evil people who happens to be of every race. it is outrageous that I even have to spell it out in year 2017.

1 minute ago, Embir82 said:

Oh quite the contrary. I never reported or muted anyone on this forum despite the fact that more than once someone said some dumb or infuriating things.
I will never silence or try to silence any SJW opinions but I will always point out their inacurracy. Because myth of "white male privilege" in modern times is as much credible as flat earth theory or creationism.

This film on Rotten Tomatoes got an audience rating of about 50%, clearly something is off with this flick. And I would say it is clear that political agenda and trying to shoving down the throats some dumb social commentary (casino scenes) hurted the quality of the movie and didn't resonated well with the audience.

Also flying Leia is as stupid concept as you can get.

Who are you even quoting? I didn't bother to post about privileged but it's nice you brought it up since "stealing white male's roles" is pretty much the definition of privilege. The idea that certain roles in a space opera have to, by default, be white. But do tell me more about what what serfs in Russia have to do with casting in America? Get out of here with your whataboutism nonsense. And I didn't mean reporting posts, I meant hurting your fee fees, which it would appear has set you off again. I'm sorry. You clearly can't handle even the most banal of conflicting views in your media and I wish you bothered to apply this 'critical' analysis to the original trilogy, and it's political stance on Vietnam (with wwii dog fights) or the 'hard-hitting' critique of the Iraq war that the prequels went for. But no "war profiteering bad" is where you draw the line.

Marry Popping Leia want that dumb, jedi use the force to jump and pull objects all the time. But using it to pull yourself? NOT MY SPACE WIZARDY! Heck, even 2001 pulled the "you can survive in space for a bit thing so it's not like this is new territory.

51 minutes ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

Who are you even quoting? I didn't bother to post about privileged but it's nice you brought it up since "stealing white male's roles" is pretty much the definition of privilege.

Ok I am not argueing with you but you clearly took what I said the wrong way. I was not advocating priviledge but pointing out that a role written for a white should be played by a white. That goes for all races. Do you want an asian playing Ali? How bout a black woman playing Bruce Lee? Race doesn’t get a free pass for everything but one color sorry. Visionaries want to change the world, spoiled kids want to take what they can and punish those they feel wronged them. I don’t know you from Adam but Kris is correct this is no place for a debate outside Star Wars. I will not be posting again in this thread. Happy Holidays.

In an ideal world gender and race should only matter for casting historicals, biopics, or subjects where those factors are central to the plot. The idea that any part in star wars is 'written for' a white person is laughable*.

Sadly we do not live in an ideal world.

*returning cast and people cast as their descendents notwithstanding.

1 hour ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

Marry Popping Leia want that dumb, jedi use the force to jump and pull objects all the time. But using it to pull yourself? NOT MY SPACE WIZARDY! Heck, even 2001 pulled the "you can survive in space for a bit thing so it's not like this is new territory.

Surviving for a bit in space isn't just a thing a movie can pull but the factual reality of being in space.

It's only because of fictional stories that we believe the myth of near instantaneous freezing, suffocation, or the especially gruesome myth that gases in your body will make you pop.

None of these are true.

1) You don't freeze in space. It's not like water that can transfer cold. There's (nearly) nothing there, which means there's nothing to cool you down quickly. You'll cool at the rate at which your body gives off heat which means you'll suffocate looooong before you freeze.

2) You don't pop. Your cardiovascular system has the tensile strength to withstand the expanding gases within your body. This myth is just stupid.

3) Leia wasn't in space long enough to suffocate.

4) Considering that if you throw a coin in space, it will propel you the opposite direction, it would take very little force (in both senses) to propel her through space.

So in that scene, if she survived the destruction of the bridge, there is no reason she would've died after. She would most likely have a bad case of the bends and maybe mild hypothermia. She'd need to be plugged into some sort of sci-fi medical bed, which she was, but there is no reason she would've died or been unable to get back to the ship.

The people complaining about this scene just don't really have any justifiable reasons other than circular logic: "It's dumb because it's stupid."

Yeah last few years have sucked thanks to SJW's but they are losing their power now everyone has just gotten sick of them and even the most apolitical person hates their guts.

Heck Gen Z has seen gen Y and said nope.

So the futures looking brighter now.

