So, I did NOT hate it (though we did see it in a theatre that served alcohol at the screening so that improved things)

Still, gotta admit the movie has problems

Biggest ones:

1. About half the movie is pointless and has no payoff (poor Finn). This bloated the movie to a crazy runtime and didn't make more time for the actual plot of the movie

2. Some incredibly goofy **** (generally during the pointless segments, like bb8 basically rendering Finn and rose into even more nonentities) that borders on prequel nonsense imo and distracted/detracted from the plot

3. I felt Luke's death was way too rushed

4. Not knowing **** about the First Order makes them unrealistically well equipped both for their backstory and for how utterly competent they can be

A lot of missed potential here, especially re kidnapped and reconditioned stormtroopers and ESPECIALLY Finn, and also how Kylo was convinced to turn to the dark side

P.S: I put ZERO stock in "canon". Star Wars will always be Star Wars and I don't see how having a movie people didn't enjoy would ruin their enjoyment of previous films

1 hour ago, Keoki said:

And some of them have the ability to objectively assess a movie, not just mindlessly fawning over any poorly-written schlock with Star Wars in the title.

Idk, maybe people just have different tastes!

2 hours ago, pflrocha said:

The main problem with the movie, is the fact that now, you have grown up, and at the end of the movie, you no longer have that sense of wonder you had when you were a kid and watched Star Wars for the first time.

It has nothing to do with the director, the story, the actors, it's just the fact that you are older.

Very wise words Master @pflrocha

I have an answer to this question that I think is a little different from others that I've read. I'm going to copy it from the other thread:

On December 17, 2017 at 4:25 AM, TheHumanHydra said:

Alas, I did not feel it was a great movie.

As with VII, Kylo Ren is genuinely interesting, and this time he draws Rey and Luke along with him. That storyline was pretty good; it is recycled, but Kylo's motivations put an interesting twist on it -- and the redemption story archetype is so compelling that it just works. I liked the telecommunication scenes. The scene with Luke and R2-D2 was excellent and for me the highlight of the film. Some of Luke's about-faces were a bit abrupt, which is typical for film, and the execution of his final confrontation and death I felt fell flat.

The military aspects of this film make very little sense. I think filmmakers would be well-advised to hire a consultant no matter how fantastical their setting is.

The rest of the film and the other plotlines felt very, well, stock. I admit that I was a dumb viewer and didn't understand what the filmmakers were doing with Finn or Poe until reading this thread. Having been clued in, I unfortunately still don't feel too gripped by those arcs; they're very conventional. The scenario with the fleet and having to board the enemy ship also felt very run-of-the-mill.

I would have preferred the dialogue to be much more serious and lofty.

I appreciate that this movie broke away from the previous films in its twists and turns, unlike Episode VII (I don't feel that it was an Episode V rehash, though the most important story ideas are similar). However, I did feel that the movie contained a lot of elements I had seen before (in film and television generally) bundled together -- not in a way that felt fresh, but one that felt rote. While I think it's true that art, especially storytelling, is always recombinatory, and that Joseph Campbell was right and there are in a sense no new stories, I think it's possible to present those stories in a much fresher form than this -- with the exception of the central Skywalker storyline, which was interesting and fairly well-executed. Slower pacing, a tighter storyline more focused on the Skywalkers, a more serious, realistic, and mythological tone, and matching dialogue in my opinion would have also contributed to a more successful film.

The Original Trilogy felt a little like Dune with a heaping portion of frenetic action-adventure. Episode VIII to me felt a lot like fairly stock action-adventure with a pinch of the old magic -- but just a pinch. I could have done with less of the one and a lot more of the latter.

All that said, though the film was not to my taste, I bear no animus against those who enjoyed it. You will have a film to savour many times. In that, the filmmakers have succeeded.

The point I think I should have brought out even more strongly was that concerning tone. While it's very possible someone's perception will differ from mine, I think this is one of the core differences between this movie and the classics that sells the one to me and not the other. To highlight the difference, I'd like to juxtapose a couple lines that really stood out to me:

Obi-Wan: If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

Luke: Strike me down in anger and I'll always be with you, just like your father. ... See you around, kid.

I hope that helps to answer your question, Celestial Lizards.

My problems with the movie are:

1. Luke - the way he was handled overall. He takes his lightsaber from Rey and...chucks it over his shoulder? That is not a reaction anyone would have, for really any reason. Why would that be his reaction? It makes no sense. His lack of desire to train Rey makes sense for a different character, if that character believes what Luke is now supposed to believe (the Jedi should end because a student turned bad or whatever) but it makes no sense for the established character of Luke Skywalker. In the OT, Luke dedicated his life to the destruction of the Empire and the Darkside. Then Rey shows up, tells him in his absence that all that came back, and he is like, "Oh well" That's not believable. Finally, his death was unnecessary. They just wanted his story over so they could reimagine Star Wars however they want. We are supposed to be cool with that. I'm not.

