On 19/12/2017 at 1:52 PM, ficklegreendice said:

The imperial military, in spite of killing a few barely established characters, is a complete joke and Rogue 1 does nothing to reverse this opinion. Jyn and Donnie beat up armored stormtroopers with basically a truncheon and a stick, respectively.

What Jyn and Donnie do is prove their capabilities. Jyn had already proved she wasn't a pushover during the "rescue", and Donnie was quite obviously presented as having both superior training to stormtroopers and a degree of Force sensitivity. The Stormtroopers might have been armoured (not that a helmet prevents you from getting your bell rung), but were clearly not outfitted or prepared for hand-to-hand combat.

On 19/12/2017 at 1:52 PM, ficklegreendice said:

"Deathtroopers" are complete pushovers with an incredibly stupid name.

Krennic's personal guard swing the tide of the ground battle in the Imperial's favour, but are never mentioned by name or title in the film itself. Criticising them for being called "Deathtroopers" is effectively just criticising yourself for knowing more than the movie actually tells you.

On 19/12/2017 at 1:52 PM, ficklegreendice said:

Star Destroyers and apparently be rammed into one-another at a lazy speed at still someone cut through each other like one's a hot knife and the other is butter.

Have you ever seen a collision between a cargo tanker, warship or cruise ship while manuevering into or out of port? These things have such mass and momentum behind them that they can do incredibly large amounts of damage to each other even at low speeds. Look it up, there's been several examples in the last year alone (see especially the USS Porter and USS John S Mccain). Now bearing in mind that Star Destroyers are several orders of magnitude greater than the previous examples, that their superstructures are vulnerable to collisions (as previously seen in Return of the Jedi and teased in Empire Striked Back) and there's absolutely reason to doubt that the effect of two ships of that size colliding would't cause absolutely catastrophic damage.

Ratings out of 10

The Empire Strikes Back: 9.7

A New Hope: 9.5

Rogue One: 9.0

Return of the Jedi: 8.9

The Last Jedi: 8.7

The Force Awakens: 8.5

Revenge of the Sith: 8.2

Attack of the Clones: 3.5

The Clone Wars: 2.5

The Ewok Specials: 1.7

The Phantom Menace: 1.5

The Christmas Special: 0.1

25 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

What Jyn and Donnie do is prove their capabilities. Jyn had already proved she wasn't a pushover during the "rescue", and Donnie was quite obviously presented as having both superior training to stormtroopers and a degree of Force sensitivity. The Stormtroopers might have been armoured (not that a helmet prevents you from getting your bell rung), but were clearly not outfitted or prepared for hand-to-hand combat.

Krennic's personal guard swing the tide of the ground battle in the Imperial's favour, but are never mentioned by name or title in the film itself. Criticising them for being called "Deathtroopers" is effectively just criticising yourself for knowing more than the movie tells you.

Have you ever seen a collision between a cargo tanker, warship or cruise ship while manuevering into or out of port? These things have such mass and momentum behind them that they can do incredibly large amounts of damage to each other even at low speeds. Look it up, there's been several examples in the last year alone (especially relating to US Navy ships in South East Asia). Now bearing in mind that Star Destroyers are several orders of magnitude greater than the previous examples, that their superstructures are vulnerable to collisions (as previously seen in RotJ) and there's reason to doubt that the effect of two colliding would't cause catastrophic damage.

Stormtroopers seemed pretty prepared for hand-to-hand combat, given their predisposition to run towards the melee weapon wielding enemies. R1 could've just given the Stormtroopers riot gear ala Mr. TRAITOR(!!!) in the Force Awakens, but no we'll just give them rifles to make the scene seem dumb.

Krennic's personal guard don't do much other than shoot about 3 random rebel troopers, and then a blind man and eventually Baze after Baze has mowed down the lot of them. By the time Baze goes down, I'm pretty sure you don't ever see them again. They're certainly not with Krennic by the time he reaches the top of the relay.

