Hello,

I am not trying to talk smack about this new version of WFRP 3ed, but I was hoping to get some more convincing to why I should play it.

First, to be fair, I was not happy about this complete overhaul of the game. One of the GMs of our group has almost all of the 2nd ed books and we felt despite the fact that it needed a little more help in the system (melding roleplaying into the dice rolls, like Burning Wheel), it was still a great game.

NOW, I have heard so many good things about this game from on-line reviews. So, I have been so tempted to buy this because of those reviews.

So here is my problem: The box set is for three players and a GM. WTF? How many **** groups out there ONLY HAVE THREE PLAYERS? Our group consists of six people (we are three married couples). Even D&D says the sweet spot is 4 or 5 players plus a gm. But despite the fact that we only have two books for that game, we can still play D&D sucesfully (we don't feel the need for the monster manual).

SO, in order for us to have what we need, we not only have to buy the main box set, but buy two players packs, and then buy two sets of dice because for some lame reason an extra portion of dice are not in those PLAYER sets. So, I have to fork out the money for the basic game and then convince my players to fork out the money for extra parts when we have no way of knowing if the game is as good as we heard it was (because as of yet, no one we know plays this in the OKC area).

So, at the most, we have to have at least over $110-170 invested into this game just to have the materials to play this game for six people. If we don't have a local group to ask and see a demo of this game, it is quite a lot of money to just start up a new Warhammer game.

Why did this company (which puts out great games) do this to us? Is this just something you have to ask your players to give you money in order to play this game? Or are we not the target audience? If each player has to have a certain amount of tokens and cards, it is not like we can share this stuff like other roleplaying games.

I am not sure what I want to hear, but I am frustrated that this game went from a $35-40 rule book to an over $100 game.

I'm playing with one boxed set and 5 players. I bought one set of extra dice for each player. I use all my WFRP2 stuff for background. I think after purchasing it online and with my 20% discount on dice at the last convention, I suppose I've spent $140 in product.

I gave each player the following:

1. Form fillable character sheet

2. Photocopy of the basic cards (no, I don't hand out the basic cards to anybody)

3. The Rules Brief from UH (www.headlesshollow.com/freebies_games.html)

4. Their necessary cards.

After Games Workshop/BI DUMPED WFRP2 as unprofitable, FFG picked it up and put out Career Compendium and Shades of Empire . They also released many of the 2e books on PDF. There were no other products to put out and there was no more money to be made in an obsolete edition..especially when DH came out and ate up all the remaining fanbase. With lackluster convention support and no real future for 2e except for "scraps" in terms of profitibaility they moved to a 3rd edition. They were under no obligation to produce a dwarf/elf book and other scraps for an obsolete edition of an abandoned game.

The strongpoints of WFRP3: It's an interesting new system. It still works without every player having to continually reference a rulebook. It's pretty. It's still the Warhammer world. Players like that they're not complete mooks at the start (hush, hush..you'll alarm the rat-bastard-you-must-be-diseased/insane/weak/helpless/naked/covered-in-poo-GM's out there by admitting it though).

The weakpoints of WFRP3: the price isn't free. Unlike WFRP2, which had already been extensively torrented, the new edition costs "modern" prices. It's got to re-hash some old info in the base set. Support products are slow to come out. Lastly, it's got no players guide.

It wouldn't hurt to sit tight with your old game and convert WFRP3 stuff to WFRP2 (the scenarios..not the rest of course). The only thing new about WFRP3 is the system and the pretty colors.

Nice reply from Em - not sure what to add - as you note - you are not sure what question you are asking.

For me this was just another FFG box set - one I am enjoying immensely, but it was a bit light on content for the price compared to many other FFG boxes, so if you just look at the money angle you may find it hard to justify. For me I looked at it akin to buying the Advanced Squad Leader rules, a necessary part of the purchase to get into the system - one that appeals to me but may not to you.

COOL! Thanks for that rules summer, btw.

Yeah, the main GM that runs Warhammer was saying the same thing about using the old rules and converting the new adventures to 2nd ed.

