Trying to get ready for my first regionals. I'm an average player playing against a friend who has probably another 200-300 more games than me and is a solid player who I usually trade wins with equally until I started training for meta. I don't fly into obstacles, control my engagement and got the shots needed with PS 10-11 Scum harpoon alpha and PS 9 Dengar / Ketsu w/ countermeasures, but still can't crack this.

He flies them in formation. if I target Lowhhrick, I get double stressed by Ezra. If I target Ezra (who he already stresses) few damage gets through thanks to Lowhhrick. Targeting Miranda hasn't worked either as she just flies away and does her bomb thing, but not before unleashing 5 dice harpoons. Granted, he is using two of the top 3 pilots in the meta right now, but there has to be a way to deal with this tankiness, right?

Have tried formation flying, jousting, flanking and just wild skirmishing. Not sure what to do. I don't have any Imperials---I know 4 HLC gunboats would tear this up--- I have everything else Rebel and Scum. I THINK trajectory simulator with protons would maybe disrupt. Or Brobots B/D with ion cannon and tractor beam. Or a 4+ ship ordnance list. But can't figure it out. Thoughts?

This is definitely a problematic squad to face and if not 'top of the meta' yet, it will be soon. I've been thinking about how to tackle it effectively as well.

First though, a digression: this squad is the perfect example of why FFG's designers are completely clueless of how this game works. They FAQ genius to 'curb' the bombing meta INSTEAD of FAQ-ing the REAL PROBLEM cards (sabine and bomblet generator, both of which are WAY too good for their costs). If they would just play the **** game more often and figure out how lists work, they could actually release properly balanced cards....AND even if some slipped by (like those two), they could actually NERF the cards that ACTUALLY need nerfing!

Okay, now that I've finished that rant, on to how to deal with this BS.

The way I see it, there are two ways to beat the list consistently. First of all, you can take advantage of another OP card (again something that actually play-testing would've curbed): Harpoon Missile. Spamming these for scum is fairly easy (triple scurrgs for example, or even the Khiraxz, although its not a super competitive platform). You aim these at Lowrick and even though he still gets the benefit of reinforce, his one agility is unlikely to stop these things from hitting (and you splash one or two damage onto the other ships). Next turn, you move in close, try to use the most damaged one to block Lowrick to deny the reinforce token, and finish off the Auzituck with R1 primaries. After that, the list should be easier to deal with...

Alternatively, you can just fly a blocker (contracted scout w/ APL + intel agent, for example). Keep the Auzituck from getting actions, and then its easy to kill either of the other two ships---which one depends on your approach, what you have to hit them with, and how exactly the opponent set them up---but whichever one you think you can kill quickest...

Or instead of a blocker, you can use stress control right back at him (stress hog, your own sheathipede, tactician spam, etc). In this case, there's obviously no point stressing Ezra, but putting double stress on either of his other two ships really gimps their ability to 'cheese out'.

That’s a pretty brutal list.

Azituck and K wing each only have 1 agi, so I think your instinct for using ion is a good call.

Miranda’s harpoons rely on target locks so things like Black One, Countermeasures, and Expert Handling At PS 8+ are your friends.

Plenty of lists with 3+ harpoons will just alpha Miranda and mop up the rest. Even with Lowie around, the harpoon alpha strike can still spike crazy damage.

im confused about that ezra build

Why gunner and wired? its clear hes trying to double-stress but wired leads to trying to hit more reliably, since he wont ever use it defensively.

Also yeah harpoon spam, stress, or even HLCs would work wonders. HLCs dodge DTF for the most part (yes rerolls into crits still go through but personally i rarely cause crits with hlc). Low's ability only works once and in any alpha-list theres going to be 3 super heavy hitting attacks, theres no way low can protect from them all when everyone's agility is crap too. In theory he'd soak/block 4 damage, which would let Miranda survive but she'd be hanging on by a thread.

