12 hours ago, Hobojebus said:

Know what would of made more sense luke turning up saving finn then facing off against kylo, the door being breached made no difference in the end at all did it.

WOULD'VE, DUDE. IT'S A CONTRACTION. Aren't you well into your thirties? Why is an unemployed millennial trying to point your grammar in the right direction!?

9 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

WOULD'VE, DUDE. IT'S A CONTRACTION. Aren't you well into your thirties? Why is an unemployed millennial trying to point your grammar in the right direction!?

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Isn't the 90's the cut off for being a milenial, pretty sure none of the worst generation are in their 30's yet.

s/yet/any more

So... let's talk about Poe.

Poe's first real action in the entire movie is to get 2/3 of the Rebel fleet killed in direct violation of Leia's orders. Her last official act as general before getting spaced is to demote him. Holdo tells him to stop being a moron and follow orders, since he just got demoted for not following orders. He then develops a half-cocked plan with the help of Finn and Rose to try to disable the Active Tracker on the "lead ship" (a.k.a. the breaker box on NOT the Supremacy, since that wasn't even in the system when they were followed, but okay, we'll just ignore that it magically became the actual device on the big giant ship for no reason). He then leads a mutiny that wastes precious time and energy as the Resistance is getting ready to escape to Crait. Leia wakes up from a near-death experience, and the first thing she has to do is put down Poe's mutiny.

So our "strong female characters" that have just watched this man violate their direct orders, get everybody killed (don't worry, he's about to do it again!), lead a mutiny against the commanding officer of the Resistance, affectionately touch his chiseled jaw and declare that "This one's trouble... I like him." Hold up. So apparently they weren't actually trying to get him to fall in line and act like a piece of a military machine. Apparently this was all to teach him a lesson? If so, Holdo needlessly risked the life of everybody on board with terrible leadership. If not, and Holdo-the-badass-Vice-Admiral is actually the tough military veteran we've been told, apparently the way to get away with getting everybody killed, leading a mutiny, ruining op security (we'll get to that), etc. is to BE A HANDSOME MAN. Wow, what an awesome, pro-women-in-power message, Disney!

Okay. So they get loaded onto transports and start heading toward the surface. Here, Poe's utter incompetence becomes complete. Due to his complete lack of opsec, a random dude from the casino is able to sell out 90% of the remaining Resistance personnel, and pretty much everybody gets killed. Again. For the second time in 24 hours. It's directly Poe, Finn, and Rose's faults. Finn and Rose come back (another 3-5 people die to the incoming TIE/fo shots, hilariously/morbidly). There's some definite downtime in there for a quick debrief on what the **** happened, so at this point there should at least be a general indication of why all of their transports got discovered and blown up.

So at this point, Poe is a traitor that is directly responsible for 95% of everybody's friends and colleagues getting killed across two separate instances in 24 hours. But it's all okay, because he figures out that Luke is stalling to give them time (why Luke didn't tell literally anyone his plan to stall before going outside is another example of stellar plot writing), and begins trying to lead everyone out of the cave. Everybody, understandably, turns to Leia, because she's in charge and Poe's a freakin' traitor whose only major decisions in the last 24 hours have gotten everybody killed, and she seems utterly confused by their turning to her and tells them to follow Poe. You sure know how to pick 'em, Leia.

TL;DR: Getting everybody needlessly killed as a direct result of your actions and leading a mutiny against your commanding officer is fine as long as you're handsome.

Poe screwed up massively in the opening.

Holdo screwed up massively leading to the mutiny.

All it would have taken to avert that whole screwup was a 30 second conversation.

It's not fine that Poe got people killed, but what's the Resistance going to do? Shove him out of the airlock? We already know he's an amazing pilot who is vital to the Resistance. He's the last of Blue Squadron! They need him on the Raddus, and they will need him when rebuilding the Resistance, they just put him in a corner for a while so the rational adults in the room can make decisions. Leia and Holdo know why Poe staged a mutiny. They know what he wants. And they also know that he is the most skilled fighter pilot in the galaxy. They can't just kill him!

