Eh, honestly, if stuff like this is going to ruin the movie for you, I honestly feel sorry for you.

Sure, even fictional universes need rules to their "magic" (otherwise, Harry could just send the magical equivalent of an intercontinental ballistic missile halfway through the fifth book to take down Voldemort for good). But it's where these rules are drawn that can get a little fuzzy. All I know is, earlier this month, I managed to suspend my disbelief to a level I felt comfortable with so I could enjoy my movie about space wizards. Star Wars, man! It's kind of sad that some people were apparently denied that, because of what they found acceptable for suspension of disbelief.

And honestly, I love debates on lore like this, I find them absolutely fascinating. But to hate the entire movie because of it? Again, I just feel bad for those people.

I always dislike Timetravel. That kills any story for me. Nonetheless, I like Terminator for the action and Back to the future for the humor. And I always thought I was that guy that is overcritical.

We are talking about a fairy tale (Once upon a time in a kingdom far far away, a young wizard knight apprentice challenges the evil black wizard knight / fantasy creatures everywhere), with a wild west background (Tatooine, gunslingers everywhere), dressed in science fiction clothes, which is just a remake of an epic Japanese samurai movie by Akira Kurosawa.

"Lightspeed" Blaster Bolts can be followed with bare eyes, swords made from light can parry each other, Han can leave the Falcon in space with just a breathing mask on ... speed of faster than light travel does not follow any intrinsic rules, but just story telling aspects ...

It's a fairy tale ... if unrealistic science fiction aspects kill a story for you, maybe you're better suited with CSI?

Mostly disliked the movie, but here's what I did like:

* Cinematography

* Opening scene vs the Dreadnought

* Finn and Rose's introduction. Reinforces that Finn is still not a real member of the Resistance, everything he did in TFA was for Rey.

* Royal Guard fight scene

* Falcon chase scene on Krayt (unoriginal but still enjoyable)

* Everything Snoke was doing until he got punted by the writers. He carried his villain card a little too much (I cringed when he said the word "spunk") but his machinations were clever and Force powers seemed limitless which made him feel like the only legitimate threat to the heroes other than their own stupidity. Kylo and Hux are babies compared to what Snoke represented.

* Porgs. They were adorable and comical and didn't detract from the plot while helping to lighten the tone.

* Adam Drivers, Laura Derns, and Mark Hamills performance. Even though all three had major problems with how their characters were written, all the actors did their damndest to make it work. Driver and Hamill stood out to me as exceptional performances.

Just watched this movie a second time. A lot of the problems I had with the movie are now gone because I finally get what is going on with this movie and the whole point of it. The real problem this movie has is that it is over everyone's head. It's like a joke, if you have to explain it, it isn't funny. This movie has to be explained to understand and then enjoy it. It is the job of the movie makers to communicate not the audience's. So in that since this movie failed. Of course, that is the whole point of this movie, to fail again and again and again until you get it right. I think they even brought out old puppet Yoda to tell us that much and still, we didn't get it.

It is actually a very smart movie that improves upon repeat views, which is what a SW movie should do. So much better than that JJ remake of EP4 trash.

Overall I enjoyed the movie and was entertained, but there were things that I felt a bit disappointed by or that did not make sense.

The starship chase felt rather force, why couldn't some of the First Order ships jump a little bit ahead of the Resistance ships and cut them off? Or as someone else said, all the star fighters on those star destroyers likely would have tore the Resistance ships apart.

I also felt (like someone else mentioned) that it made little sense how the First Order built up such a military power compared to the rest of the galaxy. There may be books and the like that help explain that more, but it did not seem to make much sense from the two movies.

I also would have thought that Leia, given her experiences with the Alliance, would have known the value in having the Resistance scattered into smaller groups, rather than having all the personnel in one location.

I really did like the fight with Snork's guards and Luke's "duel" with Ren at the end. Unlike some I was not so bothered by the Hoth-like battle at the end, but my view might be slanted having played Battlefront II's version of that battle before seeing the movie.

