Yeah, Blind Staffsman Donniei-chi and Captain Aimbot were a little overdone for the Chinese audience, but I get past it. I mean, it's Star Wars. They took down Imperial walkers with tripwires and rolling log traps. One would assume that the Hoth walker commanders could, you know, just stop walking. If one or two silly action scenes is the balance between good and bad, all of these movies are in the red. They definitely should have staged that Donnie Yen scene in some kind of terrain where being able to engage a half dozen stormtroopers in hand to hand combat made sense, but oh well.

Where Rogue One wins me over is in the way it engaged me from start to finish. Even if I kinda rolled my eyes at that one scene, I still cared about what was happening when the next scene rolled.

Can't really see where the FO troopers are much better though. I mean, Corporal Beatstick has a gun, and chooses to pull out his energized stick... for reasons. And the argument that the original stormtroopers weren't just as, if not more, merciless is ridiculous. George Lucas just didn't feel the need to show it onscreen, but the original film shows two separate atrocities against civilians in it.

They didn't slaughter themselves...

You're reaching way, way far into dark, dark places on this "FO Stormtroopers are harder" argument. They're nothing more than re-skinned OT stormtroopers with electro-beatsticks. Giving one of them a flamethrower doesn't make them any less of cannon fodder. They didn't win a single battle, and didn't kill anyone on Planet Death Star either.

FO troopers won both the opening scene and the ground battle at maz's castle, both onscreen. They've already doubled the OT troopers onscreen victories and have shown their brutality onscreen (complete with screaming and corpses after the fact). Yes, glowy beatstick man is dumb from a conventional standpoint but he does at least give an emotional reason for wanting to grandstand like that

secondly, ridiculous stuff is star wars. this is good, it's part of the franchise identity. But you know what star wars isn't? a "war movie" in the same vein as Saving Private Ryan or any other such absurd comparison. Part of the reason being that it is ridiculous, and Rogue 1 is no different.

which is why we have to laud Empire Strikes back. Even if the one walkers tripped on cables the crew probably didn't see and then asploded, only two go down in the movie while the rest nonchalantly march through the defenses and up to the shield generate and complete their objective while sending the rebel troopers scurrying. Not to mention Luke tried to pull the same cable **** and failed, losing his gunner. A lot of effort is put into making their threat credible, despite the goofy star wars nature.

I have never been engaged by anything in Rogue 1 that wasn't the sad unfolding of Krennic's fate or Tudyck being Tudyck (shout out to the Vader scene, of course, it just came in way too late). For me, the movie was more a low effort string of barely related events and barely there characters that spent too much time with pointless scenes and overlong fighting instead establishing its characters, threats, and tone.

"look, it's Stormtroopers lets beat them up without consequence and still expect the audience to take things seriously!"

"remember 'you'll be dead guy'? it's star wars!"

"here's Baze...what a cool gun!"

"lets establish Saw as a fanatic but let's just have him give up on life because. Did he have any purpose other than getting Jyn to the hologram that Bodhi had? Guess not!"

"let's go kill Galen Erso because???"

"c-3po and r2-d2!!! why not!?"

"look it's AT-ATs but they're like slightly different! Be intimidated by them until they're easily taken out by an X-wing and an ugnaught with a silly minigun!"

"hey we've bothered to cgi Tarkin and Vader back into the movie. Why don't we have rebel Ep IV pilots show up again even though they really don't have to, given we're plenty capable of putting tons of new pilots into scenes? Sure! What, you want to cgi them too? Nah **** that, just splice in original footage and dub over it!"

"look, red five died! REMEMBER RED FIVE!?!?!"

"Oh, Bodhi plugged a thing into a thing! let's throw a grenade near him because he has no more purpose in the story!"

"here are some deathtroopers. ain't they cool? they'll wing Cassian, kill three guys and then all die."

"Oh my, Baze has an emotional moment! Let's use it to gun down a few more troopers and then die, highlighting exactly what he did throughout the entire movie!"

etc

FO troopers won both the opening scene and the ground battle at maz's castle, both onscreen

Musta been a rough one, against all the refugees, lol. Looked like upwards of four of them had weapons. Then having to clear out the remnants of the defenders after the air support flattened the structure.

Such heroics. So many win. I mean, come on now. You ruled out Hoth because "the walkers did all the work and were more intimidating" and then try to credit the FO stormtroopers for conquering a pile of rubble, lol.

I don't get it...taking down an AT AT with wire makes AT-AT's weak?

