As a new player to the system, I'm wondering how others interpret multiple successes or failures on a check. If I try to repair a blown out generator on my orbital craft, and I roll 3 failures and 3 advantage, what exactly happens? If I roll 3 successes to sneak my way into a building, how does that make a huge difference compared to one success?

I’d say you fail to repair the generator but find a way to stabilise your orbit and scavenge enough emergency power to send a distress signal.

It depends on the situation. Degrees of success can indicate better success/failure where appropriate. In this system it’s also popular to fail forward, so multiple failure can often mean you successfully complete a task but it takes much longer.

In your example of the blown out generator perhaps the failure is a heap of wasted time, it takes hours of putting the generator in wrong before finally getting it right, everyone suffers from reduced oxygen and takes a Wound or 3. But the Advantages are you got the power couplings just right, the next person to use something power based gets a Boost to their check. Your crew is also really relieved you finally figured out how to get the new one working, a pat on the back and a nice cold beverage is there for you recovering 2 Strain.

In the Stealth example your higher success could bypass some other security check, your able to slip through a locked door on the coat tails of a staff member. Or maybe you timed everything perfectly to get exactly where you needed to be with time to spare, a Narrative benefit that gives you options you may not have had otherwise.

37 minutes ago, PolterGhost said:

If I roll 3 successes to sneak my way into a building, how does that make a huge difference compared to one success?

since all other successes were possibly eliminated by difficulty and/or setback dice you have done very well

not knowing the exact circumstances and modifiers, as i gm i would judge that you dont get noticed with Cunning 1-3 for passive search, for an active search i would let them roll against 3 difficulty dice.

Alright. I might sound like an heretic but I do find this part of the system cumbersome.

Instead of helping me tell a better story, the fact that I am meant to constantly interpret the remaining Advantages or both Triumph or Despair separately consumes in my mind too much of my mental resources. Rather than telling a "good story", I find myself trying to make the story fit the dice instead which is sometimes awkward. It's a great system on paper but in practice there is a stage at which I run out of steam when it comes to creatively describe the outcomes of dice rolls. See this as a limitation as me as a GM or me misunderstanding the system.

I am therefore toying with the idea of radically altering the system in the following way:

1. Let the player describe his character action and decide what are the likely positive or negative consequences of his action. This is not as formal as it sounds. In most cases, the consequences of the action are implicit and pretty obvious in the description of the action itself.

For example, if the player says “ I try to sneak past the guard” the obvious consequences are a) he sneaks unnoticed or b) the guard notices him.

2. Assemble the dice pool as per the rules using characteristics/skills/talent & setback and boost dices based on the narration

3. Interpret the dice roll as follows . Net the Failures against the Success. Triumph and Despairs count. If there is one Success or more left, the action is a Success (go to step 4a). If not, it is a Failure (go to step 4b).

*** 4a. The action is a Success. ***

1. Look for Triumphs. Each Despair offset one Triumph. If there is still one Triumph left, the action is a Critical Success. Not only does everything go according to plan (the positive consequences) but it works even better than expected. A superb victory.

For example: Not only does the character manage to sneak past the guard unnoticed but the latter is too busy watching a captivating show on TV to be of much use for the next 5 minutes.

If not, move to step 2.

2. Net the Threat from the Advantages. Triumph and Despairs count.

- if there is still an Advantage left, the action is a Success . Everything goes according to plan and the character enjoys the positive consequences of his action. In short, the character gets what it wants

For example: The character sneaks past the guard unnoticed.

- if there is no Advantage left, the action is a Partial Success. The character gets what he wants but not everything goes as planned. For example

• The character does not get the entirety of the positive consequences.
• It cost the character something to achieve (let him chose).
• An opponent get some form of advantage from the character action.

For example: The character sneaks past the guard unnoticed but in doing so he leave the door of the cupboard he was hiding into ajar. The guard notices it and decides to investigate why the door is open.

*** 4b. The action is a Failure. ***

1. Look for Despairs. Each Triumph offset one Despair. If there is still one Despair left, the action is a Critical Failure. Not only does the character suffer the negative consequences of his action but it is even worse than expected expected. A total disaster !

For example: As the character dashes from the cupboard he was hinding into, he does not notice the broom that had been left outside which catches him in his feet. The character falls prone on his face with a loud “thud”.

If not, move to step 2.

2. Net the Advantages from the Threat. Triumph and Despairs count.
- if there is still an Threat left, the action is a Failure . The character suffers the obvious negative consequences of his action. In short, the character gets what was obviously waiting for him.

