12 hours ago, Mu0n729 said:

Hey! I got a good request for you. My local group has a few players (justifiably) starting to complain about harpoon missiles - how have they helped the Vassal season 5 players to win across the tiers?

Oh, that‘s a good one. Not so easy, but I‘ll have a look!

Edit: I have a problem with ships that can equip two missiles. Right now I get 660 from 417 squads ships with harpoons, but I know of at least 3 Gunboats that are not included. Just as a heads up - it will take a bit longer

I have to disagree with your assessment that Rebels 'dominated' the Deep Core.

If we look at the top 5 players in deep core (the ones that stayed as opposed to being relegated back to core worlds for Season 6):

Slowdive had 8 wins: 4 rebel, 4 scum

I had 7 wins all with Imperial

Kiddy7 had 6 wins: 1 rebel, 5 scum

Rinehart had 6 wins, all with Scum

Vanderlegion had 5 wins: 2 rebel and 3 scum

So, in total:

Rebels = 7 wins

Imperials = 7 wins (go me!)

Scum = 18 wins

Now I'm not saying that the other players don't count, because they are all **** good players for sure. But this is an example of how you can draw inaccurate conclusions from just looking at data (for example, meta-wing and list juggler). But just looking at this information alone, it is clear to me that Rebels certainly did not 'dominate'.

Another thing to consider for any look at data is that we are still dealing with small sample sizes.

For example, you mentioned how Soontir Fel did 'surprising' well. But that's because Biophysical won 8 games with him and did not lose any (I used him a few times and won all of mine with him and did not lose any while using him too). But that's just two players, so not surprising that it would 'skew' the data and make it appear like he's doing awesome again....although to be fair, he IS Awesome

---------

As to Quickdraw being OP. Well, yes his ability is really good, because being able to attack more than once in a turn is kind of a 'broken' ability in this game (examples: Corran Horn and Dengar.....we all know how they have dominated in metas past!)

However, I think the main reason you see Quickdraw so much is the fact that the Imperial Faction is effed up right now. The Designers have really screwed up the balance of this game, making many imperial ships next to useless. Also, with alpha strike being a 'thing' the best answer Imperials have to that is an even higher PS alpha strike. So I think Quickdraw being so common has more to do with the state of the game rather than he himself being 'OP' since most players are using him not just for his ability, but to counter very specific types of enemy lists that are so popular right now

5 minutes ago, blade_mercurial said:

I have to disagree with your assessment that Rebels 'dominated' the Deep Core.

Fair enough, but you are including mirror matches here, right?

The win percentage by faction and graph, where I made that statement, shows that rebels dominate the other factions . That does not mean that rebels dominated the deep core. That's not the same! But it does mean that rebels won more often against the other factions.
It also has to be taken together with the other data. You correctly say that the sample size is low. In the graph showing total games we also see that Scum was much more often played in deep core than the other factions. That means that just based on the number of games played alone we'd expect scum to have a higher count of wins, which is what you show (18 vs 7 and 7).

Personally I would not draw too much from the deep core. I believe that players there, like you, are more important than the squad alone. You can make Soontir work in that meta, even though most people can't.

That's also why I'm being sparse with interpretations of the data - I just present it and will definitely comment on how I got it. But I always hope that people draw and share their own conclusions a bit more often.

Grblg!

I'm currently trying to get the harpoon info for Mu0n. Found 3 exceptions, had to assume that there are more and made monster that finds all exceptions. There are 3.

Edit: Quick update, I have the data preparation ready, now with missiles (needed quite some changes, now that I have to track two different upgrades I can't use the prelabeled "upgrade" from listjuggler anymore... )

Huh. At first glance it looks like Harpoons are not that great?

I get 220 squads using 1+ Harpoon that won, versus 195 squads that lost. That's a winrate of 53%.
That combines all factions, all tiers, and mirror-matches.

Edit: that's 663 Harpoons used. In comparison, for Cruise missiles with270 used total in 181 squads, I get 98 wins and 83 losses (54%)

Edit2: Chardaan refit for comparison was used 50 times in 20 squads, and has 8 wins and 12 losses (40%)

@Mu0n729

That's what I have so far. Every bar is the winpercentage, but also has the amount of games as label because sometimes it's very low.

Edit: and for comparison, the cruise missile

On ‎12‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 4:39 PM, GreenDragoon said:

Here you go:

Win percentage for pilots based on 239 games after the FAQening on November 6th. Minimum of 10 games used as threshold. This leaves 34 pilots.

The identical/overlapping ones are Omegaleader&Lokrevenant at 40%, Talonbane & Ketsu at 45%, Ryad&Omicron at 50%, Wedge & Dengar at 66.6%.

Also interesting how Quickdraw fell to 42.6%, while Miranda and Low fell less (55.3% and 54.7%, respectively) but swapped places.

Bonus edit:

The networks for this subset

I think it's fascinating how wookies are really dominating now! Also: 19 Greensquadrons?! Maybe that points at logged games where someone was through with his 8 and played some more purely for fun?
Imperials are still QD, Vader, Inq, RAC and now also Rho squadron
Scum is Assajj, Fenn and Lokrevenant

I think its really cool to compare the loop plots both before and after the great nerfing and you see how much more open the ship choices become. I will be interested to see how long it stays that way before it consolidates back down and when it consolidates, if it is more or less open than what we had before.

1 minute ago, Gibbilo said:

I think its really cool to compare the loop plots both before and after the great nerfing and you see how much more open the ship choices become. I will be interested to see how long it stays that way before it consolidates back down and when it consolidates, if it is more or less open than what we had before.

Yes, we just have the problem that we basically need a vassal league again for a comparison. Alternatively I might do it with aggregated data from Regionals.

I already did it for nationals, which means all the work is done.

The amount of games here is huge, and yet most pilots dropped out because they had under 10 uses.

On 12/18/2017 at 4:07 PM, GreenDragoon said:

Pilot win percentage
So how about win percentages for individual pilots?
Here I decided to throw out all those that played less than 20 games. The imperial trainee for example was used 37 times, but in only 10 games (won 7, lost 3) .

Hey look! It's my TIE strikers! I'm famous! I flew them in every one of my 8 games...which means that 5 of those wins are mine, and all 3 of the losses are mine, but I sure had fun doing it! I accounted for 32 of those 37 Imperial Trainees .

...so it's probably good that you cut it out because that's some serious pseudoreplication.

1 minute ago, Parakitor said:

Hey look! It's my TIE strikers! I'm famous! I flew them in every one of my 8 games...which means that 5 of those wins are mine, and all 3 of the losses are mine, but I sure had fun doing it! I accounted for 32 of those 37 Imperial Trainees .

...so it's probably good that you cut it out because that's some serious pseudoreplication.

Your proof of concept is why I have 5 Strikers, btw!

Yes that‘s a bit of a problem. It‘s not very different from metawing, but something to keep in mind.

I am for example 8 of the 16 squads in the outer rim with 3 harpoons

17 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

Hey look! It's my TIE strikers! I'm famous! I flew them in every one of my 8 games...which means that 5 of those wins are mine, and all 3 of the losses are mine, but I sure had fun doing it! I accounted for 32 of those 37 Imperial Trainees .

...so it's probably good that you cut it out because that's some serious pseudoreplication.

The results may not be representative of the non-Vassal League total games, but that does not make the results invalid.