6 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

primed thrusters is not redundant at all

primed thrusters is ******* absurd with the amount of flexibility it gives you

forgo sensors to ptl normally? you can ptl to re-position again next turn with or without a green maneuver

PTL sensors but then reveal a white manuever? you can ptl to re-position next turn

red maneuver? boost and/or roll after

debris? same thing

Facing a stress inflicting list that would utterly neuter advanced sensors? primed thrusters

Primed thrusters + sensors make the silencer and turns it into arguably the single most maneuverable ship in the game

if anything, optics are far more redundant because you can just sensor out a focus and use the title (with decent flying) to give you offensive modifiers and thrusters for defense

I actually like sensors/optics on the PS4 generic, lets you get way more aggressive with it.

Edit: Jesus, autocorrect's insistence on changing good spelling and grammar to completely wrong words and bad grammar is driving me insane today

AO on Quickdraw is a beautiful thing. If frees her first combat action for a TL or b-roll. Easy to get a full mod missile off.

I used it on her with swarm leader and had a 5 dice full mod attack on initial engagement.

I take focus as my action, and if i dont need it thanks to FCS, i just bank it instead of wasting it, cause people dont like attacking quickdraw while she has arc on them and a token. AO keeps that token there even when she is blocked.

It also opens up changing your lock on turns you dont have a shot at your fcs target, you still get full mod on something else.

---------

Also, dont rule out the combo of operation specialist. Easy to fit on a wookiee, and any ship that misses can refuel AO on your T70s, so they can continue having actions free for other things.

AO is the card of the wave

I too have been contemplating the TIE/FO with optics for 17 points. With the big nerfs this year and small buffs like optics helping generics, they have a chance now to actually be competitive. The first data point as evidence is the list with 3x LWF strikers and an upsilon that got top8. TIE/FO with optics has less offense than the similar priced strikers, but 3-agility with potential for focus & evade is no joke. It's why X7 defenders are still the reigning king of tankiness, & they're significantly more expensive.

It is frustrating that Optics only comes with ships I have no interest in. Rebel bomber & Silencer will not form a significant part of the meta.

11 hours ago, Rakaydos said:

Crimson Squadron Pilot (25)
Advanced Sensors (3)
Advanced Optics (2)
Tactical Jammer (1)
Crossfire Formation (2)

Crimson Squadron Pilot (25)
Advanced Sensors (3)
Advanced Optics (2)
Tactical Jammer (1)
Crossfire Formation (2)

Crimson Squadron Pilot (25)
Advanced Sensors (3)
Advanced Optics (2)
Tactical Jammer (1)
Crossfire Formation (2)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Good luck killing them.

11 hours ago, Herowannabe said:

Good luck killing anything with them. You have 3 2-dice attacks, that’s hardly very threatening.

You could always swap the advanced sensors for accuracy correctors. 3 2-dice attacks that never miss a roll is rather more useful, and leaves the focus free for defence.

At that point, though, I question if the optics are needed - you've nothing else to do with your action but focus defensively. Might as well swap optics and jammers for countermeasures to withstand cruise missile alpha strikes.

Alternatively, reinforced deflectors would be another good free swap

2 hours ago, Biophysical said:

To be fair, Rey is objectively much better. You can store multiple tokens, and you can grab one from her even though you already have one to get a short stack of Focus.

Oh, absolutely true. But a weaker version of an amazing card is often still going to be very good.

3 hours ago, Kdubb said:

But seriously why is this 2 points and comms is 3. FFG please answer me. *batman voice* ANSWEER MEEEE!

Because offensive upgrades tend to be cheaper than defensive equivalents. The game is designed to end.

AO is definitely amazing. Kylo can reposition all the time and still have focus for defense. I found myself actually often not using PTL because I was in a good spot and didn't need another action. It just synergizes so well with the silencer, and many other ships too.

31 minutes ago, wurms said:

AO on Quickdraw is a beautiful thing. If frees her first combat action for a TL or b-roll. Easy to get a full mod missile off.

I used it on her with swarm leader and had a 5 dice full mod attack on initial engagement.

I take focus as my action, and if i dont need it thanks to FCS, i just bank it instead of wasting it, cause people dont like attacking quickdraw while she has arc on them and a token. AO keeps that token there even when she is blocked.

Oh man. I'd been thinking of Swarm Leader Quickdraw for a while. She can potentially throw 10 (12 at range 1) attack dice a round. I'd been thinking about a F/O Swarm of 4x Epsilon (leaves 2 bid). However, 2x Epsilon with AdvO and a Delta /x7...

I can confirm, a FO with Adv. Optics can be tanky as ****. Average dice, most lists will struggle to remove a token stacked FO outside of range 1. Even if you do, then you've also probably allowed the remainder of the FOs list to pummel one of your more valuable ships with all of your shots going into a 17 point ship. Good luck climbing out of that hole.

Without Adv. Optics, a FO dies quickly, or is completely ignored because it's rarely going to have double attack mods, so it poses little threat outside of blocking.

