Could what Luke does at the end of the movie be covered by the Misdirect Power?

He's more than an illusion, he can actually affect the physical world. Also, the distances involved are a *bit* beyond what's in the rules.

Your title alone is kind of a spoiler, in that it indicated that some kind of illusion happens in the movie, BTW.

You could argue that it's a supercharged version of Misdirect, but personally I'm inclined towards describing it as a completely separate power. He did, after all, conduct a two-way conversation with both Leia and Kylo while it lasted, and if I recall correctly their lightsabers also clashed physically. Misdirect only creates illusions and makes things "invisible".

2 hours ago, Krieger22 said:

and if I recall correctly their lightsabers also clashed physically.

I'm pretty sure (though I've only seen it once) that he ducked underneath Ren's saber

1 hour ago, Darzil said:

I'm pretty sure (though I've only seen it once) that he ducked underneath Ren's saber

He kisses Leia on the forehead, and hands her the pair of golden cubes from the Falcon - which turn out to be part of the illusion.

I think it's just a all-senses illusion, myself, perhaps combined with Farsight for the communications stuff. Plus a powerful vergence to boost Force powers, lethal levels of exertion, and a destiny point flip to cover "impossible" things. Suc as affecting droids - obviously, it wasn't a purely mental illusion, because Threepio saw him, too.

I found myself entertained in the theater, but a few days later I feel like the movie is worse than TFA.

I’m really disappointed with the wishy washy plot, the Finn-Rose thing and Phasma, DJ and Snoke (all underutilized actors).

Rey trained for less than a day, so did Kylo Ren, the timeline of the film is impossible.

That’s the weak point in Empire strikes back too, Yoda trained Luke in the time between the battle of Hoth and the events Cloud City.

Also Luke should have done more during the finale.

Also a lot of deaths where pointless to the story, like Ackbars.

3 hours ago, coyote6 said:

I think it's just a all-senses illusion, myself, perhaps combined with Farsight for the communications stuff. Plus a powerful vergence to boost Force powers, lethal levels of exertion, and a destiny point flip to cover "impossible" things. Suc as affecting droids - obviously, it wasn't a purely mental illusion, because Threepio saw him, too.

Illusions are not mental phenomena though. Legends material yes, but the illusions projected by Naga Sadow during the invasion of Koros Major affected droids, implying there was actual imagery being projected. I would assume that making certain people see things would be more of a mind trick, whereas illusions would effect everyone.

3 minutes ago, BipolarJuice said:

Illusions are not mental phenomena though. Legends material yes, but the illusions projected by Naga Sadow during the invasion of Koros Major affected droids, implying there was actual imagery being projected. I would assume that making certain people see things would be more of a mind trick, whereas illusions would effect everyone.

The existing Mislead power is explicitly all mental - it only affects a certain number of targets, only works if the targets are in range, it explicitly doesn't work on droids, etc. Luke's trick let him leave behind an illusory object! Though I don't think he left footprints in the salt, and he couldn't actually affect/move/stop things (though the projection did affect people's sense of touch).

If Kylo hadn't made Hux bombard him with every gun in their attack force, they might've noticed the blaster bolts and debris passing through him. Alas, rage-filled Dark Side powers do not tend to lead to calm, methodical thinking.

FWIW, I'm pretty sure Ackbar died because Erik Bauersfeld - the actor who did his voice - died in 2016. So rather than have a sound-alike copy the original actor for a series of cameos, or have him wander around silently in the background, they let the character pass away, too.

Also, that let Vice Adimarl Amilyn Holdo take over, and it wouldn't have worked to put Ackbar in her role. Poe presumably knows who Ackbar is, if only by reputation ("victorious admiral from the Battle of Endor"), and might be more prone to following his lead, as opposed to the strange woman with no uniform and colored hair.

Based on the Leia novel, Holdo's always been weird.

Kylo trained before TFA which Luke admits to. Kylo is legit. Rey however had a couple days and is self taught which is lame as ****.

8 minutes ago, ASCI Blue said:

Kylo trained before TFA which Luke admits to. Kylo is legit. Rey however had a couple days and is self taught which is lame as ****.

No Disney hired a new fight choreographer for her she had training.

Must have hired Zaeed Masani to get her from yutz to taking out elite guard in a day or two.

Rey was already a talented fighter when we met her in TFA. If anyone in these movies is self-taught it's Luke - the only Lightsaber training we ever see him get is deflecting the bolts from that wee training ball on the Millennium Falcon. Yet Luke defeats Darth Vader.

6 hours ago, Dylan Vaughn said:

Rey was already a talented fighter when we met her in TFA. If anyone in these movies is self-taught it's Luke - the only Lightsaber training we ever see him get is deflecting the bolts from that wee training ball on the Millennium Falcon. Yet Luke defeats Darth Vader.

