23 hours ago, Sturn said:

I don't want to live on my thread anymore.

You started with an impossible premise.

You can blame Rian Johnson & JJ Abrams. It's a good place to start.

On 1/6/2018 at 2:53 PM, penpenpen said:

I like me some Shakespeare and I used to like the Lion King

Until someone pointed out how, intentionally or not, it plays like a fascist propaganda piece.

Now I can't unsee it. YMMV.

(The link is in Swedish, as I couldn't find an equally well-written one in English (but quite a few incensed alt-right rebuttals). Run it through Google translate yourselves or look the topic up in your language of choice. For the lazy here is a reddit post that makes a few of the same points but "only" goes so far as calling it conservative.)

****...

Hade inte sett den innan, men fy va den var korrekt

On ‎1‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 7:36 AM, Mark Caliber said:

You started with an impossible premise.

You can blame Rian Johnson & JJ Abrams. It's a good place to start.

This is a fantastical scifi setting. I strongly believe literally anything can be retconned.

On 12/18/2017 at 8:24 AM, Sturn said:

Force powers have taken a leap in what they can do. "I want that ultimate protection that Leia has so I can brush off huge explosions and survive in space....and she was only a force sensitive btw". or "But, Move can be used to toss aside large amounts of heavy boulders or demolish small buildings, so why can't I do it too?"

Who said she's "Only a force sensitive btw"? Just because she hasn't been trained on screen doesn't mean she has FR1. Also, she's a Skywalker and now an NPC. Maybe there's some new EU lore that torpedoes that view? Mechanically, she used some version of the Protect power to survive the blast damage, then took a buttload of strain and wounds from vacuum & suffocation during the round she was exposed and used move get to the airlock. She spent most of the rest of the film recovering.

Rey lifted some rocks (total equivalent to about Sil 2-3) she was at engaged range with at the dramatically appropriate moment. How is that even an issue?

So, here's the thing I don't get with the whole "Leia brushed off a huge explosion and survived in space" whining...

1: She hardly "brushed off a huge explosion"... She was in the other end of the bridge when that explosion happened. And she was bracing for it.
2: She survived in space, yes. But so could you! Contrary to popular belief, you don't expand and explode in the vacuum of space. Nor do you insta-freeze. You can survive for a few minutes.
3: It's not like she gets away with it unscathed. She's unconscious and wounded when they open the airlock door. She's immediately rushed off to the infirmary for immediate treatment.

But people are treating it like she got a minor nick from a paper-cut and walked away scott-free.

As for her force power, it was a simple pull. In the vacuum of space, things essentially have no friction, so moving a human sized object shouldn't be that hard... and she's pulling on the ship, but the ship is bigger... so she's the one that moves...

17 minutes ago, OddballE8 said:

So, here's the thing I don't get with the whole "Leia brushed off a huge explosion and survived in space" whining...

1: She hardly "brushed off a huge explosion"... She was in the other end of the bridge when that explosion happened. And she was bracing for it.
2: She survived in space, yes. But so could you! Contrary to popular belief, you don't expand and explode in the vacuum of space. Nor do you insta-freeze. You can survive for a few minutes.
3: It's not like she gets away with it unscathed. She's unconscious and wounded when they open the airlock door. She's immediately rushed off to the infirmary for immediate treatment.

But people are treating it like she got a minor nick from a paper-cut and walked away scott-free.

As for her force power, it was a simple pull. In the vacuum of space, things essentially have no friction, so moving a human sized object shouldn't be that hard... and she's pulling on the ship, but the ship is bigger... so she's the one that moves...

Shush, you, with your common sense and logic. Such things are unwelcome because Diznee teh suxxorz.

1 hour ago, OddballE8 said:

2: She survived in space, yes. But so could you! Contrary to popular belief, you don't expand and explode in the vacuum of space. Nor do you insta-freeze. You can survive for a few minutes.

Care to cite a reference? All the googling I've done, which I'll admit is hardly scientific, suggests a much shorter timespan than minutes.

32 minutes ago, themensch said:

Care to cite a reference? All the googling I've done, which I'll admit is hardly scientific, suggests a much shorter timespan than minutes.

He said survive not staying conscious.
Her some basic nerd-stuff on vacuum exposure, still just popular science and good enough. And as always: Remember to breath out getting tossed out of an airlock. ;-)

3 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

He said survive not staying conscious.

I'm not sure where you picked that up from me, I didn't say anything about consciousness. Googling "how long can a human survive in space?" gave a lot of answers of "a minute tops." Of course, if you put a breath mask on, you're fine, or if you're riding a space whale you are immune to vacuum. So the answer for the game once again comes down to "about as long as 1 plot."

Please notice that my Leia statements were in quotes. I was quoting a hypothetical exaggerating player (not my own beliefs) and hoping someone here would give some good responses for said hypothetical player.

Thanks for finally getting things back on topic!

On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 9:13 AM, Sturn said:

I don't want to live on my thread anymore.

Sadly, that tends to happen when you've got a bunch of hurt fanbois that are more interested in bashing something they don't like just because it's not what they were expecting rather than having an intelligent discussion on the topic at hand.

13 hours ago, themensch said:

Care to cite a reference? All the googling I've done, which I'll admit is hardly scientific, suggests a much shorter timespan than minutes.

This good enough?