I've played @Biophysical a few times with his Adv. Optics tests. I think if his ships trade out AO for any other tech, they wouldn't pose much of an offensive threat. It makes a huge difference.

If QD shoots out both ends she could fire 20 dice at range one, 10 from each end, assuming you have enough evade tokens to pull.

You'd need to combo it with Youngster with Debris Gambit and at least 3 Academy TIEs. That would give you 8 evade tokens to grab.

12 hours ago, Rakaydos said:

Crimson Squadron Pilot (25)
Advanced Sensors (3)
Advanced Optics (2)
Tactical Jammer (1)
Crossfire Formation (2)

Crimson Squadron Pilot (25)
Advanced Sensors (3)
Advanced Optics (2)
Tactical Jammer (1)
Crossfire Formation (2)

Crimson Squadron Pilot (25)
Advanced Sensors (3)
Advanced Optics (2)
Tactical Jammer (1)
Crossfire Formation (2)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Good luck killing them.

So you have no offensive power, one green dice and one focus result, which means you mitigate 1-2 points of damage per shot taken at it. Anything that throws enough red dice, and 3 modded are not only enough but also very common, doesn't need "luck", it just needs time.

I know you get another green should anyone shoot through another bomber, but why would I not focus on the closest one? It's not that there's another prime target hiding just behind the bomber I desperately want to down first. That's a lot of points to pour into the defense of a ship that has so many other strengths.

Just as an example, how does this list take down a standard Soontir with focus/focus/ evade? Other than ridiculous variance? Because there's very little that's stopping that one ship from potentially going toe-to -toe with the entire list for three hours and winning, unless you bump him several turns in a row. Phantoms, Fang Fighters, anything having 3 red/ 3 green or more will happily chip away 0-1 damage a turn and leave it at that.

12 hours ago, Sasajak said:

More like good luck for anyone trying to kill them

12 health behind 1 agility is nothing to scoff at... look at any falcon.

Then couple it with the title and these become pretty tanky. They hate ordnance.

To take a closer look at how this upgrade functions, you could try one of these lists:

Epsilon Squadron Pilot (15)
Advanced Optics (2)

Epsilon Squadron Pilot (15)
Advanced Optics (2)

Sienar-Jaemus Analyst (26)
Fire-Control System (2)
Advanced Optics (2)
Autothrusters (2)

Sienar-Jaemus Analyst (26)
Fire-Control System (2)
Advanced Optics (2)
Autothrusters (2)

Total: 98

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Epsilon Squadron Pilot (15)
Advanced Optics (2)

Epsilon Squadron Pilot (15)
Advanced Optics (2)

Epsilon Squadron Pilot (15)
Advanced Optics (2)

Epsilon Squadron Pilot (15)
Advanced Optics (2)

Sienar-Jaemus Analyst (26)
Fire-Control System (2)
Advanced Optics (2)
Autothrusters (2)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Epsilon Squadron Pilot (15)
Advanced Optics (2)

"Zeta Leader" (20)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Advanced Optics (2)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

"Omega Leader" (21)
Juke (2)
Comm Relay (3)

Sienar-Jaemus Analyst (26)
Fire-Control System (2)
Advanced Optics (2)
Autothrusters (2)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

(Zeta Leader stolen from Arkanta974.)

58 minutes ago, BadMotivator said:

If QD shoots out both ends she could fire 20 dice at range one, 10 from each end, assuming you have enough evade tokens to pull.

You'd need to combo it with Youngster with Debris Gambit and at least 3 Academy TIEs. That would give you 8 evade tokens to grab.

This is not going to go... The way you think...

9 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Yup that's the core of my current rebel list

the third ship is intensity FAA snap.

I really like this idea, but have what might be an ignorant question. Do you put anything else on Snap? I found myself putting on auto thrusters, but would be interested in your opinion. Even after that though, we have a four point bid right? Do you go with that or add something else somewhere that I have missed? Not sure if there is a standard FAA+Intensity Snap build that I am unaware of. I could also see giving Poe a torpedo I guess.

After testing it on Kylo I've definitely come over to the side of Optics. It's been far more useful than I imagined.

55 minutes ago, TheHumanHydra said:

To take a closer look at how this upgrade functions, you could try one of these lists:

Epsilon Squadron Pilot (15)
Advanced Optics (2)

Epsilon Squadron Pilot (15)
Advanced Optics (2)

Sienar-Jaemus Analyst (26)
Fire-Control System (2)
Advanced Optics (2)
Autothrusters (2)

Sienar-Jaemus Analyst (26)
Fire-Control System (2)
Advanced Optics (2)
Autothrusters (2)

Total: 98

This is one of the lists I've been testing that led me to write the OP.

8 hours ago, Biophysical said:

One of the real surprises in the games I've played so far is the Epsilon Squadron Pilot + Advanced Optics for 17 points. I've only played a few games with them in supporting roles, but they have really been good. It's probably the toughest 17 points in the game, so you can hang them out there unsupported to block or just make opposing squads deal with them before your main force commits. They also spend a lot of time blocking, so it's pretty easy to pick up and keep your Focus/TL for the next turn. As these guys spend a lot of time at Range 1, it's a solid attack for the points.