You're right about tankers, but I also said it was lame . Disney in general has made capital ships seem like they're built out of paper mache and explosive powder, and the complete system-wide shutdown of an ISD by a single salvo from a handful of y-wings makes them seem like a bunch of wimps. The problem persists in the last jedi's hyperspace bullet, but at least there was an element of heroic sacrifice in there by a character with a few lines and at least a name (though her act of hiding info from poe was dumb)

then again, Return sorta pulled this stunt with the SSD but Return was also very silly and no one gives it the excuse of being "a war movie"

3 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Finally, I didn't say that the collision was unrealistic, I said it was lame . Disney in general has made capital ships seem like they're built out of paper mache and explosive powder, and the complete system-wide shutdown of an ISD by a handful of y-wings makes them seem like a bunch of wimps.

then again, Return sorta pulled this stunt with the SSD but Return was also very silly and had at least mentioned concentrating firepower on it.

To be fair there was plenty of focusing on that Star Destroyer in Rogue One. Raddus orders the fleet to engage them, the X-Wings take down it's shield generators (yay flight sim callbacks), then the Y-Wngs diable it with Ion Torpedoes (yay miniatures game callbacks), then Raddus notices it's been disabled and invokes Newton's First Law maggot (yay actual physics/Mass Effect callbacks).

48 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

To be fair there was plenty of focusing on that Star Destroyer in Rogue One. Raddus orders the fleet to engage them, the X-Wings take down it's shield generators (yay flight sim callbacks), then the Y-Wngs diable it with Ion Torpedoes (yay miniatures game callbacks), then Raddus notices it's been disabled and invokes Newton's First Law maggot (yay actual physics/Mass Effect callbacks).

Watching the battle again only makes me wish the filmmakers had organized it better all the more

for example: the run on the shield generator is piss easy, despite five TIE fighters tailing, and it goes down in two shots. the lead x-wing just leisurely spins to dodge fire from there pursuing TIE fighters (from before most of time were deployed) and is on his merry way. This happens BEFORE the majority of TIE Fighters are deployed.

How easy would it have been to make Red Five the one who made the successful run on the ISD and was then picked off because he was isolated? This would have made him seem more heroic for having accomplished something and the empire more competent for at least having hunted down the X-wings that destroyed the ISD's shields. Instead he dies like a fool because...we need to explain why Luke is Red 5??? It baffles me to this day

Later, the Y-wings make a bombing run after the TIE fighters have been deployed and face only capital ship fire when they fire at the ISD completely uncontested . This scene could have easily taken place before the TIE fighters had been deployed and then you'd get a natural flow of action. T he rebels get the jump on the empire and excitement builds as they use their ambush to get the upper hand. They've taken out the point-defense cannons! They've disabled an unprepared Star Destroyer! Things are looking up! Then things get tense when the shield gate disgorges TIE fighters like a ruptured hive of wasps. The situation becomes dire, necessitating the sacrifice of the Hammerhead crew for the greater good of the rebellion.

The way the batle unfolds, in addition to horribly jarring cut-ins of Episode IV, constantly interrupts the basic flow action → consequence. This made the scene seem to me less like a battle and more like a random collage of things happening, which puts R1 (for me) closer to realm of the bizarre prequels than anything.

This is all basic **** that should've been handled during story-boarding, and it's something I feel pervades most of the scenes in the movie (especially Saw's seemingly pointless half of the movie which just led to Jyn seeing her father's message). It all makes me feel like the movie might've been cut apart and haphazardly put back together, kinda like they re-shot a lot of it or something.

Maybe I'm the only one who likes the most Return of the Jedi... But... Hey! I like that film the most. Even with Ewoks. Even with the absurd plan of Luke. It still has the most intense Lightsaber fight ever seen.

1. Return of the Jedi.

2. Empire Strikes Back.

3. A new hope.

4. The Force Awakens.

5. (But in a draw with TFA, I think). Rogue One.

