ive been reading up on the seven seals concept in theology and well theology in general and as i was reading i kept getting this idea in my head for a campaign in which the acolytes are set against the armies of heaven and hell with a few twists so to speak ill name the skeletal structure i have in my head to begin with...and please im not cleric im not an expert on theology and im hardly religious if you have information to strengthen mine please do but DO NOT TEAR APART MY IDEA JUST BECAUSE I MAY HAVE A FEW THINGS MIXED UP!!!

1. god is still god, a manifestation of the emperor's will on a planet's history and people much stronger than in most places, simple to say the emperor just got bored please dont tear this point apart i know its a weak thread and if you want to strengthen it somehow with a better option go right ahead.

2. lucifer is still he, he was once an unalined daemon not wanting to mess with "god" because hes fricken got but he got corrupted by choas undivided and made his war and was cast down into the world, he then created the kingdom of hell modeled after Dante's interpretation of it welcoming his new found "freedom" even if he is stuck in the form of the beast...for now muwahahaha

3. The Lamb however is changed there was no christ but there was only the antichrist doing exactly what he is meant to do fake out the worlds people into thinking he was a saint, unfortunately he didnt plan on getting killed and was then resurrected by god, whom still believes is good. The Lamb wants to break the seals to end the world, heaven, and hell in a great war because...well what else is the antichrist going to do.

4. the seals still do exactly as they are supposed to they release the horseman, each an embodiment of chaos on the world, the first is czeetch, the second corn, the third slaneesh, and the last nurgle. however the first horse can be turned to the side of the acolytes as czeetch is a changer of ways and the first horseman is represented as good or as evil, and ive always felt czeetch has a good intention somewhere down there on the inside.

5. the seals are located in the kindom of heaven where the Lamb is now breaking them, the acolytes will have to fight their way through hell, accidentally release lucifer from his beastly bonds and be led up mount purgatory, then battle their way through the kindom of heaven.....holy weapons anyone?

6. there is a weapon that can significantly harm the Lamb and that is the Lance of Longinus, the spear that peirced Jesus's side. it is located in the arc of the covenent, along with lore that will help in their battle at heaven, and the arc is located in the literal Arc that was used in the great flood it is located at the top of Mount purgatory though it wont be cake to get to as The Lamb has angels guarding it as a venerated artifact.

basically my idea is that the acolytes are sent to the planet because psykers are feeling something strange building up on the planet, they investigate a ruins site with the theological professor, a cleric with theology +50 basically, and they find the entrance to hell. the descend in the levels because it is alluded that in hell they will find the source of the psychic disturbance. the fight their way through and finally reach the beast and break his human form and then see the true lucifer, obviously a demonhost with a few added tidbits in. Lucifer sets them straight retelling the story of his war with heaven not for control but for his freedom as angels are created to serve, and Lucifer wanted free will and was cast down. he has no reason to want the world to end because that would end his kingdom of hell and him punishing the souls of the wicked. they are then told that the Lamb is the orchastrator of the events and that he is planning on breaking the seals in order to end this world and significantly weaken god "or in your terms your emperor" in order for chaos to try and strike at him again. they are sent to mount purgatory to get to the gates of heaven. they fight up mount Purgatory all the while the Lamb breaks the first four seals releasing the horseman on the world. when they reach the top of the mount at the Garden of Eden and they get the spear they are cast down by the Lamb himself who right now is too for now to stop. when they hit the world the fifth seal is broken and they have a vision of a Martyr that will die in the "war that is to come" their quest now is to find this martyr and protect him from the horseman before they can kill him. doesnt really matter if he dies because if the martyr is killed he is reborn by god who is starting to see the lamb for what he is and is reborn as a manifestation of god's will, god in turn tells the angels to stop the Lamb and the Lamb however has guards of his own, "the four living creatures in Revelation and his own army of angels" and a civil war breaks out in heaven. if and when the martyr is killed and reborn they hunt down the horseman, possibly recruiting the first horseman, and then fight back up mount purgatory again. Then fight through heaven to reach the Empyrean, literally the warp itself, to get to the Throne of God and face the Lamb.

yes i know its a lot of plot with very little substance but i see the big before i see the small. so thats what i need help with

any takers?

Its easier not to base a Fantasy Game with its own theology on the concepts and/or truths from a given theological view point...

Interesting as you noted theology but all your concepts are based off Christian beleifs?

Also your story is wholly impossible for an elite cadre of the imperiums most battle hardened and superially equipped Force Commanders and Librarians of the spacemarines (backed up by the Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle) - A Task wholly impossible even for the entire brotherhood of primarchs let alone a squad of a miserly 4-10 accolyets or handfull of inquisitors.

I don't see any problem with a theological based campaign - however I'd keep it within the theology of 40K.

Our campaign started with the Accolytes being told to investigate a specific heresy where a page of the 'Citizen's Uplifting Primer' was being printed blank... Doesn't sound like much, but if you consider the ramifications of say (for instance) a Bible being printed with a missing page and the conspiracies that might lead to...

Giaus Novus Khan said:

Gaius is really on to something here.

Not sure how it is dealt with in the various Christian churches, but for Jews....

