10 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

You just had a movie with a massive hyperspace collision, spreading hypermatter over thousands of cubic kilometers

But that collision happened DURING the jump to lightspeed.

In Rogue One, the Star Destroyer comes in from the same direction the Rebel ships are escaping to, and they don't crash into each other during transit.

It's more complicated than it seems!

Again, I haven't seen the movie yet and I've been avoiding this spoileriffic thread but I just thought of a way that we can "Explain Away" the Galaxy Breaking aspects of this movie.

One word:

DISNEY!

13 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

But that collision happened DURING the jump to lightspeed.

In Rogue One, the Star Destroyer comes in from the same direction the Rebel ships are escaping to, and they don't crash into each other during transit.

It's more complicated than it seems!

"Complicated" is the nature of this beast. But I think there are multiple ways to handle it, depending on the circumstances. Especially with the collision in Rogue One, that's probably the result of some Threat on a failed Astronavigation roll, or even a successful one if the ship was an NPC vessel tagging along with the PCs.

As for the "asteroids used to pull people out of hyperspace," I like the idea in general and think that it has merit in the new canon. It just needs to be a sufficiently large asteroid to trigger the hyperspace safeties, which explains why not every two-bit space-mugger is doing it: you need a lot of power to move something with a big enough mass shadow.

3 minutes ago, CaptainRaspberry said:

It just needs to be a sufficiently large asteroid to trigger the hyperspace safeties, which explains why not every two-bit space-mugger is doing it: you need a lot of power to move something with a big enough mass shadow.

You also have no control over what ships you end up pulling out of hyperspace. Could be the unarmed freighter you're expecting, could be a Star Destroyer.

42 minutes ago, CaptainRaspberry said:

Especially with the collision in Rogue One, that's probably the result of some Threat on a failed Astronavigation roll, or even a successful one if the ship was an NPC vessel tagging along with the PCs.

I think that one was a Despair, after the GM upgraded the Astrogation difficulty due to incoming ships.

I had an interesting discussion with a friend of mine (who has seen the movie) and he indicates that The Last Jedi is a good and enjoyable movie, so long as you don't try to reconcile it with the rest of the Star Wars movies . . . His specific example was that it would be like trying to fit the Guardians of the Galaxy movies in with the Star Wars franchise.

So that just aligns with my earlier suggestion.

4 hours ago, Darzil said:

I think that one was a Despair, after the GM upgraded the Astrogation difficulty due to incoming ships.

It could definitely be a Despair, but I think enough Threat could cause the same issue. I'm picturing a modification of the squadron rules for larger ships acting like a flotilla; in that case, the PCs (commanding one of the surviving ships) roll Astrogation to jump away. They succeed with a handful of Threat, or maybe a Despair, and would collide with Vader's Star Destroyer as it comes out of hyperspace. But with the squadron rules, you can push that damage off onto another ship in your squadron—at the cost of that ship being destroyed.

So the PCs get away, but one of the ships under their command is lost. Additional Threat could involve the Empire pulling data on their jump routes from the disabled flagship, so a later session could involve the Imperials showing up in force at their base and/or rendezvous point.

Possibly two very difficult task rolls. First, a Computer action to over-ride safety protocols so the attempted jump to hyperspace doesn't automatically fail when you plot it directly into another ship. Second, Astrogation, which is very difficult due to the need for precision (as pointed out above).

And if you are near an inhabited world with civilians at least, the war crimes trial and (if using morality) the fall to the dark side. (Pammant hyperspace accident killed billions via radiation)

On 12/18/2017 at 5:24 AM, Sturn said:

Slow-moving capital ships can be destroyed by kamikaze ships launching into hyperspace. Why haven't we seen this before?

To steal a real world reference I saw someone make elsewhere - why was flying airplanes into skyscrapers successful? Because nobody had did it before. Why has nobody done it again since? Because there are strategies and safeguards in place to respond to something like that. We've locked cockpit doors, restricted airspaces and implemented changes to flight lanes, fighter wings with orders to shoot down planes and that sort of thing.

So if the New Order sees someone setting up for a Kamikaze run like that now, they'll take action before the Rebels can implement the FTL attack. Stuff like put smaller expendable ships in the way, concentrate fire against the ship and so on.

4 hours ago, Sturn said:

Possibly two very difficult task rolls. First, a Computer action to over-ride safety protocols so the attempted jump to hyperspace doesn't automatically fail when you plot it directly into another ship. Second, Astrogation, which is very difficult due to the need for precision (as pointed out above).

I"m not sure you would need 2 rolls honestly. I mean in New Hope, Han spells out quite clearly that you need the precise calculations so you DON'T end up flying into stuff. I think the hyperspace system itself probably doesn't have any protocols like that, and just runs off the Astrogation calculations. Otherwise, his entire rant about having to wait wouldn't really be needed, as the ship would simply stop any such jump.

Of course, you can "yeah it's been 30+ years, their safety protocols have improved", and that's fair, but I'm always a fan of minimizing the number of rolls someone has to do to accomplish something. Stacking multiple rolls dramatically reduces the odds the person will actually pull off the thing they are trying to do.

On 12/21/2017 at 4:31 AM, CaptainRaspberry said:

It just needs to be a sufficiently large asteroid to trigger the hyperspace safeties, which explains why not every two-bit space-mugger is doing it: you need a lot of power to move something with a big enough mass shadow.

Plus there's the other problem that space is really freakin' big. Even if they are able to drag an entire planet into position in a space lane, the odds of a ship hitting the hyperspace shadow is pretty slim. It's like taking a water balloon and throwing onto the middle of a 6 lane superhighway. Yes eventually one of the cars will pop that balloon, but it's going to take a while before it happens.