18 hours ago, Thevshi said:

Overall I enjoyed the movie and was entertained, but there were things that I felt a bit disappointed by or that did not make sense.

The starship chase felt rather force, why couldn't some of the First Order ships jump a little bit ahead of the Resistance ships and cut them off? Or as someone else said, all the star fighters on those star destroyers likely would have tore the Resistance ships apart.

I also felt (like someone else mentioned) that it made little sense how the First Order built up such a military power compared to the rest of the galaxy. There may be books and the like that help explain that more, but it did not seem to make much sense from the two movies.

I also would have thought that Leia, given her experiences with the Alliance, would have known the value in having the Resistance scattered into smaller groups, rather than having all the personnel in one location.

I really did like the fight with Snork's guards and Luke's "duel" with Ren at the end. Unlike some I was not so bothered by the Hoth-like battle at the end, but my view might be slanted having played Battlefront II's version of that battle before seeing the movie.

The movie is all about failure, including the first orders failures. They failed to launch TIEs at the beginning. They got complacent in the chase and didn't try too hard. They made the point the fighters couldn't keep up with the cruisers so far from their base ships as well.

The new EU explains why the galaxy is as it is. Leia got outted as Vader's daughter. Vader hurt and killed a lot of people and in the end, only bothered to save his own son. He is anything but a hero. The New Republic went all liberal and disarmed after the war, so it had no military (neither did the Old Republic until Palp manufactured one for them). The New Order was able to rise in the power vacuum left behind. All of this probably needed to be explained in the movie, but world building seems to have been completely left to the books to do.

The Resistance as very very small. They only have a base worth. What you see is all there is. At the end of the movie they were all able to fit on board the Falcon. They are more of a committee than an army. The Rebels weren't much different hiding out on Yavin or Hoth. Just not big enough to be all over the place, cept in the books.

On 12/29/2017 at 7:41 PM, Mep said:

Just watched this movie a second time. A lot of the problems I had with the movie are now gone because I finally get what is going on with this movie and the whole point of it. The real problem this movie has is that it is over everyone's head. It's like a joke, if you have to explain it, it isn't funny. This movie has to be explained to understand and then enjoy it. It is the job of the movie makers to communicate not the audience's. So in that since this movie failed. Of course, that is the whole point of this movie, to fail again and again and again until you get it right. I think they even brought out old puppet Yoda to tell us that much and still, we didn't get it.

It is actually a very smart movie that improves upon repeat views, which is what a SW movie should do. So much better than that JJ remake of EP4 trash.

This is either a beautiful troll post or a sad self deception

Microsoft must have dropped a lot of money to have Kylo and Rey use Skype for Force Users in such a prominent way.

On 1/1/2018 at 7:39 AM, qwertyuiop said:

This is either a beautiful troll post or a sad self deception

Because someone disagrees with you? I feel nearly the same way as Mep after I reflected on the movie and then saw it a second time. It is quickly becoming one of my favorites the more I think about it.

On 12/30/2017 at 2:09 PM, Mep said:

The new EU explains why the galaxy is as it is. Leia got outted as Vader's daughter. Vader hurt and killed a lot of people and in the end, only bothered to save his own son. He is anything but a hero. The New Republic went all liberal and disarmed after the war, so it had no military (neither did the Old Republic until Palp manufactured one for them). The New Order was able to rise in the power vacuum left behind. All of this probably needed to be explained in the movie, but world building seems to have been completely left to the books to do.

The Resistance as very very small. They only have a base worth. What you see is all there is. At the end of the movie they were all able to fit on board the Falcon. They are more of a committee than an army. The Rebels weren't much different hiding out on Yavin or Hoth. Just not big enough to be all over the place, cept in the books.

I love the new EU. I hate it so much when people complain about "plot holes" that are not actually plot holes and/or are covered in the new EU.

I've had more conversations than I want to think about that go like this:

Quote

Guy: "How did the First Order become so powerful without the Republic noticing? It makes no sense."