Definitely a dirty list dont get me wrong but not sure if i'd be worried about it being a meta sweeper. We might be going back to the whole rock/paper/scissors thing though where scum beats rebels, rebels beat imps, imps beat scums. I say rebels beat imps because personally i'm having issues dealing with both regen poe and that stupid stressbug (they arent autowinning but DANG is it hard to fight)

That list has some nice control elements and some damage mitigation, but ultimately, it does not hit very hard, at least not initially. The bomblet generator combined with Sabine means that you cannot "follow" the list and strike at it. Ezra and Miranda would take pot shots at you while Low would mitigate the damage and the bombs, the real threat, would do their work.

Miranda is the real priority, so you need to be able to strike at her hard and fast. If you cannot do that or fall short of killing her, disengage completely and then prepare another strike. Just keep in mind that as long as she cannot shoot you, she cannot regenerate shields.

a Scurrg with bombs and trajectory simulator would be problematic for that build (with a harpoon to boot). So would alpha strike lists and such. A low PS blocker such as a jumpmaster blocking the path could prevent your opponent from using his bombs. Those are a few ideas that could help.

The biggest weakness of this "Meta" list is it's red dice and lack of green dice.
With regard to its overall strategy, It needs to kill something to win, otherwise it will lose at the final salvo (2 + 2 + 3).
With regard to its weak red dice, once it shoots its missile, it loses its bite. If you force this list to be aggressive, you can force it into mistakes. Also, bank on the fact that the person playing it will not be able to keep the correct formation if you force it to try and hunt you down, or if you dodge the initial joust. (Spoiler, they want to joust you to let Miranda power up the missile and to double stress their target.)
If you can isolate Lowhrick without a reinforce, or punch down the stress bug, you can win. Miranda is a red herring, since she will run and regen if you know off her shields.

50 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

im confused about that ezra build

Why gunner and wired? its clear hes trying to double-stress but wired leads to trying to hit more reliably, since he wont ever use it defensively.

Well, to be fair, the 'correct' (or more OP) list is:

Lowrick with Selflessness (and possibly rey)

Miranda as above

Ezra with Draw Their Fire (rest as above)

100

This version is superior because you CANNOT kill Miranda with an alpha strike. If you try, you are lucky to do more than 2-3 damage (which she can regen later if you cannot focus fire her off the board next turn). So you are pretty much forced to kill Lowrick first in order to get at the other two (unless you use some of the tactics I described above to stop the reinforce token)

as an imp player i'd be going for the bug in both builds because the stress is more punishing than anything else.

Cant k-turn
Cant SLAM
Cant buff my defense
Cant buff my offense (w/o FCS)

Cant do the above? Miranda has her way with you (giggity?)

Its also the easiest to kill despite all the protection. I've called him NewBiggs for a reason locally - he doesnt force you to hit him first but you might wanna hit him first

Odds are it would take the entire initial strike to kill it thanks to low but unless the little stress-hoarder rolled 2evade/focus every single flippin defense he'd be down (plus i run alot of crackshots)
None of my friends understand why i hate that thing with a passion and gun for it so hard. I refuse to tell them why too lol

14 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

as an imp player i'd be going for the bug in both builds because the stress is more punishing than anything else.

Cant k-turn
Cant SLAM
Cant buff my defense
Cant buff my offense (w/o FCS)

Cant do the above? Miranda has her way with you (giggity?)

Its also the easiest to kill despite all the protection. I've called him NewBiggs for a reason locally - he doesnt force you to hit him first but you might wanna hit him first

Odds are it would take the entire initial strike to kill it thanks to low but unless the little stress-hoarder rolled 2evade/focus every single flippin defense he'd be down (plus i run alot of crackshots)
None of my friends understand why i hate that thing with a passion and gun for it so hard. I refuse to tell them why too lol

Well for Imperials, its a very different situation. I agree with you that the stress bug becomes harder to ignore. Imperial Aces are in a difficult position against this list, for example. They can probably get a range 3 shot out of arc from stress bug AND far enough away from bomblets, but next turn, will likely have to flee in order to reset that 'ideal' position. So they are only dealing damage once every 3 or so turns. That's just not good enough against this kind of 'point fortress' list.