For example: As the character dashes from the cupboard, the guard spins around an notices him immediately.

- if there is no Threat left, the action is a Partial Failure . The character has failed but it is not as bad as it sounds. For example

• The character avoid somehow the entirety of the negative consequences
• The character still get some form of small advantage out of the situation maybe at a cost (let him chose)
• An opponent get some form of disadvantage.

For example: As the character dashes from the cupboard, the guard spins around an notices him immediately. The guard looks pretty much flummoxed to see the character here and remains speechless with a puzzled look on his face.

Genesys is made for hacking, no ?

@Tabulazero , your table, your rules, but I have to say if you're looking to flatten the narrative dice to what is largely a net pass/fail (with some degrees of success or failure, but not crosscurrents of opposing symbols in the final roll) then there are other systems for doing so. The dice are the beating heart of Genesys. They're why I want to run Genesys despite the skimpiness of meat on its core rule bones, because what's there is built around the dice mechanics and intended to support them. I don't think what your proposing would be unworkable with the other mechanics, but frankly I think you're draining all the flavor out of the skill resolution.

That said, I haven't ruled out allowing Triumph and Despair to cancel each other, or possibly allowing the cancellation as an option.

@Dragonshadow

You raise some very valid points and I am indeed asking myself the same questions as you do but based on my first game as a GM at Genesys… I must say I was exhausted at the end of the session.

I found that I had spent more time trying to “make the story fit the dice” than actually advance the story itself. I had to stop numerous time and say “wait… err… give me 3 seconds to think how I can interpret that as a result... so we have a Triumph but no success...errrr”. It slowed the pace of the game to a crawl.

I know that the Genesys system exist for a number of years as the SW Edge of the Empire. What I would really appreciate is if a GM of Edge of the Empire could tell me how does he do it in practice.

I know, I know, we are supposed to interpret the advantages and threat in the fiction… but realistically is there a stage where you simply revert to a pass/fail system but in name ?

I am not faulting the system. I think the likely culprit is my approach to the game. First game, I decided to play by the book.... really by the book.

PS: What I find attractive in Genesys is the Setback/Boost dice mechanics tied to the narration. I find it to be a very clever way to have the narration actually have an influence on statistics.

3 minutes ago, Tabulazero said:

I know, I know, we are supposed to interpret the advantages and threat in the fiction… but realistically is there a stage where you simply revert to a pass/fail system but in name ?

I think you might be putting too much pressure on your self as a GM... and it is NOT up to you to do all the work here!

First of all the PCs should be the ones spending ALL of the advantages and Triumphs themselves (with GM approval of course). As they are the "owners" of the characters, this system lets them be the ones to embellish the "awesomeness" of their actions. So as a GM you should only be ok'ing what they want to do with them.... and not telling them what to spend them on. Although you can always chime in suggestions here or there if needed, or they get stuck.

In the end it is always going to be a Pass/Fail system when you really get down to it.... but Pass/Fail with FLAVOR !

No amount of Triumphs or advantages are going to get rid of uncancelled failures... so the PC is still going to fail the check. But it's how they fail that can get interesting!

And yes, some of the rolls can be more difficult to decipher at first (such as failure with 3 advantages and a Triumph)...but I promise it gets easier with practice. And in the first few games, if the results of the dice are going to slow or halt the narrative.... then skip it and just keep the story going. Don't let the dice ruin the experience for your table, they are there to enrich it, not bog it down.

So here is a example from my own table in the last two weeks...granted they are from a SW RPG campaign, but they port over just fine.

The Slicer was trying to get a restricted access door opened in a Mining Facility so the PCs could get inside and sabotage it. And winded up getting a failure, 3 advantages, and a Triumph!

So we know right off the bat that he does not get the door open (and wont with additional checks at my table, because why roll at all if they can just keep trying it again and again?). So I asked the Slicers player is he had any ideas... which he didn't really as he was a new player and is still learning the system, but he did want to reduce some strain as he was getting up there.

So I suggested that the encryption on the door was of a much higher grade than he had anticipated for the model of system installed (My GM use of the failure).

But, this also let the Slicer know that the system had been upgraded with an after-market encryption lay-over system. Which he knew necessitated the use of "in-the-field" booster boxes in order to keep the older system operating on the newer tech specs. And that he also could attempt to tap directly into one of these booster-boxes, and control the entire system is successfully sliced (Use of the Triumph).

