OK, so one of the prime tasks of an Imperial Governor is to control the psychic population and give psykers over to the Black Ships for training and/or sacrifice. This I know. What I don't know, and find I need to, is how it's done.

One reason I ask is that I have a nascent psyker in my game who had a recent near miss the Perils of the Warp (rolled daemonhost but got lucky thanks to a Resist Possession power and didn't get actually possessed). On the one hand, I figure there's one annoyed daemon out there. On the other, I'm wondering if the Imperial authorities might have "felt a disturbance in the [Warp]" and might send in the goons. Even if not, I'd like to send in some "witch-finders" as part of the standard psyker-collection to put the fear of the Emperor into my players and show them how bad things can be for potential psykers.

So, how do the Imperial authorities identify potential pyskers? How are they collected? Are they held somewhere while waiting for the Black Ships to turn up? If so, how and for how long? Who is responsible for identifying, collecting and maybe holding them?

If there is any established canon on this, I'm woefully ignorant of it and would really appreciate some tips of where to look. If not, does anyone have any ideas? Is it something that varies from world to world? Is it something that you've included in your games and if so, how? Etc.

Thanks for any thoughts...

Oh its a great big hole in the canon about the collection and identification of psykers amongst a population... then the problem of where you actually put them once you found them by what is technically a mundane society.

I'm more of the inclination to have Witch Hunters being employed by the governers and maybe even sector governors that run around with Psy-Trackers, which are a relatively common component on ships at least to check Gellar fields and work pretty well to find a psychic disturbance. Sort of figure they range along the lines of traditional bounty hunters mixed in with a bit of pragmatic zealotry when necessary, but mostly cruel hearted, vicious bastards without much in the way of actual Inquisition sanctioning for their activities aside from some sort of legal writ to go forth and catch rogue psykers. Or burn them if they're being difficult about coming along peacefully... and anyone who associates with them.

I guess in more well-heeled society they might get dumped in a big holding tank of sorts with some kind of bodged up geller field to keep anything that slops out of them in one area long enough for the guards to exterminate the lot with some kind of weapon. Null field tech is pretty rare and pricey, but if its sanctioned by a sector governor they might be able to beg and borrow one off the ad-mech. Think in worse case scenario it'd be a remote prison with lots of 24hour security and very light trigger fingers.

I know the Adeptus Arbites seem to get involved with the rounding up of psykers. When their presence is mentioned in regards to Iocanthus, it is said that they usually cant be found as they are out on witch hunts. As they are present on most Imperial worlds, and they have the highest chance (say, verses some ignorant cop or the preacher down the block) of knowing and appropriately dealing with a psyker, they very well might be the fail-safe or stop-gap for worlds where the people or government doesn't have a better means of controlling and rounding up their psykers (which would then fall under the whole "depends on the world" statement). The clause in the Imperial Laws about turning one's psykers over to the black ships might extend to impeding an Arbiter while hunting one.

As for what happens once taken, I imagine it involves a copious amount of Torpor for a very long time and a dank dark cell while they wait for the black ship to show up and empty the Arbiters holds of psykers (again, the most likely folks to have proper holding facilities for psykers and, again, they are present on most all Imperial worlds).

As for finding psykers, it could vary, but I imagine the most true and tried way is simply citizens informing the authorities. Parents reporting that little Bruticus has been acting oddly and his toys float, Nosy Neighbor Lady reporting an odd light at hours when decent folk should be asleep (don't ask her what she was doing up!), co-workslave John noticing your nose bleeding after you got that cog that never turns to turn to save your life, etc. This is, of course, complete with wonderful motivational posters all over the place showing how wonderful it is to report on your friends, neighbors, and family members (never mind the joy of fearing and reporting strangers or anything out of the ordinary no matter how small!) if you notice anything (and we mean anything at all!) out of the ordinary. Granted, this would result in a lot of false reports, but better that 1,000 innocent and pure citizens were drugged, beaten, and haled away in the night to be tested then let one witch escape!