There are Rabbis that specialize (and had years of EXTRA training) in scribing Torah scrolls. Each is still ritually prepared by hand with special instruments and materials. Should there be a single flaw (and I mean ANY!) down to as small as a poorly written letter, a tiny blot of ink, a single missing dot or line where there should be.... ANYTHING less than complete perfection... And the scroll is not considered Kosher and must NOT be used.

I have seen this happen. During High Holiday services several years ago the Canter suddenly stopped right in the middle of a sentence. He looked at the scroll closely and called the Rabbi and several elders over to look as well. They all clustered around the scroll scrutinizing it and quietly consulting with each-other. The offending scroll was then rolled back up and set aside (outside the Ark) and a replacement scroll was taken from the Ark and placed on the Bima (the special table that supports Torah scrolls while they are being read). After a few minutes of the Canter scrolling to the correct passage the replacement scroll was also scrutinized and passed inspection. The services then resumed where they had been interrupted.

Later (after the Holiday) the offending scroll is taken for repair. The flawed section is removed and a brand new section is prepared from scratch. Once the replacement section is certified as flawless then it is attatched to the larger scroll and reconsecrated. Only once this is done can the Torah scroll be used again.

Besides just tradition, there is a VERY important reason for this level of dedication. Like all languages, Hebrew has certain words and letter combinations that can have different meanings depending on context. Since Torah must NOT be subject to such linguistic ambiguity a series of special marks and notations are used beneath the letters that specify the EXACT meaning of each phrase. These marks are unique to Torah and are not used in secular Hebrew texts, newspapers, documents etc. Because literally EVERY mark on the scroll is significant and deliberate absolutely no flaw, no matter how small, may be tolerated.

This is in modern day Earth. Now immagine the Imperium.....

i know its impossible...im just asking you to suspend your disbelief...

As GM you can put anything you want into a game. Personally I think the WH40K universe (mythology if you will) comes with so much baggage that it is difficult to impose a different mythology on top of it. Suppose for example that you were saying Zeus and Apollo and so forth were slugging it out with the Titans and Giants....it just wouldn't seem right.

This isn't to say that you can't do this idea or it is completly rubbish I just think you wuld need to discuss the implications very carefully with your PC's.

Arguabally the most interesting way to do this campaign would actually to set it during the Great Crusade. The irony being that at a time when the Emperor thinks that he is eliminating religion in fact the mother of all religious wars is just brewing.

As Visitor Q said, using Christian theology in a game of DH without blending it thoroughly with the 40k background might feel pretty jarring for your players, especially if they start recognising the source of inspiration at an early stage. The other potential problem with the scenario as you describe it is the god problem- how can the acolytes participate in events as anything other than pawns, especially when they are surrounded by much more powerful entities.

Having said that, the basic story line you describe sounds promising. Here are a few changes you might consider to make the story feel more 40k and moderate the power level a bit:

-Leave the god figure out unless, like the Wizard of Oz, this god figure is actually hiding mortal weakness behind smoke and mirrors and as a result genuinely needs the acolytes' help.

-In the pre-imperial past of this planet a group of Chaos cultists summonned a demon as part of an attempt to drag the planet into the warp. They were prevented from doing this and the demon incarcerated (the physical/metaphysical nature of the prison would depend on the mood you wanted to create). The prison was sealed with four seals. The incident is now so heavily mythologised that few suspect there was ever any literal truth in it.

-A human villain (probably with some kind of demonic pact) has learned of this and is determined to break the seals and complete the original ritual to send the planet screaming into the warp. Like the theological antichrist his plot involves convincing the planet's population that he is a saint, or perhaps becoming a powerful political figure. Either way his position within society will make him difficult to accuse once the acolytes figure out what he's up to.

-The acolytes stumble across the plot gradually in the course of other duties on the planet. They gradually learn about the myth of the seals and have to try to figure out which bits of the myth are real. This could involve seeking out old scholars, roughing up bands of cultists, breaking into forbidden archives etc.

-Once the acolytes realise exactly what the villain is trying to do they can start trying to work out how to stop him. This is where the acolytes can start searching for mythical spears and trying to make deals with the imprisonned deamon (who might want very much to be released from his prison but isn't so keen on the villain's plan to send him straight back to the warp dragging a planet behind him). Cue trips to 'hell' and increasing paranoia as the acolytes try to figure out who they can trust and who is in league with the villain.

-As the villain begins to succeed in breaking the seals and starts releasing the 'horsemen' the acolytes' situation becomes increasingly dire, adding a time pressure and new potential adversaries/allies.

-Hopefully the adventure culminates in a grand battle to stop the villain breaking the final seal. The acolytes triumph and they get to go home feeling like heros, or perhaps like they sold their souls to daemons depending on how they approached the adventure.

i like that adding on to it, id add the three other seals and maybe the cult was much bigger (144000 strong)

i think ill replace the concept of God with the government of the planet, the 9 spheres of heaven will be the layout of the palace filled with servitors of varying degrees, and the main governor of the planet will be the main cardinal of the planet

while the antichrist will be his second in command

the spear will be a hidden artifact deep within the bowels of the palace, or purgatory

they will stumble upon the whole plot by simply investigating some ruins that were reportedly haunted, in actuality the old ritual site, where they accidentally find a gateway to the "hell realm" merely a realm of the warp the demon controls

any other ideas