3 minutes ago, sf1raptor said:

Hum....

EPT: Unshakable

After performing an attack, if the attack misses, you may remove one condition card.

2 Points.

As we found out yeasterday, Harpoon is only bad if there’s follow-up shots from your squad, without those, it’s condition is Action removable.....so this wouldn’t be the end-all of the condition; and Kylo would weep.

7 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

As we found out yeasterday, Harpoon is only bad if there’s follow-up shots from your squad, without those, it’s condition is Action removable.....so this wouldn’t be the end-all of the condition; and Kylo would weep.

Ok. I see what ya mean.

Black One title on PS11 Poe can help mitigate against Imperial high PS alpha. Just remember to bring a decent bid. Hotshot co-pilot maybe with Baze can take out focus tokens against Deadeye harpoons too.

3 hours ago, Estarriol said:

Harpoon on rebel Nym is no worse than on Vader, Quickdraw, or anything with Longrange scanners.

Uh, if you look at the image I‘ve shown, Nym+Harpoon has almost +20% additive difference on VaderHarpoons, Nym gets +15% and Vader - few percent

I would feel better if Harpoons required you to spend your TL, limiting your ability to modify dice on the shot itself. They're a pretty solid example of power creep, but I don't see them as being insanely broken. They do force the opponent to fly their list differently, for sure.

On 12/23/2017 at 7:59 PM, dsul413 said:

I would feel better if Harpoons required you to spend your TL, limiting your ability to modify dice on the shot itself. They're a pretty solid example of power creep, but I don't see them as being insanely broken. They do force the opponent to fly their list differently, for sure.

Sure. But if you have 10 different missiles to choose and you always take the same one, then game design is bad or unbalanced. There is no need to take other missiles anymore. Overpowered/underpriced joke

It should be a 2 Red attack for the cost and mods to go along with that condition. Limits it to hitting low agility or lucky hits on high and curbs the huge spike alpha.

I'd call them a necessary evil, personally. They're one of the few things Azitucks fear. Still, it's unfortunate they have such a negative impact on jousting formations.

48 minutes ago, Squark said:

I'd call them a necessary evil, personally. They're one of the few things Azitucks fear. Still, it's unfortunate they have such a negative impact on jousting formations.

This .

Designs of the same basic time period are clear internal balance as they design and test.....

On Tuesday, December 26, 2017 at 6:34 PM, Squark said:

Still, it's unfortunate they have such a negative impact on jousting formations.

This.

And Epic ships are chanceless against them (and cruise missiles as well).

On ‎12‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 11:23 AM, clanofwolves said:

This .

Designs of the same basic time period are clear internal balance as they design and test.....

But what's a counter to Harpoons?

1 hour ago, Boba Rick said:

But what's a counter to Harpoons?

Staying out of arc, range control to R1 or R3 for Thrusters, countermeasures, black one, Palp, evade or focus tokens used on defense, blinded pilot crits, absurd amounts of health, against Gunboats getting behind them, shoot first, take 3+ ships that can fly in spread out formations. There are ways to deal with every factions version of High PS and Low PS Harpoon lists.

Most of it centers around trying to stay out of arc or at least one arc.

Oh.....almost forgot.....definitely don't fly 2 ship low agility high hp kite type turret lists unless the plan is to hide behind a Rock and Mine wall and final salvo.

Them 2 ship turret kits auto-dumpster a ton of things still but any decent harpoon list burns them with fire in about 2 rounds.

Harpoon Missiles should have simply been errataed Assault Missiles, allowing you to keep your TL. The worst thing about Harpoon Missiles is the ridiculously complex (and yet still stupid) condition.

Second worst is that they yet again encourage PS wars.

I've been able to do fine against my friend's testing of his harpoon lists. Usually 1-2 Scurrg Bomber(s) and a third ship. The first week we played I only took two hits from the missiles (with one splashing us both for damage when the ship died) and the second week I got better at predicting the bombers and only got hit once and that ship died on impact anyways.

I like it when ships load up with missiles and go after the missile plan, as it allows for arc-dodging again. My Rebel list with Dash loved it, and my for-fun Scum list handled it well too. Scurrg are definitely SOBs since they can trigger a crit with the Guidance Chips, but I think that's an argument for Guidance Chips and not the missiles.

Jabba list

Dash list

52 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Oh.....almost forgot.....definitely don't fly 2 ship low agility high hp kite type turret lists unless the plan is to hide behind a Rock and Mine wall and final salvo.

Them 2 ship turret kits auto-dumpster a ton of things still but any decent harpoon list burns them with fire in about 2 rounds.

Yeah people fly those horrors then whine when they get stomped by harpoons. ?

17 hours ago, Boba Rick said:

But what's a counter to Harpoons?

