Yes, mass shadows do matter. Hyperspace rules got rolled back to very early WEG days - in gravity wells and other stunts are possible, but require disabling of automatic safety systems which prevent accidents (like smashing into another ship). You have to be crazy good at what you do or suicidal to pull off some of these stunts. This was referenced by Pablo Hidalgo on twitter I think after R1 came out.

1 hour ago, Joe Censored said:

Yep I said that same thing over in the other spoilers thread. This is the issue that breaks pretty much the entirety of the wars part of Star Wars. Cheap suicide cruisers manned by 1 droid should have been the weapon of choice, and it would make no sense for the Empire or the First Order to be investing so much resources into giant capital ships. If you could weaponize hyperspace entry in this manner the entire time then fleets should be made up of mass numbers of very small independent ships which would increase their resistance to suicide cruiser attacks.

My headcanon version is that the vice admiral's suicide move was risky and not likely to work. It's probably hard to predict precisely when you will enter hyperspace from real space. She could just as likely have ended up scattered across three different systems with no damage to the enemy. Or just jumping out without hitting the target. I would wager we'll see some kind of new-canon EU explanation for why its not used as a regular tactic.

Just hope you guys know most of the established lore about Hyperspace was EU.

Like.

You can stop reciting it like it was canon.

9 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Yeah, cross fire formation and deflective plating make even less sense now.

I still want a Paige Tico crew card though.

They are both typos. They are supposed to read Defective Plating and On Fire Formation.

8 hours ago, Marinealver said:

Because Space still has gravity.

Yup that was gravity, it wasn't decompression although that would make more sense. Considering she was still breathing.

It's not so much the falling in a ship with artificial gravity that bothers me as much as the dropping of bombs in space, which has no gravity.

1 minute ago, acesandeights said:

They are both typos. They are supposed to read Defective Plating and On Fire Formation.

It's not so much the falling in a ship with artificial gravity that bothers me as much as the dropping of bombs in space, which has no gravity.

If there's gravity inside the ship (which appears standard on a ship of that size) the bombs would fall out of the ship and would accelerate as long as the bombs in the top of the rack are still in the gravity. They wouldn't hit terminal velocity or be going terribly fast, but you'd at least get a pseudo free fall effect.

It theoretically works even if it's not as efficient as a launching based system (the racks could be powered, hard to say from what little we see).

6 minutes ago, acesandeights said:

They are both typos. They are supposed to read Defective Plating and On Fire Formation.

It's not so much the falling in a ship with artificial gravity that bothers me as much as the dropping of bombs in space, which has no gravity.

hahaha I like those title adjustments.

And the bombs were dropped magnetically, the switch Paige pushed reversed polarity of the racks causing the bombs to accelerate in a downward direction, then newton's first law took over and they flew into the dreadnought.

9 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

If there's gravity inside the ship (which appears standard on a ship of that size) the bombs would fall out of the ship and would accelerate as long as the bombs in the top of the rack are still in the gravity. They wouldn't hit terminal velocity or be going terribly fast, but you'd at least get a pseudo free fall effect.

It theoretically works even if it's not as efficient as a launching based system (the racks could be powered, hard to say from what little we see).

6 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

hahaha I like those title adjustments.

And the bombs were dropped magnetically, the switch Paige pushed reversed polarity of the racks causing the bombs to accelerate in a downward direction, then newton's first law took over and they flew into the dreadnought.

Ok magnets or some gravity tech is what I figured would be the explanation. Yes is even if it works without it, it's seems like a terrible system.

Also the brings up my other problem with this scene. The launch button is a remote control in someone's pocket. Can't imagine there ever being a problem with that. "We are starting our bombing run, Hey Bob where is the launch button", cuts away to another scene of the remote sitting on Bob's nightstand.

7 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

What it's always been. Traveling super fast away from your current position. Not hard to weaponize that.