1 hour ago, Embir82 said:

So no, white race is not responsible for all the evil

Of course I do realise this, it is literally stating the obvious. Which makes your defensive stance supee ironic, because stating that white, male people have a major position in all this should be not require a discussion either.

So yes white people are responsible for some **** in the world. Besides I literally said no one is innocent. So thanks for making my point. I am not sure why you feel the need to make mental gymnastics to get around that.

Btw from a story perspective there is little reason to not have a female black bruce lee. Just don't call her Bruce than. ?

34 minutes ago, LordFajubi said:

Ok I am not argueing with you but you clearly took what I said the wrong way. I was not advocating priviledge but pointing out that a role written for a white should be played by a white. That goes for all races. Do you want an asian playing Ali? How bout a black woman playing Bruce Lee? Race doesn’t get a free pass for everything but one color sorry. Visionaries want to change the world, spoiled kids want to take what they can and punish those they feel wronged them. I don’t know you from Adam but Kris is correct this is no place for a debate outside Star Wars. I will not be posting again in this thread. Happy Holidays.

This isn't a Bruce Lee biopic, it's star wars. None of these people actually exist, their race is irrelevant. They're not even from this galaxy, how can they possibly have roles written for specific races from Earth? Also it's cool you brought up 'existing people played by the wrong race' because when it comes to when this happens it's whites taking roles from poc. It's called whitewashing, perhaps you've seen Lone Ranger, Doctor Strange? I'm on my phone so someone else will have to post a lmgtfy link to "examples of whitewashing in cinema since 2010"

13 minutes ago, Hobojebus said:

Yeah last few years have sucked thanks to SJW's but they are losing their power now everyone has just gotten sick of them and even the most apolitical person hates their guts.

Heck Gen Z has seen gen Y and said nope.

So the futures looking brighter now.

SJW are both simultaneously weak and being rejected and yet also omnipresent and ruining your life?

I swear I've heard this before but where....

Here's a quote from the best article I have thus far read about the wide variety of reviews for TLJ.

"What’s interesting about the critiques of The Last Jedi is how often, when you talk about them, many of the above criticisms fall away, and you’re left with a distinct philosophical difference between people who love the film’s insistence that the future can be better if we make it and those who don’t like the way it forces us to grapple with the sins of the past"

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/12/18/16791844/star-wars-last-jedi-backlash-controversy

On 12/23/2017 at 7:45 AM, MasterShake2 said:

Okay, I'm getting tired of this arguement that they just use suidice attacks earlier. It's not just for this movie, but it shows up a lot when people are like "Wow, that one attack was effective, therefore suicide attacks on the whole are effective"

No, they demonstrably aren't. Suicide attacks have never turned the tide of any war for 1 very good reason. The best case scenario for a suicide attack is to trade resources. Conversely a conventional attack nets you more than just destroyed enemy ships, it nets you experienced pilots/crews/soldiers and still operational equipment of your own to conduct further attacks. Suicife attacks are actually more costly than conventional ones.

The Last Jedi even shows why it's own suicide attack is basically pointless as it doesn't stop the first order. All the Resistance ends up doing is trading some resources for the First Order's resources. Well, guess what, the First Order has a lot more. Simply trading isn't going to win, you need the people and their skills and experience or soon your just going to have a handful of survivors floating away on a beat up old ship full of delicious Porgs...

Who said anything about suicide attacks? For the effectiveness demonstrated by the hyperspace attack, the most effective and cheaply made weapons of mass destruction would be large asteroids fit with minimal guidance and hyperdrive tech with droid pilots being driven and launched into priority targets pretty much at will. The cost would be fractions of the cost of a cruiser with the added benefit that your people will not die stupidly in a pointless suicide run.

Unless it was only the weapons of the cruiser that made the whole thing work.

Or

Just maybe

They plan to explore hyperspace weapons in a future movie.

12 minutes ago, Woobyluv said:

Who said anything about suicide attacks? For the effectiveness demonstrated by the hyperspace attack, the most effective and cheaply made weapons of mass destruction would be large asteroids fit with minimal guidance and hyperdrive tech with droid pilots being driven and launched into priority targets pretty much at will. The cost would be fractions of the cost of a cruiser with the added benefit that your people will not die stupidly in a pointless suicide run.