2 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Poe screwed up massively in the opening.

Holdo screwed up massively leading to the mutiny.

All it would have taken to avert that whole screwup was a 30 second conversation.

No they had that he directly asked what the plan was and for no good reason she kept it to herself.

10 minutes ago, Celestial Lizards said:

It's not fine that Poe got people killed, but what's the Resistance going to do? Shove him out of the airlock? We already know he's an amazing pilot who is vital to the Resistance. He's the last of Blue Squadron! They need him on the Raddus, and they will need him when rebuilding the Resistance, they just put him in a corner for a while so the rational adults in the room can make decisions. Leia and Holdo know why Poe staged a mutiny. They know what he wants. And they also know that he is the most skilled fighter pilot in the galaxy. They can't just kill him!

This is utter contrivance, though. He literally demonstrates, three times, that he is far more dangerous than beneficial at this moment in time. And even if they "need him," they sure as heck don't need him in any position of power. It's godawful writing.

If only there was some real world equivalent that shows is how a military treats mutineers...

24 minutes ago, Hobojebus said:

No they had that he directly asked what the plan was and for no good reason she kept it to herself.

Yes the 30 second conversation would have been the one where she didn't do that because it was dumb. Holdo's screwup was entirely on the writers, it's probably the most annoying part of the film for me. It's baffling as to why they had her keep it a secret, there's no good reason for that that I can see or that i've ever seen anyone propose.

That more than anything else in the film IMO is just Bad Writing.

Don't forget down both wrote and directed.

3 hours ago, Hobojebus said:

Isn't the 90's the cut off for being a milenial, pretty sure none of the worst generation are in their 30's yet.

Boomers are much older than 30.

The whole movement is down to a dozen transports. Don't kill your best pilot when you can set phasers to stun.

This is my fix to the movie:

Lei uses the force grab onto something to keep herself from being sucked out into space.

Luke Suprises and shows up with Snoke, Rey, and Kylo on the ship. Luke states, from the moment she arrived I sensed you were using her snoke, I let you think you had the advantage, but I was in control the entire time. Explains his attitude completely. Luke and snoke fight, luke kills snoke. While the guard fight Kylo and Rey. Then, during the fight Kylo kills luke, at the the very end of it using the guard fight as a distraction and luke lettign his guard down to Kylo.

Rose should have said when she saw the dog horses" Wow I used to ride them all the time back when I young" This makes you believe she might be able to ride them through the town with all the dangers. But instead she says "I saw them in books, but seeing them in person is great!" GaG - How can she ride an animal she never rode before, through all the crazy stuff, people, and other obstacles. She admitted she had no experience! Why!

Honestly, that entire rich persons are bad scene didn't need to be in the movie, but I get disney catering towards the people that feel that way.

Remove this: The way Poe stalled in the beginning: Are you kidding me? Hux is a complete moron. Really? why even take his call. You know this is Poe, the best ace in the Rebels, just fire don't even talk. Your Orders are to wipe out the resistance, not capture. Why would you talk?. Change it to something a little more believable or remove it.

Humor was ok. But Too much! And too much stupid current humor. Not Yo mommy jokes. Jokes for the star wars universe fine!

Hyperspace Death destroying all empire ships. To be able to time that perfectly is just not believable to me. Maybe she could have killed one or two of the ship, but all of them. Don't see it. Killing the main one would have been fine as it could have been a distraction to allow enough time for all the rebel shuttles to land.

2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Poe screwed up massively in the opening.

Holdo screwed up massively leading to the mutiny.

All it would have taken to avert that whole screwup was a 30 second conversation.

Holdo screwed up how? She’s the freaking Admiral in charge. She needed to tell Poe Nothing of his plan.

He’s a hot headed man-splainer.(But I love him ?)

5 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

Holdo screwed up how? She’s the freaking Admiral in charge. She needed to tell Poe Nothing of his plan.

He’s a hot headed man-splainer.(But I love him ?)