One thing that would have been nice is if they could have sold the components separately, so you could mix and match for the amount of players but I am sure there is a flaw with that.... I understand that this all costs money, but most GMS are the ones who fork out the cash for this and our WFRP gm is not going to do it and I am hesistant about it myself..... (but it looks so shiny!)

oh, and I did calculate that if I got everything from Amazon it would cost $116.21, which is a lot less..... hmmmm....

One of the handy things FFG did was to put the 4 books on pdf. They're like $5-10. IF you play the wizard, buy the wizard book. Priest, buy the priest book.

drivethrurpg.com

jh

Em covered how to handle not enough cards if you don't want to pitch in as a group and buy additional core sets (as well as the rulebooks online situation, indispensable for the guys running the casters and at $5 it can't be beat). As for the dice? A shoebox and the pass them around method works fine in our group. I have a 3-6 players playing at any time and have just the boxed set and one dice pack. We divvy up the dice at the start of the session as equitably as possible (with me getting the lion's share, GM does have its perks) and then simply 'I need one more red/blue/whatever' when the situation calls for it. The 10 second delay while someone chucks a couple dice someone's way is tolerable and we haven't found it to be as big a problem as people make it out to be. Are there enough dice for everyone to have their own in the box? No. Are there enough dice to play if everyone cooperates and helps maintain game flow? Yup.

I'm actually looking for more event/neutral stance pieces. I'm finding that when all the players have one, plus I have one available for initiative I always run short when setting up a tracker. Would I have liked more? Definitely. Have I adapted? Yup. I simply flip one of the stance markers over to the other color to denote an event. So a X-3-X-3-X tracker would have the X's as RED and the 3 spaces in between each GREEN. Problem solved!

Thank you guys for this advice. I am going to talk to everyone this weekend and see what they think. I have a funny feeling that if I want us to play this game, the other GM will want me to buy it then since he spent all that money on the 2nd edition (oh, and he also is the owner of all of our Arkam Horror game stuff too).

What is funny is that 5 out of 6 six of our gaming group is also in a band, so we usually game after band practice (and sometimes after gigs).

In the mean time, I might buy the main rule book on PDF to read a little more on this. Cheers!

Smart move. There's enough sampling of what action cards and talents look like in the PDF rulebook as well as in the online adventure to help you make sense of what you're reading. I did that while waiting to my box to arrive and was that far ahead of the game in learning the rules. At that point I just needed to familiarize myself with the career cards and what the different action/talent cards did. I've left off studying the miscasts/wounds since they're self-explanatory.

I'm still not sold either Dustin...

I have bought everything so far including two additional dice packs, but I'm waiting until the Gathering Storm is released before I try playing this edition. I have all the 2nd Ed books, which offers a huge wealth of background material to build off of. I'm kind of partial to 2nd Ed after reading both sets of rules, but I come from a background of playing Dark Heresy for the last year which is very similar in ways to 2nd Ed.

Over all, in my opinion, it may be better for you and your group to get two boxed sets instead of buying extra dice and a bunch of Adventurer's toolkits. I'm regretting having picked up only 1 boxed set and 1 adventurer's toolkit with the extra dice. For what I spent initially, I could have gotten two boxed sets online (I paid full price to support my FLGS) and still have had money left over to get the Adveturer's toolkit to round out the career cards.

You can get the box for about $63.00 on amazon and the Toolkit is a bit cheaper at $20.00, but you'll have two sets of rule books (one set for you and one set for player reference), two sets of action/spell cards (some players with same actions won't have to share) and enough basic action decks for up to six players. You could even offset your cost by selling off some of your extra stuff to your player base (dice, basic action decks, favorite carreers). At $10 or $20 bucks per player you can offset the cost of the extra box and break it up between them so that they have a complete player set up with dice. I varied the amount, since the wizard or priest would need some extra stuff to be successful in playing (spell cards and the relevant book for their career.)

Honestly, I'm not sure why FFG didn't make a complete Adventurer's toolkit to begin with so that everyone getting into the game would have the basic career cards, action deck and dice that they needed. I can see not giving everyone a copy of the spell cards and class specific action cards though as not everyone would need them.