6. Revenge of the Sith.

7. The last Jedi.

(BIG BIG BIG Gap)

8. Phantom Menace.

9. Attack of the Clones.

1. Empire Strikes Back - Excellent movie, excellent story arcs, excellent action.

2. The Force Awakens - This is a list of my personal favorites after all. I don't need anyone's approval for where I place this movie. I loved it.

3. Return of the Jedi - The ewoks really aren't that bad and everything else about this movie is awesome.

4. Rogue One - A lot of cool action and it tells a moment from Star Wars from a different perspective. Also visually very cool.

5. A New Hope - Nostalgia factor.

6. The Last Jedi - It's an excellent movie, but some stuff just felt off about it compared to the other films.

7. Revenge of the Sith - Good moments sprinkled without and wraps up the prequels nicely.

8. The Phantom Menace - Cool action and locations. Jar Jar doesn't bother me to the level he annoys others. Guess I'm just used to it.

9. Attack of the Clones - Obi-Wan's investigation is cool and the actions scenes are neat, but the rest of the movie just gets kinda boring.

V 10/10

VIII 9.5/10

R1 9/10

IV 9/10

VI 8/10

III 7/10

VII 6/10

I 5/10

II 2/10

I think VI is underrated a lot and III gets hate just coz it's prequel. Last time I watched Phantom menace I found myself thinking "this is actually pretty good". II is easily the most boring. VII was a dumbed down IV.

I'm surprised a lot of people vote RotJ ahead of The Last Jedi. Maybe I was getting older when RotJ came out, but I was disappointed with the ewoks and all that.

1. A New Hope, Empire Strikes Back, and The Last Jedi
2. Rogue One and Return of the Jedi
3. Force Awakens
4. Ep 2 and 3
5. Phantom Menance

4 hours ago, Fred5000TM said:

V 10/10

VIII 9.5/10

R1 9/10

IV 9/10

VI 8/10

III 7/10

VII 6/10

I 5/10

II 2/10

VII was a dumbed down IV.

This.

1 hour ago, heychadwick said:

I'm surprised a lot of people vote RotJ ahead of The Last Jedi. Maybe I was getting older when RotJ came out, but I was disappointed with the ewoks and all that.

1. A New Hope, Empire Strikes Back, and The Last Jedi
2. Rogue One and Return of the Jedi
3. Force Awakens
4. Ep 2 and 3
5. Phantom Menance

This.

On 19/12/2017 at 0:57 AM, kraedin said:

1. Empire Strikes Back
2. Star Wars
3. Last Jedi
4. Rogue One
5. Return of the Jedi
6. Force Awakens
7. Revenge of the Sith
8. Phantom Menace
9. Attack of the Clones

Last Jedi rating is provisional, of course, I've seen all the others several times (hundreds of times, probably, for the OT) but TLJ only once.

Interestingly, I didn't notice I had left Force Awakens off the list until I was triple-checking. I liked it, but I probably have the least intensity of feeling about it of any Star Wars film.

And specially this.

On 19/12/2017 at 1:48 PM, Jo Jo said:

If you don't want to see Stormtroopers being a "joke" anymore, then I suggest you stop watching anymore Star Wars.

On 18/12/2017 at 4:17 PM, Lobokai said:

Amazing how much Rogue One, Phantom Menace, and Force Awakens bounces around on people’s lists.

And TLJ.

On 12/19/2017 at 10:48 AM, Jo Jo said:

If you don't want to see Stormtroopers being a "joke" anymore, then I suggest you stop watching anymore Star Wars.