2. Finn and Rose - In TFA, Finn was my favorite character. His defection from the First Order after a civilian massacre and his rescue of Poe for selfish reasons really gives him an "every man" thing that really works. Then he meets a beautiful girl and the rest of his actions in the whole movie are revolved around her(saying he was in the Resistance, volunteering to go to Starkiller Base, fighting Kylo In the forest) and that again makes him an "every man" TFA ends and he is injured, but arguably in love with Rey. He wakes up in TLJ and wants to know where Rey is(again motivated by a girl) and attempts to escape to get to her and instead meets Rose. Then he goes off on a mission for the Resistance and does nothing of importance the rest of the movie. The Canto Bight scene was a total waste of time. Then he fights Phasma and beats her, but it doesn't matter. Then he almost does something important, in blowing up the battering ram laser (that was kinda stupid in and of itself, but whatever) and then nope, he is saved by Rose and they share a super shoot awkward kiss that apparently makes Finn doubt his feelings Rey. Then later when Rey shows up, he looks at Rose and they kind of set up the scene for a future love triangle thing. That's unrealistic. Finn has done everything he's done for Rey. That's not going to change due to a little kiss.

3. The continuation of Disney's insistence on Diversity yet not really challenging stereotypes - Full Disclosure, I am a white male. That said, I am in no way racist or sexist and don't want this to come across that way, so please read this entire part before judging my intentions. When Disney bought Star Wars, they have pushed the universe from mostly white male characters, to a diverse cast of minorities and females(Finn, Rey, Poe, the entire cast of Rogue One, the crew of the Ghost, etc) and that's good as Star should be for everyone. That said, I would be lying if I didn't say it kinda bugs me that they haven't included new white male characters, except as bad guys.(Kylo Ren, General Hux, Director Krennic, etc) I wouldn't really care do much, except I have two sons. My best friend has two daughters and they have been Rey for Halloween for a couple of year now, so that is good, but my seven year old would like someone to be that is current (so Han Solo, and Luke are out). He even asked me why all the heros are girls. We we're watching Rebels at the time, but he mentioned Rey and Jynn. And I guess this isn't really about TLJ so much, except it just furthered this along instead of rectifying it. Additionally, even when Disney includes minorities, they keep them in their stereotypical roles. Finn, the black guy, is a low skilled worker(janitor) Why couldn't he have been a commander or weapons expert or something. Then Poe, the Hispanic, is a crack pilot, who is hot headed and doesn't follow orders and breaks the rules and eventually starts a mutany. Why couldn't he have been a model captain. And Rose, the Asian chick, is a expert in technology. Why couldn't she be something else. Disney adds these characters, but doesn't try to take them out of their societal boxes. It is really ashame and encourages stereotypical thinking.

4. Rey's parents being no one - I really hope Kylo was just lying to Rey. If her parents are no one, then one of the biggest mysteries from TFA was just thrown away for nothing.

5. Snoke's Death - What a waste of a character. He was supposed to have been this crazy powerful guy who turned Kylo to the dark side, but we get nothing and he dies right away like a punk. What a joke!

6. Tried to hard to add humor - most of the jokes felt very forced.

There is more, but most are minor not picks. I didn't really hate it, but I thought it could be alot better.

Didn't have an issue with the way the movie went overall. I actually kind of appreciate it after a couple more viewings.

My issues are 1. absolutely awful B-plot (Canto Bight) and 2. some character decisions that brought me out of the film because of how dumb they were (FO not jumping ahead of the Rebel fleet, Holdo not telling Poe her plan).

The film is a 7/10 in its current state. I actually immensely enjoyed the rest of the film. Remove Canto Bight entirely and it goes up to an 8.5 or 9/10 for me.

Rey's "parents" is gonna be resolved in episode ix. But I can guess it now, she's a new breed of force sensitive clone (she saw multiple copies of herself in the cave!).

13 minutes ago, JJFDVORAK said:

3. The continuation of Disney's insistence on Diversity yet not really challenging stereotypes - Full Disclosure, I am a white male. That said, I am in no way racist or sexist and don't want this to come across that way, so please read this entire part before judging my intentions. When Disney bought Star Wars, they have pushed the universe from mostly white male characters, to a diverse cast of minorities and females(Finn, Rey, Poe, the entire cast of Rogue One, the crew of the Ghost, etc) and that's good as Star should be for everyone. That said, I would be lying if I didn't say it kinda bugs me that they haven't included new white male characters, except as bad guys.(Kylo Ren, General Hux, Director Krennic, etc) I wouldn't really care do much, except I have two sons. My best friend has two daughters and they have been Rey for Halloween for a couple of year now, so that is good, but my seven year old would like someone to be that is current (so Han Solo, and Luke are out). He even asked me why all the heros are girls. We we're watching Rebels at the time, but he mentioned Rey and Jynn. And I guess this isn't really about TLJ so much, except it just furthered this along instead of rectifying it. Additionally, even when Disney includes minorities, they keep them in their stereotypical roles. Finn, the black guy, is a low skilled worker(janitor) Why couldn't he have been a commander or weapons expert or something. Then Poe, the Hispanic, is a crack pilot, who is hot headed and doesn't follow orders and breaks the rules and eventually starts a mutany. Why couldn't he have been a model captain. And Rose, the Asian chick, is a expert in technology. Why couldn't she be something else. Disney adds these characters, but doesn't try to take them out of their societal boxes. It is really ashame and encourages stereotypical thinking.

