20 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I'd say whatever handicaps you have, whether self-imposed or external, the way to deal with them is to have a clear-eyed understanding of what the ramifications of those restrictions are. If you can still have fun with those restrictions, you have your answer.

Speaking from my own experience. I want to play fighters. It's what drew me to this game, and I find the whole cargo hauler converted into super-fighter kinda overdone. Like a 737 with sweet aftermarket mods that can dominate a couple F16s. That's me, though, not my opponent, so I don't whine about the 5th militarily significant space semi that I've faced in a day. I don't even mind facing it, it's just not what I want to play.

This preference for certain kinds of ships means that I occasionally need to do more with less, or as I see it, figure out how to leverage the more narrow strengths of, say, a TIE/D compared to the broad strengths of, say, a Jumpmaster5000. I find this fun, and I've typically put in a lot of solitaire preparation to try and figure out how to handle tough meta squads with whatever squad I'm currently using.

I find this kind of preparation interesting, and I can pretty much track my Regionals successes with how much prep time I've put in with a squad. I can see how this seems awful to some people, however, and it would ruin the game for them. Interestingly, I was only using Vassal to facilitate solitaire play for a while, and hit top 4 in my first Regional with almost entirely solitaire practice. Shortly after that I started with the online component, which was fun, because it let me play more, but was actually worse in terms of serious tournament prep. In my second Regional, with a lot less solitaire prep, I got a 2-3 record (no drop, got the bye). I learned my lesson a bit and went back to solitaire games and got top 8 in my 3rd Regional.

So this went much longer than I intended, but hopefully it was useful.

Interesting. What do you do for solo practice? What's the general procedure.?

41 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

Interesting. What do you do for solo practice? What's the general procedure.?

The first thing I would do is what the guys described in Listener 4. I'd joust the lists against each other, try to figure out if there were ranges or angles where there were clear advantages. That would usually tell me the situations where my squad wanted to be. That would in turn inform me of positions the opposing squad would want to create, and that would inform obstacle placement, deployment, and early turn moves to try and minimize those situations.

As the operational level stuff was hammered out, I'd start mixing in full games, just to see what would happen, get in unexpected situations, and figure out how to deal with them. The full games would help inform turn-by-turn tactics and also see what it felt like when theory failed due to dice. I would typically plan "my" squad's moves, then plan my opposing moves as if they correctly guessed "my" moves. This tended to teach me to look for moves with minimal weaknesses, or at least pick moves whose hardest counters would put the opposing squad in a compromised position. It was good for planning moves a turn it two ahead.

Finally, running both squads gives you a pretty good idea of what the other squad wants to do, in my experience, Krayt objections to the contrary.

2 hours ago, Biophysical said:

I'd say whatever handicaps you have, whether self-imposed or external, the way to deal with them is to have a clear-eyed understanding of what the ramifications of those restrictions are. If you can still have fun with those restrictions, you have your answer.

That's where I am. I only fly Rebels and, right now, almost always including Poe. I've had fun thus far with that restriction. I guess I'll find out in a couple weeks if I have fun with that restriction at a large event. Either the answer will be yes, in which case I'll go to more large events, or the answer will be no and I'll stick to smaller local stuff. I'm good with that either way. I am starting to suspect that I don't want to Git Gud. It sounds like work.

15 minutes ago, gennataos said:

That's where I am. I only fly Rebels and, right now, almost always including Poe. I've had fun thus far with that restriction. I guess I'll find out in a couple weeks if I have fun with that restriction at a large event. Either the answer will be yes, in which case I'll go to more large events, or the answer will be no and I'll stick to smaller local stuff. I'm good with that either way. I am starting to suspect that I don't want to Git Gud. It sounds like work.

First off, great podcast. It comes at an opportune time, as I'm coming off of three bad defeats, two in X-Wing, one in a board game, that were self-imposed and left me wondering, yeah, how do I get better at these things?

My main takeaway is that I need to get on Vassal -- and, yeah, finally put the templates on the table in the solo exercises everyone recommends. One of the defeats was due to rockings I thought I'd moved past.

2 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Finally, running both squads gives you a pretty good idea of what the other squad wants to do, in my experience, Krayt objections to the contrary.

I agree. I try to fly all kinds of lists in order to figure them out.
Most my losses playing Warmachine were "Oh, I didn't know your list did that!" And I've tried to keep from that mistake playing X-Wing.

I didn't listen to the audio, but did look at the notes.

I'd say by far my biggest weakness is the lists I use competitively. I love firesprays, and hate the meta. So that means I'm always running firespray lists with other non-meta ships/pilots so I'm already at a disadvantage against other competitive players.