I mean...no.... hyperspace used to be a different dimension. Mass mattered, but you didn’t otherwise interact with physical objects. If you did, then you’d have to account for grains of dust floating in space cus they’d ruin your day.... Not to mention the problem of calculating a route which avoids every other starship in the galaxy.

I dunno. I’m not usually a huge physics stickler, especially with Star Wars. But suspension of disbelief only works if the movie gets you to buy into it. TLJ didn’t. (And while we’re on that, is there an explanation for why 18 hours is several days for Rey? Did they all just adapt reeeeeeally quick to 6 hour days, or what?)

3 minutes ago, Ailowynn said:

I mean...no.... hyperspace used to be a different dimension. Mass mattered, but you didn’t otherwise interact with physical objects. If you did, then you’d have to account for grains of dust floating in space cus they’d ruin your day.... Not to mention the problem of calculating a route which avoids every other starship in the galaxy.

I dunno. I’m not usually a huge physics stickler, especially with Star Wars. But suspension of disbelief only works if the movie gets you to buy into it. TLJ didn’t. (And while we’re on that, is there an explanation for why 18 hours is several days for Rey? Did they all just adapt reeeeeeally quick to 6 hour days, or what?)

Empire's continuity was a pain too.
-----
As for what hyperspace used to be, pssh, yeah I know but that was EU. If it wasn't, cite non-EU sources and I'll believe you. 'Til then, it's floaty undefined stuff.

Yeah, it’s EU. Just wish we had some sort of explanation by now, something that reconciles how all of these ludicrous jaunts are possible without making them the go-to option.

Empire had a bit more wiggle room. Luke and Han weren’t having Force conversations the whole time, and they spent a decent amount of time on Bespin....at the very least, I can say that I never felt like there was an issue there. It never took me out of the movie. For TLJ, it did. I’m not happy with the hand waving “eh, it’s Star Wars” stuff in this movie. In TFA, it was okay; they had a lot to do, and worldbuilding took a bit of a back seat. In TLJ, it’s veering quickly towards laziness.

As seen in the recent Rebels season, and even in R1, there is definitely a brief period of REALLY FAST acceleration/deceleration in real space before the transition to hyperspace. Or at the very least, some level of conserved momentum. Ships that actually make the jump before Devastator appears in their path make it out, ships who are in the process of moving when Devastator appears are bugs on the windshield. And like Captain Lackwit points out, that's the only thing that's "real" to SW right now, other rules people made up later are not necessarily true, we only go off what was originally shown and then since has been expanded upon. All we know is that hyperspace is effectively superluminal, and involves a lot of math. And you don't want to "hit" certain things.

The Raddus would have had to position itself so make sure it's acceleration hit the enemy precisely, probably aided by the fact that the Supremacy and the Raddus are both very large. We don't know if you can be precise enough to hit smaller ships at different ranges, least not where your very obvious attack can be detected. Hux hubris is what allows the Raddus' trick to work. If he had broken off attack or intensify forward firepower, would it have done so? There was a lot of probably near luminal shrapnel involved, slashing up First Order cruisers left and right, what happens if you in a crowded fight with the enemy?

Though personally, all that doesn't matter. It's a memorable, visually striking scene. It's beautiful shot, set up, and has great thematic impact. The old will eventually pass. Acting to destroy gets you destroyed, but if you act to save, things can be preserved. Lots of other real key stuff to the thematics of the film. It encompasses Holdo's character (as far as we can tell anyway), she does what she thinks is right and sacrifices a ship and herself so the people under her command can continue, as opposed to Poe's schemes which save their ships and materiel, but at the cost of risking men that can't be replaced.

The pragmatic stopper here is that to do it she needed to "spend" a massive, prototype ship to try this move. One that is very irreplaceable (probably literally, It might have been the only one built and Leia saved it from mothballs) you can't do this trick every day.

1 hour ago, acesandeights said:

They are both typos. They are supposed to read Defective Plating and On Fire Formation.

It's not so much the falling in a ship with artificial gravity that bothers me as much as the dropping of bombs in space, which has no gravity.