I can not like this quote enough. I am beyond sick of social equality white knighting when the point is invalid. You want females and minorities in lead rolls, great go for it. You want them strong characters with good development, sounds like a plan. So MAKE some strong female and minority characters. Don’t make them glaring stereotype jokes or turn white male characters into something else. It destroys all credibility of a socially superior cast when you switch things for the sake of haha take that white boys or make characters typical X walks into a bar jokes. Get some writers that can make good diverse characters or leave them the **** out, also stop stealing male white rolls, it walks a dangerous line between equality and superiority punishment for white dominated media. Sad and pathetic really, welcome to the ranks of the white devils because change for nothing more than percieved desearved punishment is pety and stupid.

If the rebels spread out, like some armchair admirals recommend, then when their smaller ships run out of fuel and get run down there's nowhere for the survivors to flee to.

EDIT: and also, the plan was to escape to a particular place. You couldn't have the other ships running in the wrong direction.

Sorry, this is a long post, but I'd ask that you at least skim it a bit (some of it is from the other threads which usually went on for like two pages before anyone had time to read my posts anyway).

My answer to this question is that people are being picky. I don't mean that in a mean way, I just mean that the people who don't like the movie are listing a couple dozen small things that they hated, rather than one huge overarching problem (although some people see it as a huge overarching problem and I'll talk about that later).

It's a long movie. Every Star Wars movie has corny scenes, scenes I would've done differently, odd scenes that don't add to the drama, yes, even Empire. The fact that this movie was so long meant that there was more time for weird stuff to happen. Luke milking the weird alien, Finn and Rose's whole storyline, some of the scenes with Hux, were kind of the "comic relief" of the movie, and those kind of scenes always draw criticism. Because this movie has more of everything, it has more of those too.

I think that a lot of people don't like humor. I for one enjoyed it, I can see why others don't. I think that humor is an essential part of the Star Wars universe, and I'd find it really hard to watch a Star Wars movie without it. If you just want serious science fiction, watch Star Trek - it's probably more scientifically accurate anyway.

I think that a lot of the problem is the mindset you approach the movie with. A lot of people came in expecting another movie in the original trilogy, and didn't get it. A lot of people came in expecting another Rogue One and didn't get it. I just wanted to sit down and enjoy it, and that's what I did. I think despite the errors, I just liked it, and I'm not sure why, I didn't really like TFA, my favorite Star Wars films are the original trilogy and Rogue One. But for some reason I can't really explain, I just liked it.

I really liked the diversity in this one, and I'm not really just talking about ethnic diversity. I am a white young adult male with reddish blond hair, so I have also noticed that pretty much only the villains in today's movies look like me (I'm ok with that I've been Chewbacca now for like three Halloweens in a row, though). But I didn't really see this as anti-white or something like that. And it didn't really bug me because as far as I could tell, the characters seemed pretty randomly chosen, and I personally think that was the best way to handle this. Plenty of the generals and random foot soldiers in the Resistance were white guys, as well as ethnic minorities and aliens (just randomly distributed). The First Order, although having mostly white guys as their leaders, also actually had pretty good ethnic diversity from what we saw of the non-speaking roles (the random lieutenants walking around in the background). But what I really liked was the fact that older women were portrayed in leadership roles, with very minimal makeup. Middle-aged white women are kind of invisible in today's society, so having Holdo, Leia, and their various aides in this movie was really cool.