16 minutes ago, Desslok said:

Plus there's the other problem that space is really freakin' big. Even if they are able to drag an entire planet into position in a space lane, the odds of a ship hitting the hyperspace shadow is pretty slim. It's like taking a water balloon and throwing onto the middle of a 6 lane superhighway. Yes eventually one of the cars will pop that balloon, but it's going to take a while before it happens.

And given the added velocity of the car you should NEVER try doing that, as it could potentially cause serious damage to the vehicle, and possibly cause a wreck. Given there have been a few incidents almost exactly like this, I felt it important to add a disclaimer Don't throw stuff off overpasses kids, no matter how good of an analogy for hyperspace suicide attacks it is.

1 minute ago, KungFuFerret said:

And given the added velocity of the car you should NEVER try doing that, as it could potentially cause serious damage to the vehicle, and possibly cause a wreck. Given there have been a few incidents almost exactly like this, I felt it important to add a disclaimer Don't throw stuff off overpasses kids, no matter how good of an analogy for hyperspace suicide attacks it is.

But I wanna be a suicide bomber!

4 hours ago, Desslok said:

To steal a real world reference I saw someone make elsewhere - why was flying airplanes into skyscrapers successful? Because nobody had did it before. Why has nobody done it again since? Because there are strategies and safeguards in place to respond to something like that. We've locked cockpit doors, restricted airspaces and implemented changes to flight lanes, fighter wings with orders to shoot down planes and that sort of thing.

So if the New Order sees someone setting up for a Kamikaze run like that now, they'll take action before the Rebels can implement the FTL attack. Stuff like put smaller expendable ships in the way, concentrate fire against the ship and so on.

Lets not forget that they made it a point to show that the First Order command staff thought the rebel cruiser was going to flee, and then once they realized what was happening they had an immediate response.

The ram was successful because the First Order guys got tunnel vision on the shuttles they were destroying, and because they did not think the rebels would even try that sort of desperate tactic. Had they realized even a few seconds earlier, the cruiser would have been stopped.

1. This contemplation of mass shadows is by far the best answer I've read. Conditions usually aren't right.

3. The Force should be a sweeping and miraculous power to remain interesting. I'd go so far as to say that this is the biggest challenge the audience's expectations of the Force since Empire.

4. Previous posts have rationalized this sufficiently, but did anyone else notice the bolts arc — a bit like cannonballs? Maybe it's already spelled out in press material or supplements, but that whole storyline felt like a sailing ship pursuit.

5. Fuel has never been a plot device before, but it definitely fits the setting. I actually use it as a very effective logistics tool in my game.

2 hours ago, wilsch said:

5. Fuel has never been a plot device before, but it definitely fits the setting. I actually use it as a very effective logistics tool in my game.

5 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

I think this is where I Z-formation fingersnap and claim that the Prequels aren't Star Wars or something.

9 hours ago, wilsch said:

I think this is where I Z-formation fingersnap and claim that the Prequels aren't Star Wars or something.

What gets pumped into starships through those hoses hooked up to them in various scenes in the OT?

20 hours ago, Desslok said:

Plus there's the other problem that space is really freakin' big. Even if they are able to drag an entire planet into position in a space lane, the odds of a ship hitting the hyperspace shadow is pretty slim. It's like taking a water balloon and throwing onto the middle of a 6 lane superhighway. Yes eventually one of the cars will pop that balloon, but it's going to take a while before it happens.

The thing with hyperspace lanes is ... they are lanes. Space is freaking big ... to big to catograph all of it, to big to control and patrol all of it to keep clear of mass shadows and other dangers of hyperspace.
So we have lanes, which make space not so big anymore, which helps to make the setting more focused around points of interest.

This seems btw as well how blockages work, you blockage the entry / exit points into those lanes between solar systems.

7 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

The thing with hyperspace lanes is ... they are lanes. Space is freaking big ... to big to catograph all of it, to big to control and patrol all of it to keep clear of mass shadows and other dangers of hyperspace.
So we have lanes, which make space not so big anymore, which helps to make the setting more focused around points of interest.

This seems btw as well how blockages work, you blockage the entry / exit points into those lanes between solar systems.

Yeah but I never got the impression lanes were particularly tight. It's not like we ever see ships passing each other in hyperspace randomly.

Leia surviving van either be explained as the GM wanting the drama to continue, or the player spending a destiny token or two in order to save their character from death. I didn't read it as Leia using the force, but the force saving Leia. Dunno if that helps at all but it's enough of a distinction for me.

Concerning 3., I don't have a problem with Leia surviving in the vaccum of space. An FaD PC could have a chance to survive that as well. Her "flying" is just an application of Move and there already exists a talent that allows a Force user to take less damage due to vaccum: Meditative Trance (... When exposed to vacuum, the character suffers 1 wound each round instead of 3.). It's even in a Consular spec (Ascetic) so it's quite fitting for Leia to have it. And she suffered serious damage during her space-walk (propably one or several Critical Injuries).

10 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

Yeah but I never got the impression lanes were particularly tight. It's not like we ever see ships passing each other in hyperspace randomly.

Han stated that something along the line of being a microsecond wrong about his special jump would make them crash into the planet instead. The speed is so high, the distances so fast that ships entering hyperspace even half a second apart from each other would end up with those ships being away thousands of light seconds or even billions of kilometers, depending on there hyperspace speed.
Considering that there are many different speeds, there is some order establish along the lanes, based on hyperspace factor and direction you are going.

Alas, all specific infos about that are expanded universe material.