7th fleet star destroyer - what could this be that would justify playing two ISD, neither of which are Avenger or Chimaera?
Speculation on 7th fleet ISD title
Probably something to do with those beastly front arcs
Maybe a flak boost? Or sharing some amount of damage, like a bigger TFA?
swap or share commands? activation shenanigans? IE: activate one ISD, then immediately activate the other
14 minutes ago, outerrimrebel said:activation shenanigans? IE: activate one ISD, then immediately activate the other
Better be a 50 point title
Edited by MandalorianMooseBorrowing an older post of mine, here’s my speculation.
With the release of the Chimera expansion Fantasy Flight has put Imperial players in a pickle, what do you do when you already own two or even three ISDs? Four ISDs can’t be legally fielded outside of the Corellian Conflict and three ISDs is an unviable gimmick at best.
Which, from a lore prospective just feels wrong. The Imperial Star Destroyer is THE Imperial ship. It should be ubiquitous without having every single battle be against the hardest working ships in the navy, Relentless and Avenger.
So how do you allow players to use the ships they’ve previously bought, make multiple ISDs viable and make the unique titles less of a no brainer?
Seventh Fleet - Title - 0pts
Reduce the cost of this card by five points for every other copy of this card in your fleet.
So...
1 Generic ISD - no discount
2 Generic ISD - 5 point discount each (total 10)
3 Generic ISD - 10 point discount each (total 30)
4 Generic ISD - 15 point discount each (total 60)
This title gives a slight discount to two ISD fleets in exchange for forsaking other (very good) title options, makes three ISD fleets viable by giving them an extra 30 points to play with and makes 4 ISD lists at least legal (4 7th Fleet ISD I + Ozzel is exactly 400 points).
While their are potential issues with this title in the Corellian Conflict (you could get up to five ISD in a list. potential solution? limit the card to four copies), within standard play I believe this will open up new list options without creating anything too overpowering.
Bonus guess on Sovereign?
Sovereign (3ish points), You may have more than one command token of the same type.
Fits well with it being Tarkin’s ISD and fits with the recent FAQ barring you from using two of the same token in a turn.
1 hour ago, hulldown said:Bonus guess on Sovereign?
Sovereign (3ish points), You may have more than one command token of the same type.
Fits well with it being Tarkin’s ISD and fits with the recent FAQ barring you from using two of the same token in a turn.
I was hoping for 'sovereign - minus 10 points. Grand moff tarkin must be your fleet commander'.
1 hour ago, hulldown said:Borrowing an older post of mine, here’s my speculation.
With the release of the Chimera expansion Fantasy Flight has put Imperial players in a pickle, what do you do when you already own two or even three ISDs? Four ISDs can’t be legally fielded outside of the Corellian Conflict and three ISDs is an unviable gimmick at best.
Which, from a lore prospective just feels wrong. The Imperial Star Destroyer is THE Imperial ship. It should be ubiquitous without having every single battle be against the hardest working ships in the navy, Relentless and Avenger.
So how do you allow players to use the ships they’ve previously bought, make multiple ISDs viable and make the unique titles less of a no brainer?
Seventh Fleet - Title - 0pts
Reduce the cost of this card by five points for every other copy of this card in your fleet.
So...
1 Generic ISD - no discount
2 Generic ISD - 5 point discount each (total 10)
3 Generic ISD - 10 point discount each (total 30)
4 Generic ISD - 15 point discount each (total 60)
This title gives a slight discount to two ISD fleets in exchange for forsaking other (very good) title options, makes three ISD fleets viable by giving them an extra 30 points to play with and makes 4 ISD lists at least legal (4 7th Fleet ISD I + Ozzel is exactly 400 points).
While their are potential issues with this title in the Corellian Conflict (you could get up to five ISD in a list. potential solution? limit the card to four copies), within standard play I believe this will open up new list options without creating anything too overpowering.
You don't think fielding 4 ISDs in any list isn't overpowered? RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY???????
The problem with this is that it turns every fleet into 4 ISDs versus 4 ISDs. 2 ISD fleets can be viable, but 3 and 4 SHOULD NOT BE VIABLE for the sheer health of the game.
I like the IDEA behind the concept, but I don't think anything that gives this significant of a discount is anywhere near fair to anyone else playing the game.
2 hours ago, hulldown said:Bonus guess on Sovereign?
Sovereign (3ish points), You may have more than one command token of the same type.
Fits well with it being Tarkin’s ISD and fits with the recent FAQ barring you from using two of the same token in a turn.
That actually works really well with the fleet commands
47 minutes ago, geek19 said:You don't think fielding 4 ISDs in any list isn't overpowered? RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY???????
The problem with this is that it turns every fleet into 4 ISDs versus 4 ISDs. 2 ISD fleets can be viable, but 3 and 4 SHOULD NOT BE VIABLE for the sheer health of the game.
I like the IDEA behind the concept, but I don't think anything that gives this significant of a discount is anywhere near fair to anyone else playing the game.
I’d contend that, yeah, four completely naked ISD-Is wouldn’t be that bad.