I have to say, Rey is probably the best female character in any action movie. Action movies, in my mind, usually do a bad job at handling female characters. In a lot of older movies, women only acted as damsels-in-distress, and the reaction has been to have newer movies have women leads who are often pseudo-men, who think with their fists rather than their heads, and have irrational rage and other overly macho qualities. I think that portraying women as having to act like men to survive in an action movie is a huge trap - it ends up disempowering women, because they are at a huge disadvantage pretending to be something they're not. And that's something that I think Star Wars always did better - Princess Leia was the original empowered yet feminine lead, and she fit the damsel-in-distress archetype while still fighting the Empire (Star Wars Insider has written some excellent articles on this subject). And I think that Rey follows this example very well. Rey is definitely empowered in the way people expect of modern action movies - fighting the royal guards, lifting the rocks, firing the guns on the Falcon. But in this movie, she's also a character who's not afraid to be feminine - she cried at least five or six times in the movie, did what she did to protect her friends (not to seek vengeance), and was intelligent in her conversations with Kylo, trying to reason with him rather than intimidate him. Basically, Rey is the same character as Luke - this powerful Jedi who has a perfect balance of masculine and feminine qualities. It makes for a good movie, because all the decisions are harder for such characters (Luke only barely chose to fight Palpatine, only barely chose not to kill Vader, only ignited his Lightsaber twice in RotJ. Rey only barely decided not to follow Kylo, only barely decided to leave the island, etc.). But it also makes for great characters, because it shows that both men and women should be allowed to use both sides of their personalities. As opposed to TFA, Rey was really allowed to be feminine in this movie, and I think she's one of the very few characters (really just her, Leia, and Luke) who is allowed to be a powerful action hero and also demonstrate strong feminine personality traits. And that's why Rey is now tied with Luke as my favorite Star Wars character (and thus my favorite fictional character, because Star Wars is the best).

I got a lot of the things I wanted out of this movie. I remember going in saying to my brother that Snoke is just the worst-designed character ever and anything they do with him will bug me, and the best thing they can do is kill him off as soon as possible... I think that the fact that this happened shows that they're listening to fans.

I also really didn't want to see Rey turn to the Dark Side or have some sort of romance with Kylo (he's also just a little bit creepily older than her), and that didn't happen either.

I have to admit, I was dreading Luke's death. And they killed him off, like I thought they would. I thought it was plenty heroic, and a fitting death, but I think Luke deserves a Darth Maul style Deus-ex-machina rebirth.

The Finn/Rose storyline kinda fell flat because they didn't really get to do anything, but I still really liked Rose's character so I'm willing to forgive the storyline and let it go for what it was - a red-herring comic relief side-plot. There's tons of those in Star Wars. And in a way, it was kind of cool, because it showed that just because the heroes come up with some complicated plan doesn't mean it's always going to work.

I have to admit, Kylo is a really good villain as far as Star Wars goes. Star Wars doesn't usually develop the villains that much as characters, so he's already got way more character than any villain before. And I think that Hux is a better villain than people give him credit for, because a huge part of his character is being unctuous and deferring to his superiors to avoid getting Needa'd (or Ozzel'd, or whatever you want to call getting killed by an angry Sith lord).

There's more I could say, but I want to wrap this up with one of my favorite parts of the movie. Going in, I hated what a sell-out Porgs were. All those stupid Porg toys and whatnot. So I said, man wouldn't it be funny if in the actual movie, they're just Chewbacca snacks. And they were! Their numbers in the Falcon continually diminished throughout the movie, so they were just there to be snacks! Not sure why I enjoyed that so much...

And of course the starfighter scenes were awesome. May the Force be with you, Celestial Lizards. Don't let the haters get you down, I'm willing to bet this will still be the best-selling Star Wars film of all time.

I'm sure much of this has been said, but I'm too lazy to read it

I thought TLJ was good as a "standalone" action film. It had a very fun quality about it, and anyone who says Kylo and Rey's fight against the red guards isn't bad-*** is kidding themselves. It's a good use of twelve dollars.

My issues with it stem more from the fact that it's a Star Wars movie. It's supposed to fit in the saga; and moreover, I dislike the style of film-making it seems to cater to: the lazy, big budget action movie sort of filmmaking, rather than the ballsy, big reveal, crazy idea stuff that is a big part of Star Wars (for me).

Here are the things I thought were objectively bad about it, as a film, on its own:

• Poor pacing. The conflict moves in a very confused way. First it's a race, and then a marathon, and then there's a strange little side-quest in it, all while Rey's doing her thing . . . . Granted, this is true of Rogue One and ESB to some extent; but pacing was more consistently and obviously problematic here. While you're watching it through the first time, you keep thinking "is this the climax?" That's not a good sign.
• Extraneous plot details. Most of what happened ended up not mattering. This would be okay if either (a) it provides significant new character details or (b) it contributes fundamentally to the message of the film. I don't think either condition was satisfied with the trip to Canto, Poe's meaningless mutiny, or even the last stand on Crait. The casino planet gave us some insight into the workings of the galaxy, and the cynicism encountered there is definitely a fresh idea in Star Wars; but all that could have been brought about much more efficiently and effectively without stalling the pace of the movie. Poe just did nothing. He had a b-plot that went nowhere. It showed that he was a good guy, if a bit hot-headed. We knew this. It showed that the Admiral was a *****, but that was "retconned" later. And the battle on Crait . . . it was superfluous. If the Resistance had simply escaped, it would've been fine. There didn't need to be a battle.
• Logical inconsistencies. I'm okay with TIE Fighters making noise in space and all that other goofy Star Wars stuff. To some extent, I'm okay with the terribly-designed Resistance bombers. These things don't really take you out of the movie, and moreover, they make it more fun, more exciting. Reality is boring. But suspension of disbelief only goes so far, and it also has to be set up with actual details of how the world works. That's why you have lines like "flying through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops;" it gives you the idea that hyperspace is more than a plot device, but an actual part of the world. TLJ didn't do a good job with this stuff. Things like Rey's timeline, the crazy-*** hyperspace jump (which was cool, but still annoying), the battering ram cannon, and the fact that they were assaulting it without any weapons and then decided to run away instead of risking their lives . . . . these things take you out of the movie.