This also really put the Slicer at ease, and took some of the pressure off of him. As he knew that it would allow him to access all the doors they would need with one good slice, instead of having to go door by door through the entire complex. And gave him the chance to alternate his programs to help aid him in the next slicing attempt, as he knew exactly what he was going up against now. (2 advantages spent to heal strain, and 1 to give a boost on his attempt to slice into a booster-box when he found one).

Hope this helps!

56 minutes ago, Tabulazero said:

@Dragonshadow

You raise some very valid points and I am indeed asking myself the same questions as you do but based on my first game as a GM at Genesys… I must say I was exhausted at the end of the session.

I found that I had spent more time trying to “make the story fit the dice” than actually advance the story itself. I had to stop numerous time and say “wait… err… give me 3 seconds to think how I can interpret that as a result... so we have a Triumph but no success...errrr”. It slowed the pace of the game to a crawl.

I know that the Genesys system exist for a number of years as the SW Edge of the Empire. What I would really appreciate is if a GM of Edge of the Empire could tell me how does he do it in practice.

I know, I know, we are supposed to interpret the advantages and threat in the fiction… but realistically is there a stage where you simply revert to a pass/fail system but in name ?

I am not faulting the system. I think the likely culprit is my approach to the game. First game, I decided to play by the book.... really by the book.

PS: What I find attractive in Genesys is the Setback/Boost dice mechanics tied to the narration. I find it to be a very clever way to have the narration actually have an influence on statistics.

Palomarus responded far more in the direction of "let the players carry some of the narrative weight" than I stated originally, and it's the best advice possible to help lift your burden. That said, I just wanted to add that if you really like Setback/Boost, but don't like the ambiguity of a seemingly paradoxical roll, have a look at Fate. The creating advantage mechanic is the driving force of that system. You may spend a round or two setting up a helluva whallup of an attack or a hugely prepared skill check of some other sort. It's designed to "stack the deck" but in the end, there's only failure, success, and a high success (success with style) if you exceed a check by a certain amount. Stacking bonuses (always +2 each) in Fate is a lot of fun, and the boost/setback dice bring some of that home to Genesys in addition to how the other dice work.

The person rolling is in charge of their own narrative for the positive results. The GM is by default in charge of negative ones, but can certainly entertain PCs suggestions. There is no rule that says you have to deliver an Oscar's level interpretation of every dice pool. In addition, when I prepare a game and for the checks that I know I am going to call for, as part of my session prep I always jot down a little list of a few bullet points as to what results will represent, so I'm not thinking that up after the dice are rolled, I've already got it done.

coming from star wars...

For non combat rolls, I treat multiple success as a reduction of time needed to accomplish a given task.

So if I'm repairing my ship in orbit, it'd normally take 6 hours. But if I generate 4 success, lets say I found the root of the problem and eliminated a bunch of diagnostic work, and make the repair in 1-2 hours.

If I failed, I simply did not repair the system and took the maximum time expected in the process. If I failed by a significant amount, say 4 failures, I've sliced a coolant hose and that shorted or corroded the part, either fully preventing a repair (requiring full replacement) or significantly upgraded the difficulty the next time I attempt to repair. In addition, I took the maximum time to repair and THEN some making the situation worse.

For threat on a success, I had to borrow parts from another subsystem and that system now automatically generated setback dice.

For advantage on a failure, I could lessen the amount of time wasted by a percentage.

I also feel like you don't have to let the dice rule the story. The dice are simply a mechanical effect and describe a mechanical process. 3 advantage on a roll now equates to a positive thing happening later. There's no mechanical reason why that positive thing must be defined right then and there or even that it has to be used at all. If the GM or player doesn't have any immediate idea of how to use it, just kick the can down the road and scribble somewhere "3 advantage, generator repair" and move on.

3 hours ago, Tabulazero said:

I found that I had spent more time trying to “make the story fit the dice” than actually advance the story itself. I had to stop numerous time and say “wait… err… give me 3 seconds to think how I can interpret that as a result... so we have a Triumph but no success...errrr”. It slowed the pace of the game to a crawl.

This is a common complaint, unfortunately people think they have to be super imaginative 24/7 to play this game. Not true. There is a handy chart on page 104, which has suggestions on how to spend narrative results. Most of the items in the chart can be used with any skill, with a little tweaking. But the real value of the chart is the scaling, so you have some idea of what 1A or 3A or 1T is worth in terms of narrative effect.