Now I will admit all my years of practice with firesprays means I can still win more than lose with them, but if I used more top tier lists I could probably win a SC or make the cut at a regional.

I've listened to the audio, and read the notes.

I agree with most, have a couple of reservations, but it's very solid advice. Especially in getting into the mindset of playing competitivley.

I was at the point earlier this year of winning games and placing well due to lucky play of Meta-lists (Dengaroo and Parattani days) but have fallen way off after that*, and have been trying to get back on the ball.

*Off and on. I've done well and done awful.

I agreed with everything you guys stated.

I’m at a point in my playing career and life where I’m not looking at going any further with the game. Been to Worlds, Regionals, Store Champs, etc. I win or place top 3 every local tournament usually and win my entries back and fine with it. With life about to get too busy, I’ve just been content on finding a squad I built myself that I enjoy, is good, and one that I can see my skill with it increase as I practice with it. Overall it just has to be a fun squad. I agree that in order to continue growing in the game is to netlist, and practice it as much as possible. But I’ve been there and experienced that and have used the resources that already available on matchups. However, I’m content and now am finding joy for different reasons with the game.

Great work on the episode! ?

I did a ton of solo-practice leading up to my higher-profile wins, too. My technique is pretty similar to Biophysical's: plan out your own move, and then cheat and plan out the opposing side move with the knowledge of what your own move is. Make things as difficult as possible for your own list.

14 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Interestingly, I was only using Vassal to facilitate solitaire play for a while, and hit top 4 in my first Regional with almost entirely solitaire practice. Shortly after that I started with the online component, which was fun, because it let me play more, but was actually worse in terms of serious tournament prep. In my second Regional, with a lot less solitaire prep, I got a 2-3 record (no drop, got the bye). I learned my lesson a bit and went back to solitaire games and got top 8 in my 3rd Regional.

6 minutes ago, pheaver said:

I did a ton of solo-practice leading up to my higher-profile wins, too. My technique is pretty similar to Biophysical's: plan out your own move, and then cheat and plan out the opposing side move with the knowledge of what your own move is. Make things as difficult as possible for your own list.

Couldn't agree more. Didn't realize that we failed to follow up on solitaire until you brought it up @Biophysical. It makes me nervous to recommend it as a general rule, since it's so easy to fall into the trap of trying to make things fair for each list, when it's much more useful like you said to make it as hard as possible (within reason) on yourself.

11 hours ago, gennataos said:

That's where I am. I only fly Rebels and, right now, almost always including Poe. I've had fun thus far with that restriction. I guess I'll find out in a couple weeks if I have fun with that restriction at a large event. Either the answer will be yes, in which case I'll go to more large events, or the answer will be no and I'll stick to smaller local stuff. I'm good with that either way. I am starting to suspect that I don't want to Git Gud. It sounds like work.

If you're having fun, and the work (and it is work) of Gitting Gud™ isn't fun for you, then sounds like you're better off as is! And that's perfectly cool.

1 minute ago, Brunas said:

If you're having fun, and the work (and it is work) of Gitting Gud™ isn't fun for you, then sounds like you're better off as is! And that's perfectly cool.

Maybe I'll just Git Gud Enough (for me)™.

8 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Couldn't agree more. Didn't realize that we failed to follow up on solitaire until you brought it up @Biophysical. It makes me nervous to recommend it as a general rule, since it's so easy to fall into the trap of trying to make things fair for each list, when it's much more useful like you said to make it as hard as possible (within reason) on yourself.

Trying to make things fair is probably the biggest mistake in solo practice. Make things as awful as possible. There's no face to save. If I'm in a rolling dice sort of solo practice, I'll re-roll natties on "my" squad just because I don't want to forget about it and then think any success was not helped along by dice.

In practice scenarios with a partner, or in solo practice, you could just forego rolling dice and just always take the average results, or (depending on your specific purpose in practicing) always give the other guy slightly better than average results while you take slightly less than average results. Or whatever

2 minutes ago, Incard said:

In practice scenarios with a partner, or in solo practice, you could just forego rolling dice and just always take the average results, or (depending on your specific purpose in practicing) always give the other guy slightly better than average results while you take slightly less than average results. Or whatever

Huh, that's a very simple and elegant solution. Just round up for him and down for yourself

2 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Huh, that's a very simple and elegant solution. Just round up for him and down for yourself

That is another thing you have to be careful of, I think. I can play around average dice but then you can never take that variance play when you need it. If it is against yourself just recognize when you need to get desperate and either call it or start rolling dice at that point.