These are things that I didn't like because of what they entail for Star Wars as a whole:

• Failure at worldbuilding. It was okay during TFA; they had a lot to bite off, and we can go along with some handwaving. Where did the First Order come from? What is the Resistance really, and how is it distinct from the Republic? Who is Snoke? Who is Rey? The first movie set up a lot of questions, and this one did very little to answer them. It continued the handwave. This is a problem. IX has a lot of questions to answer, while also tying up a whole new story. You can also lump in some unresolved details here, like how Chewbacca seems to feel so little from Han's death (IMO) and R2 just . . . did nothing.
• Power creep. Yoda struggled to lift a metal beam off of Anakin and Obi-Wan. Rey, after 18 hours of training, was able to lift ten tons of rocks like it was nothing. R2-D2 was the plucky little droid who always managed to weld stuff up or hack a computer. BB-8 is able to fix anything, take anything, shoot dudes with slot machine coins. Chewbacca was the co-pilot. Now, he's pulling trickier maneuvers than Hand ever did. Palpatine could shoot lightning from his hands; Snoke can make you a puppet and read your mind. It felt like they'd lost all sense of subtelty.
• The Marvel brand of comedy. That's cheap jokes made to lighten the mood. It was fun and funny the first couple of times. Now, it's just obnoxious. Humor is a big part of Star Wars, but it's more a part of the characters than anything else. Han's sarcasm, Obi-Wan's dry wit, Leia's arrogant remarks . . . these all are part of the characters. The jokes made in VIII felt like the writers were making them, not the characters; everyone had the same sense of humor.
• Making films for the audience (and, similarly, leaning on other sources, like the comic books, as a crutch). The prequels were so much braver than the sequels are turning out to be. These movies asked: what is Star Wars? And then said: okay, let's do that to the max. But this leaves us with a strikingly uncreative outcome. It's a crowd-pleaser. They don't want to take risks and upset the thematic elements of the original films because that sells . They're willing to compromise the movie in order to make more money. They're also willing to leave the world-building and details to the comic books, again, because that sells. Poe's hyper-engine shows up offscreen for the first time; if you're just watching TLJ, you wonder what the **** just happened?
• It kinda felt disrespectful. It felt like the people making it didn't really know Star Wars; they just liked Star Wars. The six that Lucas did were told from the PoV of the droids, for example; these ones weren't. The power creep aspect also fits in here -- the Force is soooo STRONK now. Little details, like how hyperspace works, are completely discarded. I get tossing out the EU, but come on, Star Wars has an established background -- why aren't you drawing on that? Luke's arc didn't seem to fit at all what his character was (and even Mark Hammil says that). And the title drop! TWO title drops, as a matter of fact?! What the **** . . . no Star Wars has ever done that, and for good reason.

Edit--remembered another complaint. The score . Ya know that problem that Marvel movies have, where you can't remember a single song from any of them because the music is so generic? Looks like Disney's doing that to Star Wars too. And it's a shame. This is the first John Williams score that fell completely flat for me. Ep I had Duel of the Fates, II had some decent songs like the Zam Wessel chase scene, III had Battle of Heroes, IV had the main theme and binary sunset, V had Imperial March, VI had the Death Star assault . . . . This one felt "meh" in comparison.

9 minutes ago, LordFajubi said:

I can not like this quote enough. I am beyond sick of social equality white knighting when the point is invalid. You want females and minorities in lead rolls, great go for it. You want them strong characters with good development, sounds like a plan. So MAKE some strong female and minority characters. Don’t make them glaring stereotype jokes or turn white male characters into something else. It destroys all credibility of a socially superior cast when you switch things for the sake of haha take that white boys or make characters typical X walks into a bar jokes. Get some writers that can make good diverse characters or leave them the **** out, also stop stealing male white rolls , it walks a dangerous line between equality and superiority punishment for white dominated media. Sad and pathetic really, welcome to the ranks of the white devils because change for nothing more than percieved desearved punishment is pety and stupid.

Oh my god.
There's no lol big enough.

