I have a question regarding Yogo Kikuyo.

His ability says:

Interrupt: When the effects of a spell event your opponent plays during a conflict would initiate, put this character into play - cancel those effects.

The rules say:

Card abilities only interact with, and can only target, cards that are in play, unless the ability specifically refers to an out-of-play area or element. Card abilities on characters, attachments, holdings, strongholds, and provinces can only be initiated or affect the game while they are in play unless the ability specifically refers to being used from an out-of-play area, or require that the card be out of play for the ability to resolve. Event cards and role cards implicitly interact with the game from an out-of-play area,
as established by the rules of their cardtypes.

The cost on Yogo Kikuyo would require him to not be in play, but I don’t see anything specifying from where you may place her. I feel like the intent is from hand, but I don’t see anything rules-wise which would prevent me from using her ability from other locations, particularly the discard pile where her ability will be visible. Am I missing some limitation on her ability?

If you go to Play and Put into Play it says that Playing a card is from your hand or provinces, paying Fate costs.

Then it says that Putting into Play is the same as playing, but without paying the Fate cost, so you must assume that they follow the same rules, unless the zone they can came from is referenced in the card, like “put this character into play from your discard pile”

5 hours ago, Tabris2k said:

Then it says that Putting into Play is the same as playing, but without paying the Fate cost, so you must assume that they follow the same rules

I don't see anything in the rules that state 'putting into play' is the same as playing, but without paying fate cost. There is a bullet about how a card that is put into play must enter play in the same state or play area as if you had played the card. But that does not cover where the card was played from.

I sent this question to the developers as soon as I read the article. See 'Vengeful Oathkeeper' for how a card should be 'put into play from your hand'. As worded, this card would allow you to put it into play from the discard pile (or other areas, Back Alley Hideaway), unless it receives an errata or can be fixed in time. I'm hoping they haven't manufactured these cards yet and there is still time to add the change 'from hand'.

Look at the Keeper Initiate: he states “from your discard pile or provinces”. He need to say from your discard pile, because it’s the exception.

Play and Put into Play
Playing a character or attachment card involves paying the card’s fate cost and placing the card in the play area. This causes the card to enter play. Cards are played from a player’s hand or provinces . Any time a character card is played, its controller has the option of placing additional fate from his or her fate pool on the card.
Some card abilities put cards into play. This bypasses the need to pay the card’s cost, as well as the opportunity to place additional fate on the card . A card that is put into play bypasses any restrictions or prohibitions regarding the potential of playing that card. A card that is put into play enters play in its controller’s play area.
◊ A card that has been put into play is not considered to have been “played.”
◊ In order to play a card, its fate cost (after modifiers) must be paid.
◊ When a card is put into play, its fate cost is ignored .
◊ Unless otherwise instructed by the put into play effect, cards that enter play in this manner must do so in a play area or state that matches the rules of playing the card .
◊ When an event card is played, place it on the table, resolve its ability, and place the card in its owner’s discard pile

@Tabris2k As @LuceLineGames says, the rules about putting cards into play don't cover where those cards come from. This is why Ambush says "from your hand and/or provinces", despite both places being where cards can be played from.

4 hours ago, Tabris2k said:

Look at the Keeper Initiate: he states “from your discard pile or provinces”. He need to say from your discard pile, because it’s the exception.

Play and Put into Play
Playing a character or attachment card involves paying the card’s fate cost and placing the card in the play area. This causes the card to enter play. Cards are played from a player’s hand or provinces . Any time a character card is played, its controller has the option of placing additional fate from his or her fate pool on the card.
Some card abilities put cards into play. This bypasses the need to pay the card’s cost, as well as the opportunity to place additional fate on the card. A card that is put into play bypasses any restrictions or prohibitions regarding the potential of playing that card. A card that is put into play enters play in its controller’s play area.
◊ A card that has been put into play is not considered to have been “played.”
◊ In order to play a card, its fate cost (after modifiers) must be paid.
◊ When a card is put into play, its fate cost is ignored.
◊ Unless otherwise instructed by the put into play effect, cards that enter play in this manner must do so in a play area or state that matches the rules of playing the card .
◊ When an event card is played, place it on the table, resolve its ability, and place the card in its owner’s discard pile

Emphasis mine.