So given that, rather than letting the game slow down, don't be afraid to default to the chart if you're in doubt. It's no sin. Eventually you'll gain experience with the system and you'll also be in a situation where you *already know before you roll* how you'd want to spend narrative results if you got them...and those are the moments that are so rewarding (and what makes this game so enjoyable).

Basically, slow down, chill out, take the time to unlearn what you have learned You'll reap more benefits that way than trying to reinvent the system.

10 hours ago, PolterGhost said:

As a new player to the system, I'm wondering how others interpret multiple successes or failures on a check. If I try to repair a blown out generator on my orbital craft, and I roll 3 failures and 3 advantage, what exactly happens? If I roll 3 successes to sneak my way into a building, how does that make a huge difference compared to one success?

Per the rules, if you roll 1, 2, or 147 failures the result is the same; the roll fails. There aren't any "degrees of failure" in the system with some very rare and specific exceptions spelled out in some of the Star Wars RPG adventure modules. If you want to go that route, you certainly can. Me, I prefer it to just be a failure. In my mind, the PC failed the check, no sense in beating them over the head with the amount of failure. Besides, that's what Threat and Despair are for.

Failure with 3 advantages on the repair roll would be a failed check but perhaps some progress is made, giving the character a boost die or an upgrade on their next attempt to repair it. It could also be that the repair actually worked (if it's important to move the story along), but it's only going to work until the end of the encounter. After that, it will burn itself to slag and need a complete replacement.

Success is a different matter. There are frequently degrees of success built in to skill checks; damage and healing checks being the most common. What happens with extra successes depends on the skill, and often the skill description has some suggestions in the Star Wars RPG. Sadly, that doesn't seem to have carried over to Genesys, perhaps due to space limitations...

In the case of Stealth, Star Wars suggests that extra successes can be spent to help allies who are infiltrating with the acting character. Either count those successes against the allied character's Stealth check, or simply say that the Stealth check covers one additional ally per net success.

It sounds like the symbols might be giving you some fuss. A quick, easy idea on how to view the symbols. Also, always utilize the in book charts on symbol use.

Success/Failure: They control the Action and are the Pass/Fail mechanic. Nothing else should override this. So don't let Triumphs become successes on a Failed roll.

Advantage/Threat: This is where a lot of modifiers towards actions comes in. Time (done faster, taking longer), Environment (Setting off an alarm, clearing a path, etc.), and generally some "Bonus" effects. (Finding something cool or helpful but not THE Thing/McGuffin/etc.,). With enough Advantage/Threat, you might like to allow something that a Triumph/Despair might feel more appropriately for, but the general feel right now is that 5+ is equal to 1 on that. These should feel like something cool/interesting or something annoying/inconveinently happening. Finding a dollar on the street or stubbing your toe....

Triumph/Despair: Big changes of Luck, that Opportune or Inopportune Time for things to happen, doing something "Cool" (even if it might seem a bit absurd). These should feel like something amazing or terrible happening. Hitting a jackpot or breaking a foot. These are great at opening other avenues for the players that they might not have been looking for or expecting (and that could even have a bad twist). Despairs are good at getting them out of the frying pan and into the fryer. Big use I love is calling for Reinforcements, although sometimes I'll push that with 3 Threat in a lengthy fight.

I hope this was something you were looking for. If not, just discard.

@DarthGM is right.

1 failure = fail.

5 failure = 1 failure = fail

10 failure = 1 failure = fail

100 failure = 1 failure = fail

I had the same thinking early on - what does fail 3, 3 adv mean on a check and is it like a d20 roll vs DC18? The trick I think is to firstly understand that fail is simply a state of being, a binary with out depth; and that it's not the same as not making a DC.

In your original example; the orbital generator isn't repaired but with 3 adv you might be able to route power to a backup system that will give you X hours of life support or keep you dead "in the water" but without the ability to manoeuvre or anything like that.

1 hour ago, DarthGM said:

Per the rules, if you roll 1, 2, or 147 failures the result is the same; the roll fails. There aren't any "degrees of failure" in the system with some very rare and specific exceptions spelled out in some of the Star Wars RPG adventure modules. If you want to go that route, you certainly can. Me, I prefer it to just be a failure. In my mind, the PC failed the check, no sense in beating them over the head with the amount of failure. Besides, that's what Threat and Despair are for.

Failure with 3 advantages on the repair roll would be a failed check but perhaps some progress is made, giving the character a boost die or an upgrade on their next attempt to repair it. It could also be that the repair actually worked (if it's important to move the story along), but it's only going to work until the end of the encounter. After that, it will burn itself to slag and need a complete replacement.