That's a total turn on perspective I cannot get behind, and completely goes against how that scene was received by the audience in the theatre when it was released as far as I'm concerned.

Taking down the AT-AT was the last thing from easy. It was a David and Goliath moment. A bunch of speeders get killed on the way, in fact, they only get one AT-AT that way, and the next one they try ends up as a fail with Luke crashing (and his co-pilot is already dead). What exactly was easy about that?

Not to mention, the Rebel base is completely invaded, and the rebel troopers have their rear ends handed to them.

Seriously, I do not get people thinking Storm Troopers are weak. Is Han Solo supposed to suck so much that he gets killed by them? Or are he, and Luke, and basically the heroes of the original series supposed to be the kind of heroes that finally beat them? Going to have to personally go for the latter here. Aside from fun jokes, Stormtroopers throughout Star Wars are amazingly consistent when looked at in the context of the story.

1 hour ago, KelRiever said:

Seriously, I do not get people thinking Storm Troopers are weak. Is Han Solo supposed to suck so much that he gets killed by them?

1 hour ago, KelRiever said:

Or are he, and Luke, and basically the heroes of the original series supposed to be the kind of heroes that finally beat them? Going to have to personally go for the latter here. Aside from fun jokes, Stormtroopers throughout Star Wars are amazingly consistent when looked at in the context of the story.

the **** am I shooting at?

guns are just clubs with a trigger, right?

there's no way we could've seen this coming! // the greedo school of shooting

okay, and one cool one

again (third time now) nothing. wrong. with. derpy. troopers.

the problem comes from believing they lend to any kind of credible tension or dark atmosphere without first fleshing out the protagonists and the kind of peril they are in. A New Hope worked for me. Empire Strikes back worked incredibly well for me. Return of the Jedi's scenes not set on Endor worked for me. Rogue One did not work for me at all.

Wind your neck in, fickle.

You know what's funny, Fickle?

None of your limited selection of clips actually refutes my points.

RotJ - I grew up with the full original trilogy, and this was always my favorite. Criminal scum, epic space battle, and a tale of redemption that even the most evil man (well, except maybe the emperor) can choose to make good decisions and turn from their ways

Empire - it’s a classic, and the big reveal plus Hoth will always be top moments of the franchise

ANH / Rogue 1 - the nostalgia runs high with them both. ANH started it all, and Rogue One was right there in that time frame and had good characters telling the tale of the “ordinary heroes” outside of the Legends

TLJ - felt like a lot got shoved into this movie, but was still original story and delved into what has gone on in the galaxy since RotJ and works to better establish the new guard. Has it’s flaws I didn’t care for, but that’s the price of any big franchise - someone will be unhappy with it.

TFA - good movie but too much of a rehash of a new hope, plus it contains the biggest glaring problem of all Star Wars canon (specifically that monstrosity of seeing the starkiller base killing the republic from a totally different star system).

Ep3 - liked the darker feel and the rise of tyranny, felt like a commentary on what our future could be someday.

Ep2 - awful dialogue and acting on the anakin front. Ewan McGregor tries to salvage the show and is the real star. Also, points for Mandalorian.

Ep1 - Jar Jar Binks. Need I say more?

4 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Wind your neck in, fickle.

come on, man

if you can't get an substantive counter-argument I'm going to have to consider the matter ceded in my favor, and that's just no fun

(edit: and I do mean fun. It's fun talking to you guys, which is why I have too many **** posts)

Mine is:

V, R1, IV, VIII-VII (tie), VI, III, I, II

I almost see VIII being Part II to VII, so I rank them together as almost one film.

On 19/12/2017 at 4:07 PM, GrandAdmiralCrunch said:

Ratings out of 10

The Empire Strikes Back: 9.7

A New Hope: 9.5

Rogue One: 9.0

Return of the Jedi: 8.9

The Last Jedi: 8.7

The Force Awakens: 8.5

Revenge of the Sith: 8.2

Attack of the Clones: 3.5

The Clone Wars: 2.5

The Ewok Specials: 1.7

The Phantom Menace: 1.5

The Christmas Special: 0.1

The Christmas Special isn't star wars. If it was, it'd be negative infinity (at least) on the scale. I told my friend it was the worst thing I'd ever seen and was voted the worst TV film ever (it was), but after I showed it to her, she said she didn't think it would be THAT bad. ?

On 21/12/2017 at 4:20 AM, markcsoul said:

I'm sad I'm the only one who put ROTS as their #1. Such an amazing movie.