The arbiters, in pursuit of such duties, could employ the use of psy-trackers or, heck, even astropaths and psykers assigned to them, anything with a psynisience skill. I personally kind of like the image of psykers in spiked collers and heavy iron helmet psy-inhibitors used like frothing mad bloodhounds to track rogue psykers down, but that's just me. Likewise, there could be free-lance witch-unters who fallow up on the innitial reports and if anyting seems like it really is suspicious, they report to the Arbiters for them to respond so they aren't tied up in a thousand dead end investigations that amount in no witches. Professinal informants if you will or specialised bounty-hunters. Freelance Witch-Hunter has a nice ring to it...

This is, of course, all simple conjecture.

Actually, the "Psyker Varmint Rustling" season has been around for several millenia, to the point that I think even backwater worlds in a nowhere sector out in a bumhole part of the galaxy (unfair? nah, it really is kind of the wild west) probably have some fairly well established storage areas, techniques and technology to contain the little bastards.

Even if 90% of the time it probably just involves being stoned to death or burnt by an angry mob of ignorant peons... but, mutants get that.

One particular nasty I'm still to dredge up and use and glad I read this thread (because it reminds me that I have to use it) was the "Psy-Hound", basically your run of the mill Cyberhound/mastif that the Arbites use and just load them up with an extended range psy-tracker and cut them loose on the town so they can run around sniffing out psykers, signal back when they've found something interesting and the catch teams go in. Discrete, cheap and as anyone whos worked with dogs knows, if given a job like hunting in a pack, they're pretty effective and single minded about that kind of work. I'm not sure if giving them Torpor injectors in their fangs might be considered a 'GM's being an arsehole' act by my PC psykers but I'm willing to give it a go once The other great thing is they probably pick up all kinds of weird warp related stuff that might be lying around which would be otherwise un-noticed by mundane folks.

The other reason to use bounty based Witch Hunters is that people who get paid (well) tend to do it with greater enthusiasm than your Arbites who's ended up having to do it simply because the Sgt told him to, if they're going to get paid enough they also tend to be morally reprehensible, horrible human beings and that just makes it interesting as an NPC.

MKX said:

and, according to the Administratum numbers I've just made up, such individuals would be 16.482% more effective at the job at hand then someone who will quibble with the moral quandaries of it all ;-)

I'm still partial to psyker bloodhounds, but specially-equipped cyber mastiffs is a nice thought!

MKX said:

Do itdo it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it.

Please, for the love of the God-Emperor do that. Just for the looks on the acolytes' faces when the psyker suddenly drops from a single bite.

The containment of Psykers awaiting the Black Ships has been covered in several of the Black Library novels. Basically a fortress-prison is built out in the ass-end of nowhere with windowless hexagramic-warded cells. Add some heavy duty defense batteries for ground attack and anti-air and a substantial security detatchment completely devoid of kindness and sense of humour. There would be a handfull of scribes to maintain the records and a grumpy medic to keep people alive or sedated as needed. At least one Astropath would be on the staff of most such fortress-prisons for obvious reasons.

The number one source of detainees would be from their fellow citizens turning them in or at least reporting them. The Adeptus Arbites would indeed take an active hand in the aprehension of any "uncooperative" subjects since the tithe of psykers is one of the strictest and most absolute of Imperial Law. Various sanctioned psykers would likewise end up reporting "strange warp phenomena" or "suspiciously bright souls" that they might encounter in the course of their duties. Inquisitors and their retinues obviously do their part to fill the occasional cell.

It is not the Warhammer 40K universe, but there is an episode of Babylon 5 where a group of rogue telepaths are thought to be hiding out somewhere on the station and attempting to flee human-controlled space. The Psy Corps sends in Bester (one of their powerful "Psy cops") who thoughtfully brought along a pack of trackers.... Low grade telepaths with extensive hypno-indoctrination and most of their individuality scrubbed clean from their minds. I can't immagine the Psykanna not using this sort of technique.