Oh well....

That is funny you mentioned it because the guy who runs our Dark Heresy game (the other GM in our group) is having a birthday come up and I sent out an e-mail to everyone asking if they could chip in money to get him the new WFRP. If I end up getting mine soon, that will mean we have two sets. The only problem I see is keeping our **** straight (**** it, I told you to not mix your crap up with mine!!! )

I am almost through the main rule book (slow to read on a screen) and I am intrigued so far. My band is playing down in Texas this weekend and I am driving down with the other GM (since our gaming group is basically our band too) and so I will explain to him what is different with the game and if we should play it. He was also the one who ran our 2nd edition games (so, he is the one with all of those books), but he told me the other day that he wants to play this game instead of running it.

One thing he said though is that he would be open to a new system because it would be a change from Dark Heresy (which is a great system, don't get me wrong). It's not like those 2nd Edition books are not going to be useful obsolete.

We were toying with the idea of running Dragon Age, but then my wife stepped in and said that if we are going to play something that is set in a world just like Warhammer Fantasy, then why not play Wahammer (although, that Dragon Age system is pretty cool too).

Dustin said:

With such interest in RPG, your wife seems pretty cool too !

(my wife plays, and plays nice, his Troll Slayer in my WFRP game, I'm so lucky)

LeBlanc13 said:

Agreed. This would have been great. Something that allows a player to buy into the game with a dice pack worth of dice (or an average number of dice one player might need), the basic action cards, and a pack of character sheets for around $15-20. I think this would have been a great idea. The new actions in the adventurer's kit could have come in a Career Kit #1 with the new careers and action cards we had in the ATk.

The way they're selling this RPG is a new sales model from what I can tell (haven't seen many RPGs packaged this way before). They may still be figuring out how best it works for them.

There's no way they could have sold a set of dice + all careers + all action cards for $15-20 as you guys suggest. For comparison just look at what comes with the $20 Toolkit! Besides full sets of action cards and careers for each player is an overkill - everyone would end up with tons of useless crap.

Having said that I still think both he dice pack and the toolkit are quite overpriced for what they are.

No, you're misnuderstanding me.

In Kel World:

The Adventurer's Toolkit would contain: A set of the basic action cards. An assortment of dice (example: 3 blue, 1 red, 1 green, 1 yellow, 2 black, 2 white, 1 or 2 purple). A character sheet pad. ~$15-20. Punch sheet of stance/fatigue/tokens optional. Could add a couple $2 to the price.

The Career Kit #1 would contain: The careers and associated action cards and standees that came in the actual Adventurer's Toolkit. As well as the party cards it came with. ~$15-20.

The only reason I'm where I am with the pricing is I'm sure the high quality of their graphic design factors heavily into FFG's final retail price. Losing the fancy slipcase and box art design might mitigate the pricing. But that's just me. Lose those and you lose one of the big draws to FFG - their production quality.

willmanx said:

Yeah, she is quite a trooper. Now, she won't go as far as reading the whole Dark Heresy like the other GM's wife, but she does really get into the games (and is great at memorizing the rules).

BTW, Don't get me wrong about Dragon Age, that is a good game. I did not want to talk smack about that.

On the way back from the North Texas Irish Festival this last weekend, I had a talk with the other GM and both of our wives about this new version and they all want to try the game out (the other two that are in our gaming group and our band are easy going, so they don't care what we play).

The other GM was saying that he wanted me to run this game since he has never played in the world of Warhammer and since he took over GMing Dark Heresy from me. I told him that even though he has most of the 2nd edition, let's try this one and if we don't like it, we will go back to 2nd edition.

I am sure I will be back to tell you what I think. We get together to game twice a month (I wish more) and we have about another 4 gaming sessions to go to finish off our Dark Heresy game before it's my turn.

I appriciate the advice and after reading the pdf of the main rule book, I know I had to give this game a shot. The only thing that sucks about the pdf, btw, is that I printed it out only to find out that I need to see the color of the dice icons to get what they are talking about (DOH!!!).

Cheers!