So I got to play a 200pt epic game the other night and decided to run a 53 point C-ROC.

Maul

Latts Razzi

Zuckus

Automated Protocols

HLT

Merchant 1

It's just plain stupid. Once it joins the fray it jams a ship and uses reenforce/Latts to Mitigate damage while throwing insane damage. I was up against a Tie swarm and my opponent had to choose to go after the 53 point ship early and ignore 147 points of nasty (the rest of my list). or ignore the C-ROC. By the end he was down to a palp shuttle and 3 ties and we both realized his ties realistically could actually do anything to my ship. at best they could take a range 1 shot with a focus and at best hope to do 1 damage, meanwhile this monster was pulling a tie off the board every round it was in range. After the game we talked about how this combo of Maul, Zuckus, and Latts will never be faq'd since no one really pays attention to epic. I was just curious if anyone else has tried this combo or any other broken combos involving epic ships?

Yeah you pretty much nailed it.

However I still don’t think its as bad as my missile-boat Raider with 3x Harpoon missiles and Thug Droids.

Someone needs to do their version of 2.0 for epic.

Any volunteers?

So, you Zuckuss all their dice, cuz you don't get stress right?

And then Maul all your dice cuz no stress right?

Latts is just for randomly blocking 1 damage?

Maul + Zuckuss seems great, but Latts only does naything if they're kind enough to stress themselves for you. Even with reinforce they should be able to get some damage through even without range 1 shots. And they should be splitting up to be able to shoot more than 1 sectino so you can't reinforce against it all...

Their just rubber shoes, they ain’t that ridiculous...

In my first epic game, we left the huge ships to the end, because they weren't being particularly dangerous. And we discovered that a Gozanti and a Rebel Transport couldn't damage one another (double reinforce effect on Bright Hope, plus Backup Shield Generator negate the wimpy Goz turret) except by ramming - which would have taken ages to achieve.

Now, I usually go for the huge ship first. The C-ROC is small beer, try a Maul-powered CR90: it can delete low agility ships at range 5, averaging 13 damage per round after Reinforce...and still dies to concentrated short-range fire from fighters.

Edit: you do realise that a Reinforce only applies to one end of the huge ship per round?

4 hours ago, Bigocto said:

this combo of Maul, Zuckus, and Latts will never be faq'd since no one really pays attention to epic.

Sadly very true. We’re considering our own errata to inject some balance in. One idea is that huge ships get ion tokens (or maybe just 1) instead of stress tokens when using these cards.

Maul is fine on the C-Roc. A ship that costs that much should have an accurate shot. However, CR-90 that can shoot a billion times, yes it’s broken.

In my opinion, who cares though? Like every time my friend and I play Team Epic, our goal is to find the most broken combos. That’s like the joy of playing a new format. Everything is so new once again and trying to find it is half the fun. By round 3 of a Team Epic Tournament you’re done with Epic for quite awhile...

I just have my control Raider and a swarm and I'm good.

Rough Tantive build ...A variant of this Tantive build can basically destroy the front end of Raider in one combat round. You can build it with rerolls and use tesekus focus... That was a waist of time setting that game up.

They already fixed epic. It’s called Armada.

*waves*

So I’m the opponent from that game, and let me tell you that yes it was brutal.

I will admit I messed up some target priority dealing with his small bases, could have possibly saved a few more ties to try and punch damage through.

But even without that between reinforce and jam even if id totally alpha’d his Mix of harpoon kiraxs, lok, xisor and Quinn, I don’t think I’d have been able to punch enough damage through for him to not stress and recover from while picking off a tie a turn.

The only thing I could say otherwise is that while it’s a lot of modification to punch through, it may fold to a more optimized list. Was running a thematic black squadron led by swarm leader vader, palp shuttle, debris gambit youngster and then howl+6 black cracks

8 hours ago, Force Majeure said:

Someone needs to do their version of 2.0 for epic.

Any volunteers?

I volunteer to participate as one of the developers of the 2.0 epic faq.

It’s so damned energy efficient too, that’s what gets me!

I don’t think Epic needs a 2.0. It just needs a ban list for crew.