ZillaPrime said:

I was actually pondering the idea of psi-cops in 40K... Agents of the Psykanna, sent around to assist in locating, testing and containing nascent psykers while they wait for the Black Ships, psyker-bloodhounds sent to hunt down rogues. I may have to run with that.

While hunting psykers is dangerous, it isn't that dangerous. Your average psyker has a psi rating of 1, 25 WP, and no combat skills. Given imperial indoctrination, they are as scared of themselves as anyone else. It doesn't take much to knock them unconscious, and many of them probably go willingly with a little lying and coercion.

One of the things I'd ask myself (if I were the GM) is, "Does the populace at large know the most probable final fate of many of the psykers that are rounded up?" If it is common knowledge that most of these doomed souls are to be fed to the astronomicon while the few that aren't are going to be subject to the joys of sanctioning. Or if it is common knowledge about the conditions they are put in on the Black Ships. Otherwise, logically (maybe ) I think the Ecclesiarchy and the government would put into work a program that would be ultimately less costly and problematic then a 40K version of "The Fugative".

Maybe convincing people that being a psyker is a 'spiritual sickness' and they'll be taken away to be cured by the loving embrace of the Emperor. This doesn't sound so bad. Might even inspire those families that have a psyker son or daughter to give them over to authorities so they can be saved. Not fully knowing really what they are doing. Or even convincing people that they are taking the psykers away for their own good, lest the less enlightened folk rise up and lynch the poor soul. Hell, it could be as simple as saying that having this 'gift' grants you a free pilgrimage to Holy Terra. Who in the Imperium wouldn't jump at a chance to see the Holiest of Holy places? This sort of constant indoctrination would make collection of psykers pretty painless for most involved.

Perhaps the facilities that these psykers are collected aren't some horrific gulag rife with wall manacles and the low moans of drugged prisoners. They could be walled facilities with spartan rooms and perhaps a community center where they gather and eat (hexagramatic wards everywhere though). No need for torture facilities or numerous guards. Especially when the 'prisoners' really don't know it's a prison and think of it as more of a religious facility. Why risk upsetting these potentially dangerous people?

Now, of course, there will always be those that don't quite trust the conventional 'wisdom' and try to hide their psyker offspring or friends. In these cases the witch hunters or what ever would be employed. But even then it would be under the auspices of 'protecting' the community from the potentially lethal nature of the psyker. If the problem of rounding them up is treated as a privilege and duty of the community as a whole, not to punish the psyker, but to protect them and help the psyker, then I think that a great chunk of the difficulty would be simply to keep the people convinced that this is the truth. Otherwise it's quite possible to see many situations on many worlds similar to an 'underground railroad' for nascent psykers all around the Imperium which would ultimately lead to massive cabals and uprisings of sorcerers or various disastrous warp events from these untrained psykers.

As for feral or frontier worlds... I don't think known psykers really last long, unless they're revered as a shaman or something. But in that case they'd be incredibly easy to find.

So, in short, I think that many nascent psykers or families with them simply turn in their children or turn in themselves simply because of the indoctrination they have received. They really have no reason to believe (yet ) that any true harm will befall them under the Emperor's grace.

Of course... This sounds kind of boring...

Interesting topic - I've thought about this as well. PtU had a section where a sort of null-warp field existed to keep psykers prisoners so it is indeed possible.

But I think the hexagrammic wards or whatever they're called is the most common method used to keep the psykers, after all that's what the Black Ships themselves.

For detecting Witches the local population would be very willing to help out - but in the end to be sure I'd suspect there are ways for Sanctioned Psykers to test an individual. It might not be something they can immediately feel (like in B5), but would probably require probing, psynscience and possible some torture to accomplish.

On low-tech and medieval planets there might not be that much resources available and their small tithe of psykers will probably be shut in warded dungeons, possibly after a Which Hunter of some sort have made them confess their witchcraft. The few times each century the Black Ships arrive they'll probably have to weed out alot of them, but that's a small price to pay.