34 minutes ago, JJFDVORAK said:

My problems with the movie are:

1. Luke - the way he was handled overall. He takes his lightsaber from Rey and...chucks it over his shoulder? That is not a reaction anyone would have, for really any reason. Why would that be his reaction? It makes no sense. His lack of desire to train Rey makes sense for a different character, if that character believes what Luke is now supposed to believe (the Jedi should end because a student turned bad or whatever) but it makes no sense for the established character of Luke Skywalker. In the OT, Luke dedicated his life to the destruction of the Empire and the Darkside. Then Rey shows up, tells him in his absence that all that came back, and he is like, "Oh well" That's not believable. Finally, his death was unnecessary. They just wanted his story over so they could reimagine Star Wars however they want. We are supposed to be cool with that. I'm not.

2. Finn and Rose - In TFA, Finn was my favorite character. His defection from the First Order after a civilian massacre and his rescue of Poe for selfish reasons really gives him an "every man" thing that really works. Then he meets a beautiful girl and the rest of his actions in the whole movie are revolved around her(saying he was in the Resistance, volunteering to go to Starkiller Base, fighting Kylo In the forest) and that again makes him an "every man" TFA ends and he is injured, but arguably in love with Rey. He wakes up in TLJ and wants to know where Rey is(again motivated by a girl) and attempts to escape to get to her and instead meets Rose. Then he goes off on a mission for the Resistance and does nothing of importance the rest of the movie. The Canto Bight scene was a total waste of time. Then he fights Phasma and beats her, but it doesn't matter. Then he almost does something important, in blowing up the battering ram laser (that was kinda stupid in and of itself, but whatever) and then nope, he is saved by Rose and they share a super shoot awkward kiss that apparently makes Finn doubt his feelings Rey. Then later when Rey shows up, he looks at Rose and they kind of set up the scene for a future love triangle thing. That's unrealistic. Finn has done everything he's done for Rey. That's not going to change due to a little kiss.

3. The continuation of Disney's insistence on Diversity yet not really challenging stereotypes - Full Disclosure, I am a white male. That said, I am in no way racist or sexist and don't want this to come across that way, so please read this entire part before judging my intentions. When Disney bought Star Wars, they have pushed the universe from mostly white male characters, to a diverse cast of minorities and females(Finn, Rey, Poe, the entire cast of Rogue One, the crew of the Ghost, etc) and that's good as Star should be for everyone. That said, I would be lying if I didn't say it kinda bugs me that they haven't included new white male characters, except as bad guys.(Kylo Ren, General Hux, Director Krennic, etc) I wouldn't really care do much, except I have two sons. My best friend has two daughters and they have been Rey for Halloween for a couple of year now, so that is good, but my seven year old would like someone to be that is current (so Han Solo, and Luke are out). He even asked me why all the heros are girls. We we're watching Rebels at the time, but he mentioned Rey and Jynn. And I guess this isn't really about TLJ so much, except it just furthered this along instead of rectifying it. Additionally, even when Disney includes minorities, they keep them in their stereotypical roles. Finn, the black guy, is a low skilled worker(janitor) Why couldn't he have been a commander or weapons expert or something. Then Poe, the Hispanic, is a crack pilot, who is hot headed and doesn't follow orders and breaks the rules and eventually starts a mutany. Why couldn't he have been a model captain. And Rose, the Asian chick, is a expert in technology. Why couldn't she be something else. Disney adds these characters, but doesn't try to take them out of their societal boxes. It is really ashame and encourages stereotypical thinking.

4. Rey's parents being no one - I really hope Kylo was just lying to Rey. If her parents are no one, then one of the biggest mysteries from TFA was just thrown away for nothing.

5. Snoke's Death - What a waste of a character. He was supposed to have been this crazy powerful guy who turned Kylo to the dark side, but we get nothing and he dies right away like a punk. What a joke!

6. Tried to hard to add humor - most of the jokes felt very forced.

There is more, but most are minor not picks. I didn't really hate it, but I thought it could be alot better.

3. Funny you should mention sterotypes and rogue one because rogue one actually handled asian sterotypes really well. Also, the thing about stereotypes is they're generic enough to be applied in any situation even if they're not warranted. Poe is a hot head you say, because when faced with "I'm not telling you the plan, oh and we're abandoning ship" he decided "Let's try literally anything else!". Rose isn't an expert with technology, her task was guarding escape pods and something with pipes. We don't actually know if she could have gotten the sensor thinggy off line. Let's look at Finn, is his defection a sterotype because he steals a tiefighter to escape?

4. I'd rather her parents be no one then it be like in the EU where she's actually secret Fel, or a Kenobi or something else excessively contrived. But this is a matter of personal taste.

5: Hubris getting a big bad emperor killed? In a STAR WARS movie? That's never happened before! Except for, uh, the last emperor.