Missing the point like a champ here

Storm troopers are a joke, that's kind of the theme the moment after their initial appearance. There is NOTHING wrong with that, it's as star wars as the Jedi

The problem in regards to rogue 1 being a "war movie" is you can't have said jokes comprising a significant portion of the enemy force and expect the audience to take things seriously

You HAVE to establish characters and tone to generate tensions regarding the fate of the characters in star wars (aka "what Empire Strikes Back did") partly because these rank and file goofballs aren't the least bit threatening on their own

Seriously read the posts instead of cherry picking out of context concepts

On 12/19/2017 at 9:15 AM, ficklegreendice said:

Instead he dies like a fool because...we need to explain why Luke is Red 5??? It baffles me to this day

Probably one of my least favorite moments in Rogue One. First, because of the Exploding Fat Guy running joke in Star Wars and because it's so ridiculously unnecessary. I loved most of the callbacks in Rogue One. Even Weirdnose and Buttface showing up to be jerks. I absolutely loved them taking unused footage of Red Leader and Gold Leader to insert them into the battle. I only wish they'd had some unused footage of Biggs or Wedge.

Red Five's death was just so jarringly pointless. With all the fighters exploding in this movie, do we really have to fill in any gaps that there might be a callsign or two available in Red Squadron after the battle? And I agree, if we're going to kill off Red Five, he should be in the movie more than just for the sake of dying. There are plenty of throwaway pilot cockpit shots in this movie. Surely Red Five can get more than one of them. And not be Comical Fat Guy pilot too. If I were to ever do a fan edit of the film, and I wouldn't because that seems like a lot of work, I'd just snip that scene out. Along with the pointless "choke on your aspirations" scene. And it will pain me to cut out that brilliant visual of Darth Vader in the bacta tank, but that scene is terrible, and contributes nothing to the narrative. Plus, his appearance would have ten times more impact if the first time we see Darth Vader is when his star destroyer shows up to ruin everyone's day.

I'm sad I'm the only one who put ROTS as their #1. Such an amazing movie.

1. Star Wars (ANH)

2. RotJ

3. ESB or TLJ

Everything stands on the shoulders of ANH. Without it, the rest simply cannot stand as stories. Empire is very much a bridge - a vehicle to transition from a standalone story (Star Wars) to a trilogy. TLJ suffers this same problem, except it's the transition from simple Campbellian myth to... something else? Time will tell.

1. ROTJ
2. TLJ
3. TFA
4. ESB
5. TPM
6. ANH
7. Rogue One
8. ROTS
9. AOTC

Sue me, TPM has gained some nostalgia points for me.

8 hours ago, Wondergecko said:

1. Star Wars (ANH)

Everything stands on the shoulders on ANH. Without it, the rest simply cannot stand as stories.

This guy gets it!

20 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

This guy gets it!

Lol! I've said this too forever.

10 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Missing the point like a champ here

Storm troopers are a joke, that's kind of the theme the moment after their initial appearance. There is NOTHING wrong with that, it's as star wars as the Jedi

The problem in regards to rogue 1 being a "war movie" is you can't have said jokes comprising a significant portion of the enemy force and expect the audience to take things seriously

You HAVE to establish characters and tone to generate tensions regarding the fate of the characters in star wars (aka "what Empire Strikes Back did") partly because these rank and file goofballs aren't the least bit threatening on their own

Seriously read the posts instead of cherry picking out of context concepts

Everyone but Jyn and Cassian get killed by the rank and file of the Imperial war machine. I dunno, the movie felt pretty tense to me even though you knew they are going to be successful. It wasn't to the intensity of say Dunkirk, but I was enthralled with what was happening the last act of the film.

I think we readily establish in every movie of the movies that Storm Troopers > any regular troop including the rebels, and Heroes > Storm Troopers.

Storm Troopers win every ground battle they are involved in, except on Endor. I know its funny to watch a million blasters miss Han as he runs through the station, but that's because Han is amazing, and probably The Force. Not that Storm Troopers are terrible.

Maybe if a hero got killed by a Storm Trooper everyone would feel happy about it? The Storm Troopers may look cool, but let's remember, they aren't supposed to beat the heroes, not in the end. Not in Star Wars.

And I think the Star Wars series goes a long way to have entire movies where the bad guys are not defeated. Or arguably still have the upper hand. Empire, Last Jedi, Sith (cough I hate that last movie but still).