Defeats him after four years after their original encounter after training with Yoda for half a year and losing his hand in his first duel (not to mention a whole bunch of other **** in the EU and presumably the new canon too) and only after he pulls on the dark side. Also Rey was proficient in lightsaber combat in spite of never having handled one before; there are a dozen videos on youtube as to why fighting with a lightsaber would be very different to fighting with a staff or even a normal sword by HEMA experts.

Right, and Vader wasn't learning anything more about fighting technique in those four years? Or capable of pulling on the dark side too?

Where do we see Yoda teaching Luke Skywalker about Lightsaber combat? It doesn't seem to be his major concern in training Luke. Also, how would the sparring work with a Force ghost and one Lightsaber between them?

Finn was also proficient in fighting with a Lightsaber after just picking it up. Maybe it's just not that difficult in Star Wars fantasy world where physics doesn't work the same?

Rey clearly has fighting skills from the start, so it doesn't seem like a stretch in this universe for her to be able to adapt her skills to the weapon. Unless you just hate the idea of Rey, in which case it doesn't make any difference.

2 hours ago, Dylan Vaughn said:

Finn was also proficient in fighting with a Lightsaber after just picking it up. Maybe it's just not that difficult in Star Wars fantasy world where physics doesn't work the same?

I see the FFG game as fairly close to my vision of how it works. Anyone can swing it around (ideally with care and skill), but doing fancy stuff like throwing it, parrying ranged shots etc requires attunement to the force. Which is of course why such things are force talents in the game.

19 hours ago, BipolarJuice said:

Defeats him after four years after their original encounter after training with Yoda for half a year and losing his hand in his first duel (not to mention a whole bunch of other **** in the EU and presumably the new canon too) and only after he pulls on the dark side. Also Rey was proficient in lightsaber combat in spite of never having handled one before; there are a dozen videos on youtube as to why fighting with a lightsaber would be very different to fighting with a staff or even a normal sword by HEMA experts.

Half what? What the actual ****? Is the misconception still going around? It was just a freaking day. It is a giant, big plot hole in empire and I don't like it either, but it has been just been that little training we see on screen. I wish it would have been 6 months.

BTW, staff and lightsaber not that different either, we have HEMA and lightsaber combat experts in town. Practise beats youtube knowledge

23 hours ago, Eoen said:

Also Luke should have done more during the finale.

He said what?

On 20/12/2017 at 8:59 AM, SEApocalypse said:

Half what? What the actual ****? Is the misconception still going around? It was just a freaking day. It is a giant, big plot hole in empire and I don't like it either, but it has been just been that little training we see on screen. I wish it would have been 6 months.

BTW, staff and lightsaber not that different either, we have HEMA and lightsaber combat experts in town. Practise beats youtube knowledge

This point was brought up by Leland Chee (the guy who was, at least prior to Disney, responsible for keeping star wars continuity). The Falcon flew from the Hoth system to Bespin mostly on sublight. He never explicitly gives a time but states it takes a lot longer than the movie says, additionally for in-movie consistency, the dates given for ESB and RotJ are a year apart, and if you just take the time displayed in the movies makes absolutely no sense. As for the lightsaber stuff, I'm not particularly up-to-date with modern canon but at least in legends, the magnetic sheath which keeps the blade coherent is supposed to generate a powerful gyroscopic force so you can't just pick one up and swing it around without eviscerating yourself.

Yeah new canon doesn't mention the gyroscopic effect, Leia Han and Chewie pick up and use some in a comic for a few minutes. Chewie stinking dual wields.

In The Clone Wars and Rebels TV series, there is a lightsaber specifically introduced to canon that passes hands a lot between force user and non-force user called the Darksaber.

You can go even further back to the roots. Luke does swing it around and does not eviscerate himself in bloody Star Wars, right in the first act. And Obi-Wan is not concerned at all that Luke would kill himself. Bloody EU, that is the reason why it had to go.

On 21.12.2017 at 7:15 AM, BipolarJuice said:

As for the lightsaber stuff, I'm not particularly up-to-date with modern canon but at least in legends, the magnetic sheath which keeps the blade coherent is supposed to generate a powerful gyroscopic force so you can't just pick one up and swing it around without eviscerating yourself.

In "Trials of the Darksaber", Sabine says, that the Lightsaber feels heavier than she thought (reminding us of Lucas' idea of the pulsating energy making the blade having weight). Kanan furthter explains, that the blades are drawn together by their magnetic fields, so they stick.

Basically, that makes a lightsaber blade behave like a sharp sword blade - it has weight and it sticks when it hits another sharp blade.

And, being a HEMA trainer for over 10 years now, nobody has eviscerated themselves when swinging a sharp sword around - it's more those standing by being in danger.