You wouldn’t have access to Jerjerrod or Motti. You wouldn’t have any squads whatsoever to stop enemy bombers. You would have absolutely no say in whether you were first or second player. You wouldn’t get a single re-roll on your dice. You’d be badly beaten on deployments against just about everything.
I mean five VSD lists exist now, can have more hull (with Motti) and aren’t exactly dominating the top tables.
I think three ISD lists would actually be the more dangerous of the options under my proposal but don’t think it’d be game breaking. It’s even possible now but generally discouraged due to difficulties in maneuvering them together, a problem this title wouldn’t fix. All this would do is permit such a fleet to get a little under four generic TIE squadrons in exchange for not taking Avenger, Relentless, Chimaera, Devastator and Sovereign. It’d certainly make it a more viable list but game breaking? I’m not so sure.
Of course all of this is all theoretical and I’ve never actually tried testing it. Would certainly be interesting to see a sixteen page ‘oh god triple ISD lists rule the world’ discussion as a change of pace.
(big fan of the blog btw)
4 hours ago, hulldown said:Borrowing an older post of mine, here’s my speculation.
With the release of the Chimera expansion Fantasy Flight has put Imperial players in a pickle, what do you do when you already own two or even three ISDs? Four ISDs can’t be legally fielded outside of the Corellian Conflict and three ISDs is an unviable gimmick at best.
Which, from a lore prospective just feels wrong. The Imperial Star Destroyer is THE Imperial ship. It should be ubiquitous without having every single battle be against the hardest working ships in the navy, Relentless and Avenger.
So how do you allow players to use the ships they’ve previously bought, make multiple ISDs viable and make the unique titles less of a no brainer?
Seventh Fleet - Title - 0pts
Reduce the cost of this card by five points for every other copy of this card in your fleet.
So...
1 Generic ISD - no discount
2 Generic ISD - 5 point discount each (total 10)
3 Generic ISD - 10 point discount each (total 30)
4 Generic ISD - 15 point discount each (total 60)
This title gives a slight discount to two ISD fleets in exchange for forsaking other (very good) title options, makes three ISD fleets viable by giving them an extra 30 points to play with and makes 4 ISD lists at least legal (4 7th Fleet ISD I + Ozzel is exactly 400 points).
While their are potential issues with this title in the Corellian Conflict (you could get up to five ISD in a list. potential solution? limit the card to four copies), within standard play I believe this will open up new list options without creating anything too overpowering.
I think this has merit. The 4 isd list wouldnt be very practical, but it would open up the feasibility of three isds. You could take 3x isd1/kuat/cymoon plus thrawn with some minimal upgrades and a few tie fighters so it would at least look like a fleet.
I think a five ISD list would be awesome......
7 hours ago, hulldown said:I’d contend that, yeah, four completely naked ISD-Is wouldn’t be that bad.
You wouldn’t have access to Jerjerrod or Motti. You wouldn’t have any squads whatsoever to stop enemy bombers. You would have absolutely no say in whether you were first or second player. You wouldn’t get a single re-roll on your dice. You’d be badly beaten on deployments against just about everything.
I mean five VSD lists exist now, can have more hull (with Motti) and aren’t exactly dominating the top tables.
I think three ISD lists would actually be the more dangerous of the options under my proposal but don’t think it’d be game breaking. It’s even possible now but generally discouraged due to difficulties in maneuvering them together, a problem this title wouldn’t fix. All this would do is permit such a fleet to get a little under four generic TIE squadrons in exchange for not taking Avenger, Relentless, Chimaera, Devastator and Sovereign. It’d certainly make it a more viable list but game breaking? I’m not so sure.
Of course all of this is all theoretical and I’ve never actually tried testing it. Would certainly be interesting to see a sixteen page ‘oh god triple ISD lists rule the world’ discussion as a change of pace.
(big fan of the blog btw)
You do raise a valid point about a few things NOT existing in that 4 ISD list. I was somewhat worrying about all those other things being seen there in regular lists, but my worry is being able to significantly fight a 3 ISD list in something that isn't a goofy 500 point game. Then again, I don't see 3 ISDs NOW in those 500 pointers.
My other worry is that if it's possible, I won't ever see Arquitens or Raiders or VSDs ever again. Or, much lessened, I suppose.
1 hour ago, geek19 said:My other worry is that if it's possible, I won't ever see Arquitens or Raiders or VSDs ever again. Or, much lessened, I suppose.
How much are you seeing Arquitens and Raiders now? Honestly, all I really see are ISDs, Gozanti, Demolisher, and a few VSDs.
7 minutes ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:How much are you seeing Arquitens and Raiders now? Honestly, all I really see are ISDs, Gozanti, Demolisher, and a few VSDs.
Ooof, sad but true. I think Arquitens have a great place (perfect for the flagship of a small ship fleet, IMO), but I'm finding it harder and harder to justify Raiders. I used to love them, they were in almost every list. I also used to love Glads, but now I'm finding it hard to run those. Rebels seem to have better ways to keep small ships alive, and that's super important in the current meta. Squishy ships that need to get close are getting harder and harder to use effectively.