I know loads of people who agree with you. It's a really great film, it just had (to a much lesser degree than the other prequels) bad acting and too much CGI.

1. Episode V

2. Episode IV

3. Episode VI

4. Rogue One

5. Episode VII

6. Episode VIII

7. Episode III

8. Episode II

9. Episode I

This is how a sensible ranking SHOULD look like

Why? Prequels suck! They really do. And you know it. The worst movie ever was the one with Jar Jar Binks and Midi-chlorians in it.

Rogue One felt like it was made by a true Star Wars fan and it avoided too much obvious political correctness virtue signaling. There were great Starship Battles, too, including amazing T-65 XWings! Yay!

Plus it was a little "darker" with less forced comedy.

Episode VII was an okay movie. Just like Episode VIII. I would probably love both of them quite a bit more if they weren't obvious SJW agenda movies.

26 minutes ago, Schu81 said:

1. Episode V

2. Episode IV

3. Episode VI

4. Rogue One

5. Episode VII

6. Episode VIII

7. Episode III

8. Episode II

9. Episode I

This is how a sensible ranking SHOULD look like

Why? Prequels suck! They really do. And you know it. The worst movie ever was the one with Jar Jar Binks and Midi-chlorians in it.

Rogue One felt like it was made by a true Star Wars fan and it avoided too much obvious political correctness virtue signaling. There were great Starship Battles, too, including amazing T-65 XWings! Yay!

Plus it was a little "darker" with less forced comedy.

Episode VII was an okay movie. Just like Episode VIII. I would probably love both of them quite a bit more if they weren't obvious SJW agenda movies.

Why do you think ep vii and viii are "sjw agenda movies"? I mean you can dislike them, but how are they connected to politics in any way?

I am not going to tell

I might get a warning point when I discuss politics here. So I'll just say hooray! XWing rules and FFG does, too. And yes, I love you all.

I just wish I was brainwashed enough not to even notice such agendas and politics in movies. Would make things easier for me.

Please have a look at certain quotes of JJ Abrams himself, if you really care.

1 hour ago, Zura said:

Why do you think ep vii and viii are "sjw agenda movies"? I mean you can dislike them, but how are they connected to politics in any way?

What Schu81 means to say is that these movies have main characters that are not white males.

Believe it or not, some people oppose this. Therefore, these movies are pushing a "political" agenda.

Pro tip: If someone uses the phrase "sjw agenda," it's best not to engage them in discussion on the internet.

No, that's not what I meant.

I think it's great to have main characters that are NOT while males. Such as Leia in the original trilogy or Lando, just to name a few.

There is a whole lot of reasons why I think there was a lot of SJW virtue signaling in Episode 7 and 8. You can easily find out on youtube, if you care

I might even be able to send you a link, if you are interested, but I think I'll not post it here, as I try to remain out of political discussions.

Sorry for even bringing this up here.

If you love Episode 7 and 8, I am happy for you. Great to hear that. I think we all love Star Wars, and we love X-Wing and that's whats bringing us together here.

7 minutes ago, Schu81 said:

If you love Episode 7 and 8, I am happy for you. Great to hear that. I think we all love Star Wars, and we love X-Wing and that's whats bringing us together here.

This I agree with. And whatever you love in Star Wars, I'm happy that you enjoy that too. Let's leave it at that

I wouldn't say Lando qualifies as main character and neither might Leia depending on the standards you apply.

Star Wars has traditionally been a white sausagefest and that's fine, but it plays no part in making it good. New Star Wars not following that pattern doesn't make it bad, either.

Oh and please erradicate meaningless buzzwords like SJW from your vocabulary, you are more obnoxious than the people you are complaining about.

Right now, with only one viewing of TLJ, my ranking would be:

ESB/Rogue One
ROTJ
ANH
TFA
TLJ
ROTS
TPM
AOTC

For me:

1. Episode V: Still an amazing cinematic experience. Watching it for the first time as a kid was mind blowing. I rationalise the walker scene (the only major potential plot-hole in the movie) with the saying "A plan is always perfect until the enemy gets involved".

2: R1: I watched it 5 times in the cinema alone. Its got problems, but the maturity of the movie, scope of the plot and talent of the actors won the day.

3: Episode IV: It started it all, and the vision of the movie is insane, even by modern standards. It's got an awful lot of flaws, but it more than makes up for it.