1 hour ago, Estarriol said:

It’s so damned energy efficient too, that’s what gets me!

They royally screwed up Epic by making so many good upgrades not require energy use (i.e. the thing that makes Epic Epic). Lookin' at you Ordnance Tubes...

10 hours ago, Force Majeure said:

Someone needs to do their version of 2.0 for epic.

Any volunteers?

I'm still working on standard 100/6 first!

8 hours ago, Gilarius said:

In my first epic game, we left the huge ships to the end, because they weren't being particularly dangerous. And we discovered that a Gozanti and a Rebel Transport couldn't damage one another (double reinforce effect on Bright Hope, plus Backup Shield Generator negate the wimpy Goz turret) except by ramming - which would have taken ages to achieve.

Now, I usually go for the huge ship first. The C-ROC is small beer, try a Maul-powered CR90: it can delete low agility ships at range 5, averaging 13 damage per round after Reinforce...and still dies to concentrated short-range fire from fighters.

Edit: you do realise that a Reinforce only applies to one end of the huge ship per round?

This

...get in at their sides in mass and obliterate (with crits) the end not reinforced....Ties at +1 PS of the Epic in play with decimate one end uber fast.

9 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

Maul + Zuckuss seems great, but Latts only does naything if they're kind enough to stress themselves for you. Even with reinforce they should be able to get some damage through even without range 1 shots. And they should be splitting up to be able to shoot more than 1 sectino so you can't reinforce against it all...

Since you have modifiers on attack u spend ur first action jamming anyone range 1-2. Stress the biggest threat but 2 stress a turn adds up. Especially if ur staying to the outside and using that turret. If they focus on the C-ROC, fine, it’s. 53 pt ship they have to focus on while ignoring 147pts (247 in a reg epic). Jamming is a good action, jamming with Latts Razzi is just broken.

7 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

This

...get in at their sides in mass and obliterate (with crits) the end not reinforced....Ties at +1 PS of the Epic in play with decimate one end uber fast.

Oh yeah but turn their whole swarm on 1 53 pt ship and ignore the harpoons coming from the other side? Also the weird “use arc to determine front and back ends up helping the ship since re forcing the rear is way better. That’s the big thing. The ship itself is good but at the price of a decimator? It’s too good to be ignored, it’s too cheap to focus your entire list on.

I am really not understanding how anyone can have problems burning down a C-ROC?

It has almost no manoeuvrability so you know where it will be; if you have a ship at the rear, the C-ROC can't shoot it; coupled with another ship at the front, at least one gets to shoot at an unreinforced section. The C-ROC dies within 3 rounds, although if you only have lowly Tie Fighters it might take a round or 2 more.

Meanwhile the rest of your fleet takes on the rest of your opponent's, if you want. Personally, I'd spend 1 round focussing fire on it with more ships, killing it, and then take on the rest.

16 minutes ago, Gilarius said:

I am really not understanding how anyone can have problems burning down a C-ROC?

It has almost no manoeuvrability so you know where it will be; if you have a ship at the rear, the C-ROC can't shoot it; coupled with another ship at the front, at least one gets to shoot at an unreinforced section. The C-ROC dies within 3 rounds, although if you only have lowly Tie Fighters it might take a round or 2 more.

Meanwhile the rest of your fleet takes on the rest of your opponent's, if you want. Personally, I'd spend 1 round focussing fire on it with more ships, killing it, and then take on the rest.

This.

Part of the problem is you're running a 200 pt game, which is not standard for Epic. At 200 pts the C-ROC's effect on the battle is more pronounced. Play a normal 300 pt game and you'll find that one attack isn't that crazy.

10 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Their just rubber shoes, they ain’t that ridiculous...

Pair that with some socks and see the magic

15 minutes ago, defkhan1 said:

Part of the problem is you're running a 200 pt game, which is not standard for Epic. At 200 pts the C-ROC's effect on the battle is more pronounced. Play a normal 300 pt game and you'll find that one attack isn't that crazy.

I was just going to post this. At 300 points a generic swarm and additional heavy hitters can make a lot more happen on the battlefield and can effectively focus the C-ROC down.