That is not technically true. Gravity exists everywhere. Every object in the universe exerts a gravitational pull on every other object proportional to its mass and the distance between them.

They were relatively close to a planet, and they were dropping the bombs on a very large ship(filled with the ubiquitous artificial gravity Star Wars has). Plenty of plausibility for there to be gravity.

Of course the technical books on the bomber state that the bombs use artificial gravity generators to "launch" themselves, mimicking being dropped for real.

1 hour ago, acesandeights said:

Ok magnets or some gravity tech is what I figured would be the explanation. Yes is even if it works without it, it's seems like a terrible system.

Also the brings up my other problem with this scene. The launch button is a remote control in someone's pocket. Can't imagine there ever being a problem with that. "We are starting our bombing run, Hey Bob where is the launch button", cuts away to another scene of the remote sitting on Bob's nightstand.

well the bombadier in the other Bomber that blew up took the release off of the console. I agree it was a bit dumb to have that setup but it looks cool so... *shrug*

Well, it is quite clear that as a whole the Star Wars universe doesn't have very sensible designers for their military hardware. And the bulk of sentients are utter wussies who cave to even the slightest force, allowing the galaxy to be dominated with only a few million soldiers.

10 hours ago, mithril2098 said:

Well the visual dictionary established the bombs were sent out via magnetic Fields. And the bombs had magnetic 'seekers' that drew them to other ships. Presumably the ship had internal gravity for ease of crew movement, which probably would not effect the deployment system.

As for the hatch.. Probably was supposed to have one of those invisible forcefield containment systems like all the starship hangers we've seen in the films use.

10 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Holy crap did people forget that crewed ships have artificial gravity fields?

I gotta wonder just what kind of star wars fans some of you guys are, forgetting intrinsic qualities all the TIME...

lol top, reference below

12 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

...

Because Star Wars has and always will be WW2 physics In Space. So ships and fighters will always act like they are at sea or in a planet's atmosphere. Also why the ships when out of fuel slow down when drifting and fall behind when they were not too long ago the same velocity. Ignore the physics, I can tell you they are not there. It is all about perception and the spectacle. That is Star Wars.

Well yeah we know that. We're just saying that the tech exists to explain why that is.

Believe me, I'm that last person you've gotta tell, "Actual physics don't mean anything in Star Wars" because I know **** well they don't. However, it is pretty cool when they're applied. (Ala ships running out of fuel and being caught up to by continuously accelerating vessels, the Hammerhead ram and push, and Poe's awesome thruster breaks in the hangar that definitely terrified absolutely everybody.)

8 hours ago, RufusDaMan said:

Mass shadows

Sadly not a thing anymore in Disney Canon. The U-Wings jump between debris WHILE still beeing a few hundred Meters above ground. And Hans glorious hyperspace approach at Starkiller base.

So yeah, weaponized hyperspace pretty much breakes the setting.

19 hours ago, Hrathen said:

If you do do damage to a ship equipped with bombs roll an attack die for every bomb they can drop. On a hit the ship takes an additional damage on a crit the bomb effect happens centered on the defending ship. Yes, if you you a bomblet generator you have to roll an infinite number of dice until your ship is dead.

I think this would be a great fix to the meta. And consistent with what we saw in TLJ.

(Can you tell from the rest of this post how much I like bombs?)

If you were to do something like this, make it Hull damage only and it must be a Crit. Roll once for each card. When the new Damage Deck came out, I was hoping for dual choice cards. Like if you have a secondary weapon, Bomb, etc. Randomly select 1 and take 1 damage for each token on it and the card itself, then discard card the card completely, else some other result.

This would make sense to me, because they may have them, but not have armed them before dropping. So you need a random element to decide this.

10 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Just hope you guys know most of the established lore about Hyperspace was EU.

Like.

You can stop reciting it like it was canon.

Yeah, well, when they made everything Legends and started "deconstructing" the myth, I guess I didn't figure that Star Wars might stop looking like Star Wars.