4: Episode VI: In my opinion, it will always be the final episode of the saga. Numerous plots come together in unison. The only thing keeping it from the top spot for me is the Ewoks, whom I hate even more than Jar Jar.

5: Episode III: The only truly 'good' movie of the original trilogy, its still held back by cringe-worthy romance and forays into tedious politics.

6: Episode II: Worse than III, better then Jar-Jar.

7: Episode I: Jar Jar is pretty awful, yet does his job as comic relief well. Mini-Anakin is fine in my books, I just wish he was a little bit older. Duel of the Fates is one ofthe best soundtracks of all time, and the final 30 minutes of the film were fairly spot-on.

8: Episode VII: One of the worst films of all time, certainly worst so far this century. I called pretty much the whole plot based entirely on one trailer, and was thoroughly disappointed by it. Emo-Sith was worse than Anakin's emotional pains in AotC, and Rey was just another coming-of-age princess in the Disney saga. The acting was fantastic, but the characters they played contradicted themselves , let alone each other. The fights were kind of pathetic, especially the bladed combat, and "Traitor" was failed fan-service, the worst kind of cinematic failure.

9 hours ago, Astech said:

For me:

1. Episode V: Still an amazing cinematic experience. Watching it for the first time as a kid was mind blowing. I rationalise the walker scene (the only major potential plot-hole in the movie) with the saying "A plan is always perfect until the enemy gets involved".

2: R1: I watched it 5 times in the cinema alone. Its got problems, but the maturity of the movie, scope of the plot and talent of the actors won the day.

3: Episode IV: It started it all, and the vision of the movie is insane, even by modern standards. It's got an awful lot of flaws, but it more than makes up for it.

4: Episode VI: In my opinion, it will always be the final episode of the saga. Numerous plots come together in unison. The only thing keeping it from the top spot for me is the Ewoks, whom I hate even more than Jar Jar.

5: Episode III: The only truly 'good' movie of the original trilogy, its still held back by cringe-worthy romance and forays into tedious politics.

6: Episode II: Worse than III, better then Jar-Jar.

7: Episode I: Jar Jar is pretty awful, yet does his job as comic relief well. Mini-Anakin is fine in my books, I just wish he was a little bit older. Duel of the Fates is one ofthe best soundtracks of all time, and the final 30 minutes of the film were fairly spot-on.

8: Episode VII: One of the worst films of all time, certainly worst so far this century. I called pretty much the whole plot based entirely on one trailer, and was thoroughly disappointed by it. Emo-Sith was worse than Anakin's emotional pains in AotC, and Rey was just another coming-of-age princess in the Disney saga. The acting was fantastic, but the characters they played contradicted themselves , let alone each other. The fights were kind of pathetic, especially the bladed combat, and "Traitor" was failed fan-service, the worst kind of cinematic failure.

That's a bit harsh on VII - it's bad, but not worst this century. I enjoyed watching it. Where does VIII come on your list? And I like Ewoks

I haven’t seen VIII yet. That said, my rankings would be-

1. Return of the Jedi

2. Empire Strikes Back

3. Revenge of the Sitg

4. A New Hope

5. Rogue One

6. Attack of the Clones

7. The Phantom Menace

8. The Force Awakens

1. Rogue One
2. Return of the Jedi
3. A New Hope
4. Empire Strikes Back
5. The Last Jedi
6. The Force Awakens
7. The Phantom Menace
8. Revenge of the Sith
9. Attack of the Clones

Yes, I liked Phantom Menace more than Revenge of the Sith (I don't love Jar Jar, but he never bothered me; and I love Darth Maul, podracing, and Gungans), and yes, Empire Strikes Back is my least favorite of the originals (it didn't used to be, but Rogue One bumped up A New Hope).

On 12/22/2017 at 8:57 AM, Schu81 said:

No, that's not what I meant.

I think it's great to have main characters that are NOT while males. Such as Leia in the original trilogy or Lando, just to name a few.

There is a whole lot of reasons why I think there was a lot of SJW virtue signaling in Episode 7 and 8. You can easily find out on youtube, if you care

Conspiracy clickbait theorists aside, you gotta remember what we're talking about

This is Disney, the only signaling they're doing is towards cinema seating

This is also largely the reason why the Disney movies have the most untapped/squandered potential as well as some of the most pointless go-nowhere scenes to ever house things probably included only to sell toys. It's widespread market appeal to target every possible demographic. There is no other "agenda"

I find it strange that they didn't bring Lucas on, because that's really aping from his playbook