Just cause you like the actor, doesn't mean it wasn't a stupid plan. The person that wrote this has almost know experience as a leader, and you can tell that. You as a admiral must know your men strengths and abilities. Poe is impulsive and you know that. You know that by keeping him out of the loop, he is bound to do something Impulsive. You also know he is honest and will never give up any knowledge you give him. So you tell him, and he is fine. Of course that cancels out all the useless finn and rose stuff, about protecting animals and rich people being mean. But you can fit that in another way, since you have to to appease the masses that like that BS.

1 minute ago, BlodVargarna said:

Holdo screwed up how? She’s the freaking Admiral in charge. She needed to tell Poe Nothing of his plan.

He’s a hot headed man-splainer.(But I love him ?)

Poe's mutiny is a direct result of Holdo's poor leadership.

You do not dress down one of your officers publicly like she did in front of other officers and enlisted on the bridge, even if they deserve it. That undermines their ability to lead, which she needed, and damages morale of everyone present. She should have handled that in private. Personally, I think Poe should have been in the brig before that moment, but that's a failure of Leia's.

Holdo failed to demonstrate the ability to lead her officers. There are a hundred of ways she could have maintained Commander Captain Dameron's loyalty without giving away full information of what the plan was, however she dismissed him entirely and insultingly. Considering Dameron is responsible for the lives of pilots under his command, he had to take action to relieve the Vice Admiral of hers.

5 hours ago, Hobojebus said:

Isn't the 90's the cut off for being a milenial, pretty sure none of the worst generation are in their 30's yet.

Hey, Poe is just looking out for his career. He was busted from Commander to Captain so he has to make sure that anybody above him is out of the picture so that being a Captain is pretty much being a Commander. Heck, if it weren't for Leia's magic space powers, he'd be in charge of the Resistance/Rebels.

Is Poe the new Darth Jar Jar?

1 hour ago, kris40k said:

Poe's mutiny is a direct result of Holdo's poor leadership.

You do not dress down one of your officers publicly like she did in front of other officers and enlisted on the bridge, even if they deserve it. That undermines their ability to lead, which she needed, and damages morale of everyone present. She should have handled that in private. Personally, I think Poe should have been in the brig before that moment, but that's a failure of Leia's.

Holdo failed to demonstrate the ability to lead her officers. There are a hundred of ways she could have maintained Commander Captain Dameron's loyalty without giving away full information of what the plan was, however she dismissed him entirely and insultingly. Considering Dameron is responsible for the lives of pilots under his command, he had to take action to relieve the Vice Admiral of hers.

What's really stupid is it's not like denying this information would stop a spy because the spy would end up on the transports as well and given the FO's accuracy could be confident his ship wouldn't be hit, we see the pilot talking to holdo so there was no coms blackout.

She didn't tell him because she had to put the man in his place, doing so killed the resistence.

Instead of promoting female power it made them look incompetent.

2 hours ago, kris40k said:

Poe's mutiny is a direct result of Holdo's poor leadership.

You do not dress down one of your officers publicly like she did in front of other officers and enlisted on the bridge, even if they deserve it. That undermines their ability to lead, which she needed, and damages morale of everyone present. She should have handled that in private. Personally, I think Poe should have been in the brig before that moment, but that's a failure of Leia's.

Holdo failed to demonstrate the ability to lead her officers. There are a hundred of ways she could have maintained Commander Captain Dameron's loyalty without giving away full information of what the plan was, however she dismissed him entirely and insultingly. Considering Dameron is responsible for the lives of pilots under his command, he had to take action to relieve the Vice Admiral of hers.

I’m going to talk to my friend who recently retired with the rank of commander from the USN to see what his reaction to Holdo/Poe is.

I would say that if you look for a competent chain of command you should look to the guys that are an actual army and not to the ragtag band of lovable misfits, but then the first order are morons, so...

No revolution has ever succeeded without a proper chain of command, in a fight a clear line of leadership is vital to keep discapline.

If three different people try to take charge when the leaders killed the squabbling will get your whole force killed.

And Poe wouldn't have mutinied if he knew the plan and was helping to enact it...