I think the best option for Imperials is the following:

Quickdraw w/ VI, FCS, title, harpoon & chips = 36

2 'crack' Rho's (XG-1, crackshot, HLC, linked & LRS) = 32 x 2

100

You have enough firepower to erase Lowrick in the first turn of shooting which eliminates most of the list's shenanigans. Yes, one of your ships will be double stressed, but all of them should survive (even counting Miranda's 5 dice harpoon). After that, its just a matter of predicting which way Miranda will likely flee: block that move and kill her. After that, even if all 3 of your ships have a huge pile of stress, there's no way you can lose against a single sheathipede...

So yeah, the stress bug can be annoying, but its not necessarily the smart choice to take it out first (it really depends on your list and how both lists approach each other in game).

1 minute ago, blade_mercurial said:

Quickdraw w/ VI, FCS, title, harpoon & chips = 36

2 'crack' Rho's (XG-1, crackshot, HLC, linked & LRS) = 32 x 2

100

it amuses me how many ships fit in that 36pt gap so well lol....

Vessery, Stele, Vader, Quickdraw, Deathrain, Blackout, another Gunboat....

And yeah its true its not always the wisest move but vast majority of the time it is. People underestimate how powerful a control ship can be

Nuke the shuttle if you can. Get the stress control off the board. It's a less-durable Biggs that shoots at lower PS. Brute force Low afterwards. Mop up Miranda with the rest (should still have about 60% of your list left).

12 minutes ago, RampancyTW said:

Nuke the shuttle if you can. Get the stress control off the board. It's a less-durable Biggs that shoots at lower PS. Brute force Low afterwards. Mop up Miranda with the rest (should still have about 60% of your list left).

You obviously haven't played against it. This is EXACTLY what your opponent wants you to do, and is a terrible idea unless you have very specific ways to deal damage that allow you to bypass all of the defensive shenanigans this list has...

5 minutes ago, blade_mercurial said:

You obviously haven't played against it. This is EXACTLY what your opponent wants you to do, and is a terrible idea unless you have very specific ways to deal damage that allow you to bypass all of the defensive shenanigans this list has...

Shuttle is easiest to kill and will give you the most issues down the line from the stress buildup. It's a less-durable Braylen/Biggs for the list. Miranda and Low will both be much harder to kill and won't screw with your actions/maneuvers as much.

Edit: Overall damage output for the list is low, especially if you can PS kill Ezra. That's why gunning for the stress control is okay.

for the record Ezra isnt a less durable biggs. Especially backed by Low he will eat an entire alpha before he goes down. You effectively have to cause 10 damage in 2-3 attacks to even attempt to take him down, and when he has 5hp thats ridiculous.

His green dice are super reliable with his stress ability and Low can flatout add one or rip hits away with Selflessness.

What he is is a Biggs that actually does something other than "HIT ME HAHAHA CMON GUYS HIT ME!!!!"

4 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

for the record Ezra isnt a less durable biggs. Especially backed by Low he will eat an entire alpha before he goes down. You effectively have to cause 10 damage in 2-3 attacks to even attempt to take him down, and when he has 5hp thats ridiculous.

His green dice are super reliable with his stress ability and Low can flatout add one or rip hits away with Selflessness.

What he is is a Biggs that actually does something other than "HIT ME HAHAHA CMON GUYS HIT ME!!!!"

Well no, he's objectively less durable. No r4-d6, no integrated astromech.

I have several lists that I would go for Lowhhrick first with, but I don't think that's good general advice.

Ezra Bridger (Sheathipede) (17)
Snap Shot (2)
Tactician (2)
R3-A2 (2)

Lowhhrick (28)
Draw Their Fire (1)
Tactician (2)
Rey (2)

Miranda Doni (29)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Harpoon Missiles (4)
Sabine Wren (2)
Bomblet Generator (3)
Long-Range Scanners (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Switch your list around to this and you’ll have a lot more success. I’ve been talking about it some on here and locally. The list is probably one of the best lists in the game right now and the areas where your opponent just can’t be is huge, like a third of the board around you huge.

Id think that dash miranda has a good shot against this.

Would a swarm of sorts possibly work? They're all rather low on green dice and a good chunk of their abilities rely on tanking single large damage attacks rather than a lot of small ones. Finally, their damage mitigation also forces them to fly somewhat close to each other creating a massive ship that is limited by the lowest common denominator of dials. The damage of Harpoon gets somewhat mitigated as long as you're spaced out and not flying in tight formation. You also have the extra ships to act as blockers in order to deny them actions and possibly force Miranda to eat one of her own bomblets.