My comment Boba, was in my layman’s understanding of FFGs design process. I think they knew Tuck’s were gonna be a tough new cookie and they always had this splash missile lovingly set aside each Wave as a possible. So with this in mind, they looked at the splash missile concept as the thing that allowed other squads to break the new Lowhhrick dance as one encourages range one and this discourages it, ie balance? Now I don’t believe their design testing is terribly thorough mind you; but I do believe they have a fairly solid balancing desire and concept even; at least within the ships that are hammered out during the same half to three-quarters year let’s say; beyond that, it gets fuzzy as they are sadly only human, and have lots on their proverbial plates.

17 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Most of it centers around trying to stay out of arc or at least one arc .

Anything, even these uber-missiles, if they encourage actual great flying to be a real thing again, are actually good for the heart of the game.

50 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

Anything, even these uber-missiles, if they encourage actual great flying to be a real thing again, are actually good for the heart of the game.

You might be right. Countermeasures, Black One, Wes, the Miranda/Lowhhrick/Strezzra build, Rebel Regen seems to be the current "easy mode" counters. Most builds with PS alpha strike 3 Poons are going to see these as the opposing squads.

Perhaps this is more of a Wargames WOPR conundrum; The best solution is not to play...their game. Gone are the days of generic swarms and formation flying in general. No more starting in range one formation. Bait and switch. Have ships that shoot first at PS5+ to beat out Gunship generics and Lok Revenants. Always have at least 1 blocker in your squad. But 3 small ship aces WITHOUT munitions...those days are long gone as long as the harpoon is around.

You know, I'm wondering if going with Vectored Thrusters on Poe instead of Autothrusters might be useful for getting rid of TLs. I would only do it if he had Advanced Optics and someone to coordinate him.

Nah he needs As to not die. BB8 is how you use both halves of the title in the same round.

Call me crazy, but Harpoons are growing on me. I actually really like the meta they've spawned.

You have a few categories of ships:

1.) Low PS Harpoon Carriers: Tough enough to take a hit and nasty enough that nobody wants to land in their arc. There's a minor PS contest between these guys. Usually have some movement limitations. (Example: Gunboat, Kimogila)

2.) Turrets: get mauled by Harpoons, and have modest attack compared to category 1, but have a turret so they can be more flexible in movement. (Example: Decimator, Han Solo)

3.) Aces: get mauled by Harpoons, but have the mobility to get out of the way of some of them. Modest attacks, but good maneuverability and defense to get the most out of them. (Example: Poe, Kylo)

4.) High PS Jousters: These ships either have huge innate attack or carry Harpoons themselves. They usually have better maneuverability and PS than Category 1, but at the cost of points. (Example: Quickdraw, Rey)

These different groups all have interesting interplay between each other. Also, the power of the Harpoon drives PS up, which helps generics, who aren't bidding on PS. It helps reduce the raw jousting power of aces when there's a PS war. Add in generic, accessible action efficiency cards like Flight Assist Astromech and Advanced Optics, and its a pretty interesting metagame.

Personally I quite like Harpoons and the current meta they're creating. I don't think they're overpowered, at least not any more than a couple of dozen other things in the game are.

1 hour ago, Biophysical said:

Call me crazy, but Harpoons are growing on me. I actually really like the meta they've spawned.

You have a few categories of ships:

1.) Low PS Harpoon Carriers: Tough enough to take a hit and nasty enough that nobody wants to land in their arc. There's a minor PS contest between these guys. Usually have some movement limitations. (Example: Gunboat, Kimogila)

2.) Turrets: get mauled by Harpoons, and have modest attack compared to category 1, but have a turret so they can be more flexible in movement. (Example: Decimator, Han Solo)

3.) Aces: get mauled by Harpoons, but have the mobility to get out of the way of some of them. Modest attacks, but good maneuverability and defense to get the most out of them. (Example: Poe, Kylo)

4.) High PS Jousters: These ships either have huge innate attack or carry Harpoons themselves. They usually have better maneuverability and PS than Category 1, but at the cost of points. (Example: Quickdraw, Rey)

These different groups all have interesting interplay between each other. Also, the power of the Harpoon drives PS up, which helps generics, who aren't bidding on PS. It helps reduce the raw jousting power of aces when there's a PS war. Add in generic, accessible action efficiency cards like Flight Assist Astromech and Advanced Optics, and its a pretty interesting metagame.

Yeah. I'm actually kind of enjoying it. The extra conditions are kinda interesting. The problem is the complexity.

I'm kind of glad theyre not buffed assault missiles. Those aren't fun. They're destructive.

I would still remove them from the game though in a heartbeat.

Official poll: Should harpoons be removed from the game?

Yes

No

Other

Other.

Make the condition only apply if at least one damage card is dealt.

34 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Official poll: Should harpoons be removed from the game?

Yes

No

Other

Yes.