My thought was that 7th fleet would be “During your activation, you may exhaust this and another copy of this card on a friendly ship at distance 1-3. If you do, that ship may make one attack. You cannot Attack more than once this round.”
Add in some sort of restriction so that the friendly ship’s attack cannot be from a hull zone that is has or will attack from during its activation.
This still only allows four attacks from two ISDs, but it allows three to be from a single ISD and prevent triple tapping out the front of one
The title should be something that allows the 7th fleet to have 7 Star Destroyers in an Armada game! You know it makes sense.
1 hour ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:How much are you seeing Arquitens and Raiders now? Honestly, all I really see are ISDs, Gozanti, Demolisher, and a few VSDs.
See, they're bad ships, Bront. Stop using them against me. Put them away, they're not worth it.
@ricefrisbeetreats @IronNerd all the dang time. I know a good amount of people who know what they're doing with Raiders (stupid Eric being a good teacher and knowing how to use them effectively!), and they're often things I need to take into account when fleet building. And with the Cymoon coming out, I know a lot of our locals are talking about using 2 arqs and a Cymoon under Tarkin. I don't know if it'll be GOOD, mind you, but there's a fair amount of interest in it.
Before Eric can ask, I'll ask for him. What issues are you guys having using Raiders that they're difficult to justify? Mucho Ackbar in your meta? All 2+3?
1 hour ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:How much are you seeing Arquitens and Raiders now? Honestly, all I really see are ISDs, Gozanti, Demolisher, and a few VSDs.
Interesting.. with the extra incentive to run multiple ISDs I would expect to see more Raiders, not less.
As far as the title is concerned I wonder if it has something to do with the squadrons present in the pack.
14 minutes ago, geek19 said:Before Eric can ask, I'll ask for him. What issues are you guys having using Raiders that they're difficult to justify? Mucho Ackbar in your meta? All 2+3?
We don't honestly have much of a "meta", our group isn't large enough or consistent enough. That being said, bombers are really popular. This originally meant that Raiders were fantastic, but now that everyone has seen what Raiders can do, they don't tend to live long enough to do their job. I've included one in a list here or there, but they never seem to really pull their weight these days. The whole 'close range ship with long range defensive tokens' thing is what has been killing them for me.
It's possible I don't play the right kind of fleets to make them sing any more, I used to love them...
14 hours ago, outerrimrebel said:activation shenanigans? IE: activate one ISD, then immediately activate the other
That's what Pryce is for...should be fun stuff
3 hours ago, geek19 said:My other worry is that if it's possible, I won't ever see Arquitens or Raiders or VSDs ever again. Or, much lessened, I suppose.
As a MSU player? I'm with you on that. There wasn't a single arquitens or raider at my regional which didn't feel right. Raiders got a great boost last wave (good lord I love external racks) and I'm really, really hoping Intensify Firepower gives arquitens a much needed shot in the arm.
My hope would be to give Imperial players another viable list, while still not taking anything away from the viability of the existing lists. That and give players a reason not to put Avenger or Relentless in every list.
1 minute ago, hulldown said:As a MSU player? I'm with you on that. There wasn't a single arquitens or raider at my regional which didn't feel right. Raiders got a great boost last wave (good lord I love external racks) and I'm really, really hoping Intensify Firepower gives arquitens a much needed shot in the arm.
My hope would be to give Imperial players another viable list, while still not taking anything away from the viability of the existing lists. That and give players a reason not to put Avenger or Relentless in every list.
Well with Chimaera existing, and whatever Sovereign does, there's 4 solid titles for ISDs all wanting different things (I don't think Chimaera wants to be on a I, but that's me). I like the concept behind Devastator, but there's a lot of potential issues with that (in my Rebel only mind), ESPECIALLY with Vader. Just keep spending defense tokens, you'll be alive SOMEHOW! As a squadrons player often enough, that's usually a great start for me. Just gotta stay even further out of range though, haha.
I would imagine with Thrawn appearing and the Task Force title, whatever it does, you'll see 2 ISD fleets more often, which to me is a new fleet concept in and of itself. I'm both excited and scared to face one of those.
3 minutes ago, geek19 said:Well with Chimaera existing, and whatever Sovereign does, there's 4 solid titles for ISDs all wanting different things (I don't think Chimaera wants to be on a I, but that's me). I like the concept behind Devastator, but there's a lot of potential issues with that (in my Rebel only mind), ESPECIALLY with Vader. Just keep spending defense tokens, you'll be alive SOMEHOW! As a squadrons player often enough, that's usually a great start for me. Just gotta stay even further out of range though, haha.
I would imagine with Thrawn appearing and the Task Force title, whatever it does, you'll see 2 ISD fleets more often, which to me is a new fleet concept in and of itself. I'm both excited and scared to face one of those.
Devastator, to me, has always been like XX-9s. I hate them when they're being used against me but just can't justify it when I'm writing my own lists. Personally I'm excited about fletchettes on Kuats and Vader Cymoons. Six re-rollable red dice twice a turn? Ackbar eat your heart out.