Would 5x AT Alpha Squadron be any good? The AT will help to at least mitigate some TLT from Miranda, you'll have 5 attacks which you'll likely be able to pick from any 3 of the targets due to them being in close proximity. You'll have better dial, red dice, and green dice. I'd say focus down Miranda. If Low uses his ability, he loses the reinforce completely and you can then attack with little hindrance. Could 5 Interceptors get 9 damage in assuming they survive the Rebels initial volley? Sure. Once Miranda is gone, you've lost all ability to attack out of arc and can pretty much eat up the remaining two ships at your leisure.

Another option might be classic fat han with a light escort ship... once you eliminiate 1 source of damage, that list doesnt have enough teeth against him.

Also 4 wookies or 4 tlt should tear that list a new one, but pls dont go there.

I think the correct ship to shoot first is always Miranda in this list. Ezra and Low can't finish a list off by themselves. Your goal should be to kill Miranda with focused fire in the first two turns. IF she lives beyond that then you probably don't have a chance. PS11 cruise/poon alpha beats this pretty easily I think.

5 hours ago, Cloaker said:

But can't figure it out. Thoughts?

I think this list might be an example to try to split fire. First round of combat: Your first ship attacks Miranda (ideally with one of your harpoons). Your opponent has to choose to spend his reinforce token on Miranda in order to not take to much damage. If he does, attack Lowhhrick with your second and third ship to put some damage into him. If not keep hitting on Miranda. The damage output of your friend list is not so high, so I think it is worth to risk splitting up the fire. I'm not sure though if you want to shoot Erza or Miranda first. I guess that depends on how important actions are to your list.

I agree with blade_merc in that you should kill Low first. The sooner he is dead, the better.

Shooting Miri without it being end game and/or a reliable path to finish her off because of Low's support is a bad idea because of her Regen. Any early game shot you take on Miri is basically a waste of a round. That Harpoon will likely hit either way, and her single 2 dice TLT regen shot is probably gonna roll nat 2 hits anyways haha. Killing Miri early in a formation flying defensive list is REALLY hard.

As suggested above, could possibly shoot Miri first to make Low spend his reinforce token IF you also have 2+ followup shots onto Low. The risk is, Low might not spend that token immediately because of potential to just Regen or DTF or he knows that he can just add the evade to a later defense roll in case he realizes your game plan. Id just blow it all on Low asap.

The only perk of facing these Bomblet Miri builds is end game aces can actually predict where the bombs are lol, then just token stack weather the TLTs and run away/re-engage to prevent regen. It was way harder when they had to avoid action bombs too.

7 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

Why gunner and wired? its clear hes trying to double-stress but wired leads to trying to hit more reliably, since he wont ever use it defensively.

I made that mistake too, my first time. But after the first round it's obvious that wired is completely pointless. Snapshot on the other hand... and together with tactician you get double stress in range 1 and 2, so that's nice. Or gunner if the points are available. I'd also rather put a tactician onto Lowhhrick, but inspiring might give coordinate... hmmm...

6 hours ago, blade_mercurial said:

Quickdraw w/ VI, FCS, title, harpoon & chips = 36

by the way, I'm now way too in love with the 40pt QD with optics and frame. The harpoon has even slightly higher expected damage, and the ship is way more durable (e: expected hits is 3.75 with focus/TL vs 3.68 with TL/GC)

1 hour ago, phild0 said:

I agree with blade_merc in that you should kill Low first. The sooner he is dead, the better.

I just played a Miranda/Low/Jess list and the guy is now 20/3 with it, apparently. But of those three who won, we apparently all killed Low first, too. So I'm very inclined to believe you here.

Might be a bit hyper focused but might this work?

3x:
Binayre Pirate — Z-95 Headhunter 12
Ion Pulse Missiles 3
Black Market Slicer Tools 1
Guidance Chips 0
Ship Total: 16

3x:
Binayre Pirate — Z-95 Headhunter 12
Advanced Homing Missiles 3
Black Market Slicer Tools 1
Guidance Chips 0
Ship Total: 16

96 pts