Joking about Storm Troopers is just Star Wars fun

1. Holiday special.

2. Ewok adventure.

This is a tough question. I love them; all of them. It's hard to pick a favorite. Instead, I think the only way I can rank them is to answer the question, "If you had a spare 2.5 hours, which Star Wars movie would you pop into the DVD player?"

1. The Force Awakens
2. Rogue One
3. Revenge of the Sith
4. A New Hope
5. The Empire Strikes Back
6. Return of the Jedi
7. Attack of the Clones
8. The Phantom Menace

Unfortunately, The Last Jedi is so new, that it makes the top of this list because I am just not familiar with it yet, and I want to be. But it's so new that it doesn't provide a fair ranking against the others.

To add context to the original trilogy rankings: I watched them in rotation, one film each morning, for the entire summer of 1996. That was my true introduction to Star Wars (I think I was going into the 6th grade at that point). Unbeknownst to me at the time, the Special Edition was right around the corner. I had the entire dialogue memorized for all three movies, and was so excited to get to see them on the big screen. While I still absolutely love and respect them, there is an element of boredom after watching something so many times. In the end, the new hotness becomes preferred over the old, familiar stuff.

And Revenge of the Sith is just plain awesome!

1 hour ago, KelRiever said:

I think we readily establish in every movie of the movies that Storm Troopers > any regular troop including the rebels, and Heroes > Storm Troopers.

not really

see, the Storm Troopers only ever really won the engagement on the cr-90. They kill absolutely nobody on the Death Star.

On Hoth, they don't appear until they storm the base after the AT-ATs (far more intimidating enemies than them) did all the work. On Cloud City, they just get shot at and let the heroes escape. Empire Strikes Back instead used other, far more intimidating foes (Vader especially, but also Boba) to illustrate the might of the empire

On Endor, the rebels surrender without the Storm Troopers ever firing a shot thanks to numbers. Then the cannibal teddybears attack and beat them with sticks and rocks. They are soundly defeated on the ground despite vastly outnumbering the rebels.

In Rogue 1, they get manhandled by a truncheon and a stick. On Scraiff, the fighting continues until the Death Star does all the work

FO Stormtroopers have been shown to be far more competent, having only been defeated at Maz's Castle after the resistance X-wings flew in and on the supremacy after the monster-droid BB-8 hijacked a walker (albeit only after the dang ship began falling apart so it was an understandable defeat). Phasma, however, carries on the OT stormtrooper spirit even if the Last Jedi tried to make her look badass in a pretty nice fight scene.

But see, the Force Awakens went out of the way to establish that these FO troopers weren't just jokes. the movie's opening is the first time we see one bleeding and one suffering a traumatic experience, also several of them remorselessly gunning down unarmed fighters and civilians after they had surrendered. Mr. "TRAITOR!" puts a lot of emotion into his one line, and also manages to fight + kick Finn's ***. Then there's stuff like the reveal that the FO kidnapped and indoctrinated children, and the scene of the troopers about-facing when they catch sight of Kylo's tantrum.

This isn't to say that the movie doesn't also poke fun at them (the bowcaster scene especially), but the Force Awakens does a lot to establish its troopers as more competent than cannon fodder and more human than faceless goons. Granted, the Last Jedi does nothing with them (apart from the supremacy, they just waltz into the old rebel base after it has been evacuated), but it's still an admirable set-up.

If storm troopers had gotten the Force Awakens treatment in Rogue 1, or any other sort of effort put into them whatsoever, the atmosphere would have been far improved imo

edit: speaking of the Force Awakens treatment of the FO troopers, that only makes me even more disappointed at what a waste Finn's storyline and the Finn/Phasma fight was. Such potential and nothing came of it

Empire Strikes Back : 9.5
Rogue One : 8.5
Return of the Jedi: 8.5
Revenge of the Sith : 7.5
A New Hope : 7.0
The Phantom Menance: 6.0
Attack of the Clones: 4.0
The Force Awakens: 3.5
The Last Jedi: 2.0