6. If you didn't laugh at the "holding for Hux" exchange then I don't know what to tell you. I know our theater lost it when Rey reached out literally.

out of all the issues i have with TLJ there is still 1 that is above them all and urks me endlessly.

Rey

The heck is with this new heroine is outright amazing at literally everything with NO FREAKING TRAINING while growing up in essentially nowhere as a scavanger? TFA i dismissed it because first movie woes but TLJ did nothing to improve her character, in fact it felt like they stiff-armed any possible development as "Nope, not relevant"

She still has absolutely no business being that powerful in the force.

For those haters... there are a lot of wonderful points here on why TLJ is a great movie. One more I’d like to add:

This is only the middle chapter of the trilogy. At this point on the original trio, we didn’t have a clue about Luke/Leia, barely new Vader was human, and couldn’t believe the father/son relationship. Also, zero back story to Palpatine and Jaba.

Be patient, the story isn’t complete yet.

Each to their own, and I'm sure they will try to retcon out of this now, using other media or the last movie, but for me the one reason I hate this movie was...

Luke's character.

Backstory - I realise now that I was too emotionally involved as a four year old in '77. My parents had just split up, Star Wars was my salvation. I saw it four times in the cinema. Luke was my hero and I was him every day, as I didn't want to be myself. My mother didn't actually let me see TESB as she was afraid that the Vader reveal would affect my relationship with my own Father.

Seeing Luke gaze distantly, but longingly, at Rey as she held out the saber at the end of TFA filled me with Joy. A 35 year wait was almost over...

It turned to dust when he threw the thing over his shoulder. It jarred me out of the fantasy fom the first moment, as it wasn't him. Anyone, but especially a Jedi master, would return it with grace. He would say something about not being able to accept it. But that callous disrespect. Nah..

Then attempting to kill an innocent in cold blood, and not just any innocent though, but his own nephew, was what said "no" inside of me. They will "explain" this, but the damage is done where I am concerned.

.....

I had no problem with the attempted ideas, nor most things that others are complaining about. But presenting Luke as a man with no grace, dignity, or respect, killed my love of Star Wars.

And yes, it is that bad for me. That four year old in me was crushed that night I saw this movie. But I grew up.... To be a five year old that loves the Goblin King from Lego Elves . A better villain than any in this trilogy.

41 minutes ago, Larky Bobble said:

I had no problem with the attempted ideas, nor most things that others are complaining about. But presenting Luke as a man with no grace, dignity, or respect, killed my love of Star Wars.

We clearly didnt watch the same movie. Luke has more grace then anyone, and a statement otherwise is absurd. Its also the point of Snoke's death demonstrating how violent he is murdered and how peaceful Luke's oneness with the force is.

He drinks milk out of a green boob, have you ever drank milk straight out a cow's udder? I think you'll find real life monk's lives are far more benal and dealing with stuff like that then one would assume, especially since monks have to do everything themselves.

Of all the complaints i've heard this is the most absurd and detached from any sense of reality. People want Luke to somehow be more then a man, the movie starts off with him as a jedi master in rough place to fulfilling legendary status at the end when he "takes on the whole First Order with a laser sword" and one ups Kylo.

Absurd to you, fine. Let's agree to disagree. Throwing the saber was the opposite of all those qualities I mentioned, and he did nothing to redeem himself until the end. He just moaned, walked away and made Rey go through unnecesary motions in order to get him to engage with anyone apart from his own misery.

The milk scene was irrelevant to his portrayal of temprament. Yes, he lived on a cold windswept island, drinking the local ambrosia, but "who are you?" is not a graceful way to meet and greet anyone. Uncouth and monks are not synonymous terms.

The ending was relatively good, if stupid, and mollified me slightly, but I was emotionally detatched from it at that point.

I left the cinema depressed. I am happy that many people enjoyed the movie, especially my daughter, but it killed me emotionally. I'll go back to Ep.9 for her, where I expect to find Abrams doing a relatively decent job of showing a galaxy in chaos as a new form of balance emerges. I'm starting to think he gave Johnson the push to write this the way he did, knowing the flak from certain quarters would fall on the patsy's shoulders and he could ride back for the glorious end.

12 hours ago, Celestial Lizards said:

Ok, I just read about a petition to remove TLJ from canon. How ridiculous is that? But it made me think: "why do people hate this movie so much?"

Some things I get: Canto Bight and the Leia scene.

But how can you dislike Holdo ramming the Supremacy (there's a theory that she didnt actually ram it, but Luke's saber splitting apart tore up the ships)? That was visually impressive and just a great scene!