Success is a different matter. There are frequently degrees of success built in to skill checks; damage and healing checks being the most common. What happens with extra successes depends on the skill, and often the skill description has some suggestions in the Star Wars RPG. Sadly, that doesn't seem to have carried over to Genesys, perhaps due to space limitations...

In the case of Stealth, Star Wars suggests that extra successes can be spent to help allies who are infiltrating with the acting character. Either count those successes against the allied character's Stealth check, or simply say that the Stealth check covers one additional ally per net success.

"Fortunately for your character, multiple net Failure symbols
do not influence the magnitude of the failure." p.12

7 hours ago, whafrog said:

This is a common complaint, unfortunately people think they have to be super imaginative 24/7 to play this game. Not true. There is a handy chart on page 104, which has suggestions on how to spend narrative results. Most of the items in the chart can be used with any skill, with a little tweaking. But the real value of the chart is the scaling, so you have some idea of what 1A or 3A or 1T is worth in terms of narrative effect.

So given that, rather than letting the game slow down, don't be afraid to default to the chart if you're in doubt. It's no sin. Eventually you'll gain experience with the system and you'll also be in a situation where you *already know before you roll* how you'd want to spend narrative results if you got them...and those are the moments that are so rewarding (and what makes this game so enjoyable).

Basically, slow down, chill out, take the time to unlearn what you have learned You'll reap more benefits that way than trying to reinvent the system.

This is good advice.

As someone who has both GMed and played in the EotE system for a couple of years now...

• Use the provided charts for uses of advantage, threat, triumph and despair.
• Look to the specific skill descriptions (or even the descriptions from EotE) for other uses for the above, as well as additional successes or failures
• You MUST get your players to join in with suggestions for what the results can mean.
• Also, solicit them for when and why Boosts or Setbacks can be added to checks, and encourage them to suggest Setbacks even on their own checks by pointing out that many of the talents in the game improve your character by allowing you to remove Setbacks, and if you don't see many Setbacks on checks, those talents all become useless.
• As your group plays in the system more, it will become easier to do all of the above, and easier to uses the additional results for more narrative effects.
• One session isn't going to be enough to feel comfortable with all of that, but after a handful, it should start eating up both less time and less mental energy.
• Especially for non-structured encounters (non-combat) try to make time relevant. For many skills, additional success or failure translate to completing your task in more or less time, but this is only relevant if time matters. In Star Wars, I tried to embrace the feel of the films, where parties were splitting up somewhat regularly (an unthinkable thing in my D&D and Pathfinder games), and ensured that I was cutting back and forth fairly regularly (usually 1-2 minutes per character or group), to keep everyone engaged and build some tension. This way, you can have one character trying to disable a security system, while another is trying to talk their way out of a bad situation, and another is trying to blast their way into more trouble, as examples. Here, time can matter. Another way to make time matter is by telling the players that the task they want to accomplish will take, say, 15 minutes, but if they don't get it done in 12 there will be some negative consequence--that means they really need some additional successes to achieve the best result.

I concur with the advice offered by others: drawing in the players and letting them take on some of the responsibility of narrating their story helps you, and helps them. The more comfortable and familiar they are with using Advantage and Threat, the faster everything tends to move.

It also helps to quiz yourself ahead of time about ways to resolve peculiar dice rolls, like "OK, I have one failure and five advantage on a Charm check. What happens?" Then, after you decide how that plays out, replace Charm with another skill, and so on. Before long, you'll have a good idea of how to respond to those odd situations.

20 hours ago, PolterGhost said:

As a new player to the system, I'm wondering how others interpret multiple successes or failures on a check. If I try to repair a blown out generator on my orbital craft, and I roll 3 failures and 3 advantage, what exactly happens? If I roll 3 successes to sneak my way into a building, how does that make a huge difference compared to one success?

Would you mind if we use this question on The Dice Pool Podcast?

17 hours ago, Tabulazero said:

@Dragonshadow

You raise some very valid points and I am indeed asking myself the same questions as you do but based on my first game as a GM at Genesys… I must say I was exhausted at the end of the session.

Honestly, that is the fun of the session. However if you continue to do this, you will find your players start mimicking you, especially when you start handing out an extra Boost Dice for a great description of their action before they roll. Its simple carrot on a stick stuff, but its feeding a human desire to feel good. Boost Dice is a great drug to make your game better. Eventually you will get to the stage of needing to come up with a basic plot for your games, and the players do the rest.