A couple of disadvantages of solo play is one, you're playing against your own skill level. This isn't terrible, but keep in mind not to underestimate a list. You may not have flown it as well as it could be flown.

I just soloed my regionals list (Nora, Nym, Ezra) versus Imperial Alpha Strike. Lost Nora on the first salvo. (Nerf Cruise Missiles! :D) but won with Nym as my last pilot.

I'm sure I played the Imperials poorly in the mid-game, so I'm still very mindful.

Second is that another opponent will help keep you honest on rules, timing, crits, etc. You may forget a Stunned Pilot, but your opponent likely won't.

58 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

Second is that another opponent will help keep you honest on rules, timing, crits, etc. You may forget a Stunned Pilot, but your opponent likely won't.

Don't count on it. It's ridiculous how many times crits get forgotten. Use crit tokens!

1 hour ago, LagJanson said:

Don't count on it. It's ridiculous how many times crits get forgotten. Use crit tokens!

CRIT tokens? This game has crit tokens?

22 hours ago, Biophysical said:

I find this kind of preparation interesting, and I can pretty much track my Regionals successes with how much prep time I've put in with a squad. I can see how this seems awful to some people, however, and it would ruin the game for them.

Yeah, this is me. I've never "practiced" for an X-Wing tournament since ... ever. Practice would make it feel like work, for sure.

2014 Regionals, I picked my list six days in advance, got maybe four games in, made the cut (6th).

2015 Regionals, I picked my list the night before, played it once, went 6-0 for the cut (2nd).

2016 Regionals, I built Brace Yourself (Wes, Biggs, Keyan) to handle the JumpBastard meta. This one I played a lot, in Store Championships (winning two, making the cut in others), but I still never "practiced" with it in a directed, purposeful fashion. I finished 4-2, with the third-highest MoV in the tournament, but didn't make the cut (9th) due to a 1 HP ship rolling perfect natural evades. ("Muh -- er, his -- dice!")

So my Regionals success has been exactly the opposite of yours ... the fewer reps and the less prep time, the more success! (There's no actual causation. Probably.)

I think, in general, that being able to math stuff on the fly, combined with good maneuvering and target priority skills, combined with the ability to know when a given ship build is strong ... I think that still goes a long way. I do think that as the number of combinations and synergies geometrically increases, those skills are growing less valuable (relatively speaking). I think actual structured practice and prep would do me loads of good, but ... I just can't. It's a handicap, for sure.

Other handicaps a lot of players saddle themselves with (including me) is the refusal to fly whatever won two tournaments last weekend, and the refusal to do tactically smart but douchey things (like fortressing, or denying actions or abilities when the game state hasn't changed).

3 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

the refusal to do tactically smart but douchey things (like fortressing, or denying actions or abilities when the game state hasn't changed).

I'm really surprised these things are similar/equal to you. I'm having trouble getting my thoughts out well, but I see fortressing as just another tactic like blocking - it's just a tool you need to make some matchup better/playable, the same way a tie swarm can't compete with soontir without blocking him. Lots of lists can't compete with bombs in an open field, so fortressing is just "correct".

3 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I'm really surprised these things are similar/equal to you. I'm having trouble getting my thoughts out well, but I see fortressing as just another tactic like blocking - it's just a tool you need to make some matchup better/playable, the same way a tie swarm can't compete with soontir without blocking him. Lots of lists can't compete with bombs in an open field, so fortressing is just "correct".

I'm not going to invest in arguing this, so I'll go with my stock question that either illuminates or doesn't:

If you had come to an X-Wing tournament as X-Wing's target audience (but currently a non-player) and watched five turns of players fortressing, what would you have thought of the game?

8 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

I'm not going to invest in arguing this, so I'll go with my stock question that either illuminates or doesn't:

If you had come to an X-Wing tournament as X-Wing's target audience (but currently a non-player) and watched five turns of players fortressing, what would you have thought of the game?

Oh, no worries at all, I get that it's not particularly pleasant for anyone, just wondering if there was more to it. Thanks.

If fortressing is actually the best strategy, then the game has gotten to a weird point (because until recently, it usually was NOT the best, or even a good, strategy).

It’s not really the player’ fault if the correct strategy is to fortress, versus near auto-losing by leaving deployment.

It’s not really douchy on the player...

edit: which, for what it’s worth, we hate fortressing being useful or necessary, because it definitely IS super boring.

2 hours ago, LagJanson said:

Don't count on it. It's ridiculous how many times crits get forgotten. Use crit tokens!

Always. And I've gotten some of my local group to do it out of example.

I'm in the habit of marking crits for my opponent with my own tokens if they don't