This video sort explained it:

Please tell me, because I honestly want to know: why do so many people hate such an amazing movie?

normally the films make coherent sense and theres dumb moments. Last jedi was start-to-finish stupid poorly written garbage with 1 or 2 cool moments.

consider that the primary plot point is a chase scene between a large hyperspace capable fleet and a 4 thruster powered ships.

now consider that again.

also, the empire had hyperspace trackers in both SW:Rebels and SW:ANH, so pretending that was a shocker was dumb. the movie just went downhill from there

9 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

In terms of First Order weaponry and tactics.... Kylo killed the ability of the Resistance to offer a fighter screen. Why did they need to pull back their fighters “we can’t cover you that far away” when there was nothing to cover them from? Rather than let the big ships pot shot at the ships at range I’d have sent in all the SFs with missiles and gone all in on shredding the unarmed cruiser.

The way I thought of that is if they deployed their fighters, and the rebels jumped, they'd have to recall the fighters and wait for them to successfully land before they could jump in pursuit. It would give the rebels a chance to escape that they couldn't afford. Much better to be "jump ready" and attack at range than risk a killshot-or-bust fighter deployment.

9 hours ago, Hawkstrike said:

(2) Plot logic. This is one of two areas where the movie breaks down for me personally -- when events don't make particular logical sense (the "why didn't they just hyperspace ahead of the Rebels", etc)

I keep reading that point but it makes no sense to me. Is micro-jumping a thing? I've never heard of it. Why should we assume this is a possibility--especially as one of the criticisms of the movie is it diverges from established Star Wars ideas.

The only precedent that suggests that maaaaybe this could happen is Han Solo's 2 lightspeed jumps in TFA. But:

1) Han Solo did the Kessel Run in a record setting number of parsecs so he's established as one of, if not the very best, hyperspace navigator.

2) Han Solo is known for having an incredible degree of luck (or perhaps he makes his own).

3) His first TFA jump off the barge is an act of desperation that he says he doesn't know will work; and doesn't have a destination in mind--much less one relative to a moving target.

4) His second jump nearly ends with them getting pasted into the side of a mountain except...(see points 1 and 2)

5) Jumping a small freighter with a custom and illegal hyperdrive is almost certainly different than jumping a star destroyer sized ship.

The argument is essentially: "Why didn't the first order just do a thing I made up?" Or alternatively: "This movie disregards too much star wars lore, it would have been better if they disregarded more of it."

It is the most asinine and contrived gripe with the film.

Because some people can’t let go of the old expanded universe. To which I say, let the past die - kill it if you have to. Remember, the old EU brought us Skippy the Jedi Droid, Jaxxon, the Yuuzhan Vong and other classics.

19 minutes ago, Sekac said:

The way I thought of that is if they deployed their fighters, and the rebels jumped, they'd have to recall the fighters and wait for them to successfully land before they could jump in pursuit. It would give the rebels a chance to escape that they couldn't afford. Much better to be "jump ready" and attack at range than risk a killshot-or-bust fighter deployment.

I keep reading that point but it makes no sense to me. Is micro-jumping a thing? I've never heard of it. Why should we assume this is a possibility--especially as one of the criticisms of the movie is it diverges from established Star Wars ideas.

The only precedent that suggests that maaaaybe this could happen is Han Solo's 2 lightspeed jumps in TFA. But:

1) Han Solo did the Kessel Run in a record setting number of parsecs so he's established as one of, if not the very best, hyperspace navigator.

2) Han Solo is known for having an incredible degree of luck (or perhaps he makes his own).

3) His first TFA jump off the barge is an act of desperation that he says he doesn't know will work; and doesn't have a destination in mind--much less one relative to a moving target.

4) His second jump nearly ends with them getting pasted into the side of a mountain except...(see points 1 and 2)

5) Jumping a small freighter with a custom and illegal hyperdrive is almost certainly different than jumping a star destroyer sized ship.

The argument is essentially: "Why didn't the first order just do a thing I made up?" Or alternatively: "This movie disregards too much star wars lore, it would have been better if they disregarded more of it."

It is the most asinine and contrived gripe with the film.

Rey had no problem in jumping right next to Snoke's ship with the Falcon. Finn and Rose had no problem with with precision jumping when getting back from casino planet either. So what is the reason for First Order ships to not to jump ahead of the Resistance fleet other than "plot"?

10 minutes ago, Revanxv said:

Rey had no problem in jumping right next to Snoke's ship with the Falcon. Finn and Rose had no problem with with precision jumping when getting back from casino planet either. So what is the reason for First Order ships to not to jump ahead of the Resistance fleet other than "plot"?

Because that would require jumping from within the system to another point within the system. We don't know if they can do that in Star Wars as we've only every seen ships, such as you mentioned, jump between separate star systems.

Just now, Forresto said:

Because that would require jumping from within the system to another point within the system.

We've only every seen ships, such as you mentioned, jump between separate star systems.

Sooo, again, why not just make two jumps, one out of the system and other back into it. There's no reason for not doing it, other than that it would not be convenient to the plot.

Because their hyperspace tracker doesn't work while in hyperspace.... at least, that answer seems plausible, right?