I did read this section of the rules before posting my original question. But I see nothing here to indicate that putting a card into play defaults to meaning that it comes from hand or a province. If anything, the part I put in bold seems to indicate that such restrictions would be bypassed in putting a card into play.

As far as I can tell, Yogo Kikuyo's ability can trigger despite not referencing an out-of-play area because he would have to be out-of-play to resolve it. But I see nothing which specifies where out-of-play he has to be. Until and unless we get an official ruling, I'll play him as though he specified from hand because I believe that's the intent. But I was hoping for a clear rule which wouldn't rely on assumptions.

If we allow for her to be triggered from the discard pile, what's technically stopping her from being triggered from the deck?

Ruling:

You may want to review the wording on Yogo Kikuyo (shown in the most recent article). The wording seems to indicate the card could be put into play from your hand, discard pile, and other out of play areas (back alley), as hand isn't specified.

Quote

Unless specified, abilities cannot work from those out-of-play zones. We will issue an errata to clarify that it works from your hand. - Tyler Parrott 12/18/17

1 hour ago, mplain said:

If we allow for her to be triggered from the discard pile, what's technically stopping her from being triggered from the deck?

Nothing, which is a major problem!

31 minutes ago, LuceLineGames said:

Ruling:

You may want to review the wording on Yogo Kikuyo (shown in the most recent article). The wording seems to indicate the card could be put into play from your hand, discard pile, and other out of play areas (back alley), as hand isn't specified.

Excellent! I’m glad to know it’ll be fixed.

Isn't this the difference between Voice of Honor or Censure being in your hand vs discard?

VoH and Censure are events, and specifically have rules about being able to trigger them from your hand. The only rule that Characters have is that their abilities can be triggered from out of play areas if their ability requires it, and Kikuyo certainly requires that she be out of play for her ability to occur but since she doesn't specify which out of play zone to put her into play from there's no reason why she wouldn't work from your discard as well. She's almost certainly intended to only work from hand, but like Pit Trap and Ride them Down her printing doesn't reflect that.

The wording should have been similar to Vengeful Oathkeeper, which explicitly says from the hand.

1 hour ago, GoblinGuide said:

VoH and Censure are events, and specifically have rules about being able to trigger them from your hand. The only rule that Characters have is that their abilities can be triggered from out of play areas if their ability requires it, and Kikuyo certainly requires that she be out of play for her ability to occur but since she doesn't specify which out of play zone to put her into play from there's no reason why she wouldn't work from your discard as well. She's almost certainly intended to only work from hand, but like Pit Trap and Ride them Down her printing doesn't reflect that.

What's the discrepancy with Ride them Down? It seems straightforward enough.

8 minutes ago, AradonTemplar said:

What's the discrepancy with Ride them Down? It seems straightforward enough.

As worded there is no duration so would last indefinitely rather than till end of the conflict.

On ‎12‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 9:18 AM, mplain said:

If we allow for her to be triggered from the discard pile, what's technically stopping her from being triggered from the deck?

The fact that she is face down and thus the game doesn't see her ability as existing.

When in the discard the game sees her there and potentially will allow her to trigger, but a face down card's memory isn't existent. Only Back alley hideaway specifically can recall the card under it at this time.

The hand is a hidden game area, just like the deck.

35 minutes ago, mplain said:

The hand is a hidden game area, just like the deck.

ACTUALLY, I don't even see hidden game areas in the RR, which does actually make this difficult.

15 hours ago, mplain said:

The hand is a hidden game area, just like the deck.

I'd call it private rather than hidden. Cards in hand are only hidden from opponents, unlike cards in decks, which are hidden from everyone.

2 hours ago, Khudzlin said:

I'd call it private rather than hidden.

So when a character is returned to your hand, can we say that he/she is going to the privy?

1 hour ago, Tabris2k said:

So when a character is returned to your hand, can we say that he/she is going to the privy?

It would be pretty ****.