I don't understand the hate over the WWII Bombing scene IN SPACE. There's no resistance (hehe) in space so even just a moderate PUSH as the bombs/bomblets are released would give the illusion of free-fall.

15 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

Coruscant has a planetary shield
Anything that does not can be BDZ already anyway. The point of the death star was that it annihilated planets with a planetary shield like Alderaan in one go as well. Taming in essence the core worlds.

And Snoke's ships had shields... Hyperspace Lances would be more useful than the Deathstar, and they could be disguised as anything--even the spacewalrus milk-truck.

32 minutes ago, lazycomet said:

And Snoke's ships had shields... Hyperspace Lances would be more useful than the Deathstar, and they could be disguised as anything--even the spacewalrus milk-truck.

A knife is a deadly weapon. So is a tzar bomb. Th scale is still different and that 3.5km hyperspace lance was still insignificant in power to the laser lance of a death star. So your argument is invalid in context to the use of the death star, because it ignores scale completely.

And as mentioned, every star destroy can kill all life on a planet. Delta Base Zero is basically the defining ability for that brand. ;-)

48 minutes ago, lazycomet said:

I don't understand the hate over the WWII Bombing scene IN SPACE. There's no resistance (hehe) in space so even just a moderate PUSH as the bombs/bomblets are released would give the illusion of free-fall.

The hate is easily explained: False assumptions.

"Oh, it's space, nothing should fall", once your expectation has been broken, once your moment and the pleasure from "I am feeling smarter than you" about the issue has been broken, it becomes the opposite of a pleasurable experience. And thus it will not change your mind about the experience, just making the part even less enjoyable. Seems like you need really careful with managing audience expectations in a movie or they will ***** °_^

Same can be said about the Leia scene, which plays odd because it a semi-realistic showcase of vacuum exposure, but seems to break to expectations of some, while triggering a superman meme on top. Not the best choice to handle the scene really, while the intention is imho awesome, the execution becomes awkward.

10 hours ago, UnitOmega said:

As seen in the recent Rebels season, and even in R1, there is definitely a brief period of REALLY FAST acceleration/deceleration in real space before the transition to hyperspace. Or at the very least, some level of conserved momentum. Ships that actually make the jump before Devastator appears in their path make it out, ships who are in the process of moving when Devastator appears are bugs on the windshield. And like Captain Lackwit points out, that's the only thing that's "real" to SW right now, other rules people made up later are not necessarily true, we only go off what was originally shown and then since has been expanded upon. All we know is that hyperspace is effectively superluminal, and involves a lot of math. And you don't want to "hit" certain things.

The Raddus would have had to position itself so make sure it's acceleration hit the enemy precisely, probably aided by the fact that the Supremacy and the Raddus are both very large. We don't know if you can be precise enough to hit smaller ships at different ranges, least not where your very obvious attack can be detected. Hux hubris is what allows the Raddus' trick to work. If he had broken off attack or intensify forward firepower, would it have done so? There was a lot of probably near luminal shrapnel involved, slashing up First Order cruisers left and right, what happens if you in a crowded fight with the enemy?

Though personally, all that doesn't matter. It's a memorable, visually striking scene. It's beautiful shot, set up, and has great thematic impact. The old will eventually pass. Acting to destroy gets you destroyed, but if you act to save, things can be preserved. Lots of other real key stuff to the thematics of the film. It encompasses Holdo's character (as far as we can tell anyway), she does what she thinks is right and sacrifices a ship and herself so the people under her command can continue, as opposed to Poe's schemes which save their ships and materiel, but at the cost of risking men that can't be replaced.

The pragmatic stopper here is that to do it she needed to "spend" a massive, prototype ship to try this move. One that is very irreplaceable (probably literally, It might have been the only one built and Leia saved it from mothballs) you can't do this trick every day.

Agreed.

20 hours ago, Marinealver said:

Because Space still has gravity.

Yup that was gravity, it wasn't decompression although that would make more sense. Considering she was still breathing.

I mean, ships in star wars have artificial gravity, what's your point?