In fairness, the would have been a viable strategy at any point during the war. The "why don't they just launch rocks" argument applies equally to all movies. Slamming an asteroid into the death star at light speed would've been a far more reliable plan than a couple squadrons of fighters landing a miracle shot.

Why didn't they do that? I don't know. Maybe they don't have the capability? Maybe George Lucas hadn't thought of that?

Who knows?

25 minutes ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

SJW are both simultaneously weak and being rejected and yet also omnipresent and ruining your life?

I swear I've heard this before but where....

That's a strawman I never said they were ruining my life.

They have however ruined marvel comics, star trek discovery, made main stream news unwatchable stuff like that.

But as we've seen people boycott marvel comics now the sjw titles are being ended, Paramount's sweating bullets because no one signed up for their on demand service to carry on watching after the discovery first pilot, and no one under 55 trusts legacy media or uses it as their regular source of info.

And my dear gen z kids are already making teachers cry as they ask the questions the alt left can't answer and correct them about facts and figures.

Amazing what happens when the targets of racism and bigotry turn on their attackers.

For me it boils down to shoddy writing. Watching ESB the night before, the writing was far superior and it was just a better plotted, more well thought out movie.

Problems:

There was no way for Del Toro Guy to know about the cloaked ships. No one told him. He also had no reason to turn coat.

Why wouldn’t Hondo tell her own troops her plan? Because no on dated her in college and she hates men? Why did we need to know the second thing? But hey, let’s promote sexism anyway. Men bad. Sisterhood good. Arrr.

The not-Empire let small ships hyperdrive away. That tiny ship could’ve either evacuated the crew to separate systems, saving them all, or just make fuel runs.

Luke’s entire arc, including his pointless death. What a waste of a good actor. The best scene in the entire movie was between him and Artoo.

The entire casino sequence and the call to Mazz were unnecessary, as was every kid and cute animal.

Phasma keeps dying like a punk. Leave her dead. She means nothing for the plot anyway.

There’s no identifiable main character. It’s like watching separate people play separate RPG’s.

There’s still no point to Finn.

Engineer Girl was super whiney and also had no point except promoting classism.

Was I entertained? Yes, but in future Rian Johnson shouldn’t be allowed to write anything at all, ever. Even a Baz Luhrman musical version would have been preferred to what we got.

7 minutes ago, Hobojebus said:

That's a strawman I never said they were ruining my life.

Oh, silly me, you only said the last few years.

Quote

They have however ruined marvel comics, star trek discovery, made main stream news unwatchable stuff like that. But as we've seen people boycott marvel comics now the skeleton titles are being ended, Paramount's sweating bullets because no one signed up for their on demand service to carry on watching after the discovery first pilot, and no one under 55 trusts legacy media or uses it as their regular source of info.

An-eyeroll-but-it-just-gets-bigger.jpg

Quote

And my dear gen z kids are already making teachers cry as they ask the questions the alt left can't answer and correct them about facts and figures.

Amazing what happens when the targets of racism and bigotry turn on their attackers.

Someone is way to into their FW:FW:FW:STDH emails. Gen Z isn't going to save you from...I don't know Kahmilla Khan(?) or whatever you think is destroying America at the moment. Probably because they're getting more diverse and loving that their media is too!

3 minutes ago, Sekac said:

In fairness, the would have been a viable strategy at any point during the war. The "why don't they just launch rocks" argument applies equally to all movies. Slamming an asteroid into the death star at light speed would've been a far more reliable plan than a couple squadrons of fighters landing a miracle shot.

Why didn't they do that? I don't know. Maybe they don't have the capability? Maybe George Lucas hadn't thought of that?

Who knows?

Well this is my point. In the universe, hyperdrive tech is many thousands of years old. In all that time, every conceivable use for the tech, good and evil would have been explored, accepted, countered, or rejected for whatever reason. This is yet another example of spitting in the face of the established norms of the universe.

19 minutes ago, Woobyluv said:

Well this is my point. In the universe, hyperdrive tech is many thousands of years old. In all that time, every conceivable use for the tech, good and evil would have been explored, accepted, countered, or rejected for whatever reason. This is yet another example of spitting in the face of the established norms of the universe.

No, using a light speed asteroid would be spitting in the face of the established norms of the universe. The capability to launch asteroids exists, and yet there is no instance of it ever being done.

Asking why they don't do it has no real answer. They never have and they continue not to. That's the norm.