1 hour ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Sadly, that tends to happen when you've got a bunch of hurt fanbois that are more interested in bashing something they don't like just because it's not what they were expecting rather than having an intelligent discussion on the topic at hand.

If they pay attention to social media, the last few years have been a rough time to be a creator working within a popular franchise. "The Force Awakens" was "the Original Trilogy repackaged" and now "The Last Jedi" is "too different/changed too much." There's a reason why I prefer professional artistic criticism and a bit of dispassionate analysis over fevered and emotional Internet fanboism. You give 'em what they claim they want and then they say they didn't want it.

Everyone needs to be reminded that Episode IV started with C3PO effetely flailing around and Han encountering a greedy guy named Greedo, Episode V had Luke training with Yoda for - what - twelve hours (two days?), Episode VI had (trumpets) Ewoks, and the prequels were scripted by a man who people were afraid to say "no" to.

Just going to weigh in on Hyperspace Ramming.

A few points to make it virtually impossible but also probable in terms of Movie;

1. Requires a ramming ship with enough mass to require a long real-space ramp up before entering hyperspace.

2. Requires a ramming target of significant mass to create a Large hyperspace mass shadow, ie it has to exist both in real space and hyperspace.

3. Requires active pilot to both continuously disable and work around hyperspace safety control mechanisms, while also timing the jump to both enter hyperspace precisely when entering the mass gravity effect of the target, and dropping out of hyperspace at the exact moment of gravitational interference to avoid simply being thrown off course within hyperspace by the target mass. (roll impossible computer check followed by 2 impossible astrogation checks).

4. Requires complete safety during the round (or 3) prior to the jump, as any incoming fire would affect the jump calculations enough to make it literally impossible.

On 1/11/2018 at 3:09 PM, themensch said:

Care to cite a reference? All the googling I've done, which I'll admit is hardly scientific, suggests a much shorter timespan than minutes.

Survival in the vacuum of space was one of the questions fielded to Pablo Hildalgo when Kanan did it in Rebels. He made a point of answering that modern science shows that a human can survive several minutes in the vacuum of space without protection. I assume he was pre-answering the Liea questions.

40 minutes ago, Eoen said:

Survival in the vacuum of space was one of the questions fielded to Pablo Hildalgo when Kanan did it in Rebels. He made a point of answering that modern science shows that a human can survive several minutes in the vacuum of space without protection. I assume he was pre-answering the Liea questions.

Possible that they were front-loading the idea with that part of the episode, as well.

12 hours ago, Silidus said:

Requires active pilot to both continuously disable and work around hyperspace safety control mechanisms

At least in smaller ships, it seems as if the pilot has to actively disengage the Hyperdrive at the exact moment. We even get some count-down on various occations before pushing the lever. The question here would be, why that cannot be done by automated systems or Droids ...

2 hours ago, Sunrider said:

At least in smaller ships, it seems as if the pilot has to actively disengage the Hyperdrive at the exact moment. We even get some count-down on various occations before pushing the lever. The question here would be, why that cannot be done by automated systems or Droids ...

Real-world planes are highly automated but still operate with pilots. It's another layer of safety.

1 hour ago, Stan Fresh said:

Real-world planes are highly automated but still operate with pilots. It's another layer of safety.

Could be - but with the reliability of Astromechs and Droids in general, it seems a bit odd. Especially, if the drop-point is so important, why still rely on the pilot? Computers are way more exact.

IMHO there's a bigger hole than a Hyperspace-Ram: One needs a Navicomputer to get the coordinates - but the pilot has review and punch them manually into the Hyperspace-system? And then he has to engage and disengage the drive?

10 minutes ago, Sunrider said:

IMHO there's a bigger hole than a Hyperspace-Ram: One needs a Navicomputer to get the coordinates - but the pilot has review and punch them manually into the Hyperspace-system? And then he has to engage and disengage the drive?

Perhaps a safety step so an enemy hacker can't easily negate your flagship during the battle by simply sending it off into hyperspace. Star Wars has quite a few tech issues that can be explained away with the Battlestar Galactica concept of fear of total automation.

16 minutes ago, Sunrider said:

why still rely on the pilot?

Because it's a pulp adventure story about people doing cool ****.

There's only so far you can get here analyzing things from an in-universe perspective before you have to acknowledge that it's a story constructed to evoke certain feelings in you.

9 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

There's only so far you can get here analyzing things from an in-universe perspective before you have to acknowledge that it's a story constructed to evoke certain feelings in you.

Precisely. Isn't it funny how one kind of thing gives rise to 'they ruined SW' and another just gets overlooked?

1 minute ago, Sunrider said:

Precisely. Isn't it funny how one kind of thing gives rise to 'they ruined SW' and another just gets overlooked?

I think a lot of those complaints are constructed backwards, in the spirit of: Let's look for reasons why the movie was bad so that I can post some hate screeds online!

As the OP I was simply asking for ammo to help with some of the issues that I thought could come up in future game sessions due to this movie. I had my own ideas on how to "explain away" a few of these, but hoped for some input from smarter folks here. Frankly, the debate over the quality of the movie has greatly taken away from what I had hoped for and I wish posters would take that crap to one of several other threads actually intended for such.

Yeah, but it's important to make people who enjoyed the movie understand that they are wrong, and if that means spamming every thread, then that is a sacrifice that must be made !