Two of those with two generic TIE Silencers? Hm...

18 minutes ago, Celestial Lizards said:

Two of those with two generic TIE Silencers? Hm...

It's a lot of ship in the squad, honestly.

Thinking of Epsilon Swarms.

At 17 points each:

5x leaves 15 points: Wampa, a naked Epsilon

4x leaves 32 points: The Inquisitor, a Tractor Beam Delta TIE/D (that seems nasty), a fairly well-loaded Gunboat (OS-1 and Ion Pulse Missiles?)

3x leaves 49 points: A well-loaded Kylo Ren, Boba Fett (ha! Boba Fett in 2017 ), Perhaps a pair of GUNBOATS.

2x leaves 66 points: TWO Tractor Beam Delta TIE/D, a well-loaded Decimator, a potent Quickdraw and solid filler ship (a Delta /x7, Omega Leader).

//

I'm also thinking about 19 points for Epsilon Ace with AdvO. Seems like a stronger Tech for than Comm Relay. They can still Evade if they're in the crosshairs, but can TL too, for more total offense. Is it worth 2 points to get 11 pilot skill? Maybe, but maybe not? An ESP can block, while EA can't.

3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Because offensive upgrades tend to be cheaper than defensive equivalents. The game is designed to end.

But focus tokens are widely just as potent on defense as evade tokens are. I understand the need to be more cautious with defensive abilities, but one can argue advanced optics is just as potent defensively as comms relay is.

1 minute ago, Kdubb said:

But focus tokens are widely just as potent on defense as evade tokens are. I understand the need to be more cautious with defensive abilities, but one can argue advanced optics is just as potent defensively as comms relay is.

Evade is statistically slightly better at anything under 4 dice. About 0.2 fewer damage with an evade than a focus on 3 dice, which is pretty close. On a TIE, as a pure-defense option, it's not much worse.

6 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Thinking of Epsilon Swarms.

At 17 points each:

What's old is new again. Epsilon with optics is straight up better than the Academy Pilot. Swarms do greatly benefit from Howlrunner. Then add in an additional threat to make them think twice about shooting Howlrunner. Swarms are the original alpha strike.

1. Epsilon TIE/FO, Advanced Optics x3
2. Howlrunner, crackshot
3. Rho Starwing, crackshot, XG-1, HLC, LRS (100 points list)

Howlrunner or the HLC gunboat can be killed by an alpha strike, but not both. 2-attack ships naturally counter Lightweight-Frame AKA Quickdraw. Wookie gunships would be a problem, but I can confirm from experience that blocking Wookies and denying the reinforce token means you have the advantage in the matchup.

16 hours ago, RebelProfundity said:

I really like this idea, but have what might be an ignorant question. Do you put anything else on Snap? I found myself putting on auto thrusters, but would be interested in your opinion. Even after that though, we have a four point bid right? Do you go with that or add something else somewhere that I have missed? Not sure if there is a standard FAA+Intensity Snap build that I am unaware of. I could also see giving Poe a torpedo I guess.

Snap: Intensity - FAA - IA - Primed Thrusters (though with his ability, I don't seem to trigger FAA that much, so I may go back to Targeting Astromech).

23 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Optics is basically Rey crew. Rey has long been known to be strong.

The ship which really appeals to me with Optics is Quickdraw with a missile. Sure, Cruise Missiles and Harpoon Missiles are nice. But when you have both a focus and a target lock, they're really nice.

At 22 points, it's not unreasonable. Toss in a Crack Shot at 23, and that's a valid filler ship. It seems like it'd be really cool alongside a QD/Vader Alpha Strike list. Less potent, but you'll be able to follow up an opening burst with a nice bunch of nasty crits.

“Quickdraw” (40)

Special Forces TIE (29), Veteran Instincts (1), Fire-Control System (2), Harpoon Missiles (4), Advanced Optics (2), Special Ops Training (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

Darth Vader (35)

TIE Advanced (29), TIE/x1 (0), Harpoon Missiles (4), Veteran Instincts (1), Guidance Chips (0), Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

“Omega Ace” (23)

TIE/fo Fighter (20), Advanced Optics (2), Crack Shot (1)

Total: 98, bid 2.

Yup this is a beast of a list. OA is such a nice follow up to harpoons, but he is VERY vulnerable to being PS killed.

I've been toying around with:

Quickdraw with AO/FCS/title/debris gambit.

Whisper with VI/ACD/FCS/rebel captive

Nu with Harpoon/LRS

99 points

As much as people **** on Debris Gambit, it's turned out to be quite a nice pair for advanced optics on QD. It allows me to enter combat with a focus and 2 evades, which makes a very tanky Quickdraw. In two of my three games, I've been able to engineer losing one shield per round on QD, which always results in a win. HLC gunboats can still make quick work of this QD (which I found out in the third game).

Anyways, I though I'd toss out another nice surprise that goes along with AO on Quickdraw. It seems like each new wave delivers another little tool that makes QD even better!