BTW regarding the ships how long time do they spend going to Holy Terra? Would it be normal for a young psyker to end up an old man even before he has a chance of arriving there and potentially be sanctioned or sacrificed. '... unless they do the whole sanctioning process abord the ships...

Yui 56 said:

I think that kind of knowledge would fall under Forbidden Lore (psyker). And, seeing as how there's no Common Lore (psyker) or Common Lore (Adeptust Astrotelepathica) that should answer the question as to what, generally speaking, the general Imperial population at large knows about the fate of psykers ;-)

The rest is spot on... including the last sentence but it could still be interesting in some stories and light.

Friend of the Dork said:

For some the voyage is fairly short. For others the voyage could be a significant chunk of their lifespan. I would have to assume that some of them even die in transit given the setting we are dealing with. The path taken by the Black Ships are absolutely secret and almost certainly include some elements of randomness for added security. There is a reason that the Sanctioning process adds a random number of years to a character's starting age.

As for Psy-Cops: The Adeptus Arbites were largely inspired by Judge Dredd in 2000AD Comics back in the UK. Not just a little bit either: In early 40K they directly HAD Judges, mineatures and all! Times and legal resources change, and so too did the Judges morph into the Arbites that we know today. Sooo... Psy Judge Anderson is frickin' awesome! The Arbites are already known to maintain specialist solo operatives in addition to their more common Enforcer Squads, Chastisement Squads, Investigators and so on. So why not specially trained Psykers? Especially Telepaths and Seers.

I am fortunate to own two Judge Anderson mineatures produced by Citadel way back when. One on foot and one on a Lawmaster bike. Sadly I do not own Dredd. The few pieces still out there could probably be traded for a car or something like that...

Graver said:

I don't know, I remember reading in the core book about how everyone knows the Emperor keeps the astronomicon alive, with the help of a thousand souls of psykers who willingly sacrifice themselves for the sake of Mankind. They don't know the details (forbidden lore), but I 'd say it's Common Lore: the Imperium to know about the sacrifices psykers must make.

So when the Black Ships arrive, most people could say "Ah the black ships! They have come to collect the Emperor's tithe of psykers, so that they can serve mankind rather than destroy it. Some as sanctioned psykers, others sacrificed to help the Emperor protect us all."

When thinking of "how things work in Empire" we must remember that Inquisition is never the standard answer. Technically the Empire is built to work without Inquisition. And it would work without it, in perfect world. However, as world is not perfect Inquisition is needed to keep the machine rolling. Inquisition is the stopgap. The oil between the gears. The last line of defence. Its the organization that comes if it comes and when it comes without anyone telling it to come and once it comes it tends to solve things. But there is no guarantees on it. You can't build any system around the expectation of "Inquisition will handle it" as their presence is always exception, never the rule.

I'll make a few examples:

Xeno problems: First line of defence is PDF, Second is Imperial Guard, Third is Adeptus Astartes, Ordo Xenos and Deathwatch come if they come but you can't just lay back and wait for them

Demon/Cultist problems: First line of defence is Adeptus Arbites, Second is PDF, Third is Imperial Guard, Fourth is Adpetus Astartes, Ordo Malleus and Grey Knights come if they come but you can't just lay back and wait for them

Rogue Psykers: First line of defence is Local Security/Police Forces, Second is Adeptus Arbites, Ordo Hereticus and Adepta Sororitas come if they come but you can't just lay back and wait for them

Thus, if a planets governor hasn't organized a system for locating, apprehending and confining psykers he will be very, very sorry (and executed) once the local sector sub-command of Adeptus Arbites learns of this mishap. I would expect each local government to have their own approach in psyker-hunting and loacl Adeptus Arbites (and Ecclesiarchy with their Adepta Sororitas) looking over the local "witch hunters" shoulder to make sure things get done.