Me: "They hid in the outer regions and established a power base from there, while also being secretly supported by factions within the NR"

Guy: "The movies never told us that!"

Me: "But the books did"

Guy: "Well, I shouldn't have to read the books to understand the movie"

Me: "True, but you don't have to know that to understand the movie. The OT didn't explain how the empire came to power."

Guy: "But that was the first one, so it doesn't count. This is just a plot hole"

Me: "A plot hole is a contradiction that can't be explained away. This is not a contradiction and can easily be explained away"

Guy: "Yeah, but the old EU was so much better. All the new canon is just terrible fan fiction"

Me: "Yup. Unlike those stories about the emperor being cloned, ig-88 controlling the death star 2, or boba fett falling into the sarlacc pit a second time are all masterpieces"

Don't get me wrong, I love legends. I'm making a point of collecting/reading all the trade paperbacks. There are some fantastic books in legends. And I'll even concede that the new canon has not quite hit the same highs as the old canon.

However, it has come really close. Also, the quality is so much more consistent in the new EU. I make a point of staying caught up with the new stuff* and (with the exception of a couple short stories and a couple comics**) none of it has been bad. It's not all been perfect, but it has all been at least enjoyable. A couple of the kid's books are a little dumb (though servants of the empire is better than a lot of the adult fiction) And some of the books (Bloodline, Thrawn, Phasma) deserve to stand alongside the best of the old EU.



*I am a little bit behind and still need to read Legends of Luke Skywalker, Colbalt Squadron, Join the Resistance 2, the two most recent Adventures in Wild space books, and the 2 most recent comics)
**Did you know there is a "Rebels Mini Comic" series? It was put in a UK magazine originally, but the last handful of them were in rebels magazine. They are almost impossible to find and not worth the effort. One of the three things in canon that I really truly hate. (The other two are the short stories "All creatures great and small" and "Added Muscle")

Thanks for the info on the new EU Cade. I had heard a little of that from various sources, but so far have not read any of the new EU books. I used to read all the old EU books (which are now legends) but eventually felt the books were getting a bit to out there and stopped reading them.

Even though I understand what the new EU books have to say and what you have briefly explained from them, I still have a slight feeling that some of the things seem odd. Like I question how the New Republic could just disarm without something like the Jedi around to server as peackeepers (as they did in the Old Republic). I suppose it could have fallen on the local systems to provide defense forces.

I suppose a bit of this is because I am more "old fashion" and like what West End Games did to build the Star Wars EU, back in 1987 when they first released their Star Wars RPG and were the only source of EU. They really built on the skeleton from the OT in a way that made sense and a number of the ideas they came up with have been kept or revived in the new EU. (The Juggernauts from Revenge of the Sith, Rouge One and Clone Wars cartoon originally appeared in WEG's Imperial Source Book. The origin of the B-Wing show in Rebels drew heavily from a WEG adventure that introduced the development of the B-Wing, the episode even bears part of the name of the adventure).

But anyway, despite my nits (be they right or wrong) I overall enjoyed the movie.

So, any suggestions on which new EU books one should focus on first? Or an order in which one should read them?

4 hours ago, Wired4War said:

Because someone disagrees with you? I feel nearly the same way as Mep after I reflected on the movie and then saw it a second time. It is quickly becoming one of my favorites the more I think about it.

No. Because it's either a beautiful troll or a sad self deception. If you want to enjoy garbage, feel free.

3 hours ago, Cade Bulkin said:

I love the new EU. I hate it so much when people complain about "plot holes" that are not actually plot holes and/or are covered in the new EU.

I've had more conversations than I want to think about that go like this:

Don't get me wrong, I love legends. I'm making a point of collecting/reading all the trade paperbacks. There are some fantastic books in legends. And I'll even concede that the new canon has not quite hit the same highs as the old canon.

However, it has come really close. Also, the quality is so much more consistent in the new EU. I make a point of staying caught up with the new stuff* and (with the exception of a couple short stories and a couple comics**) none of it has been bad. It's not all been perfect, but it has all been at least enjoyable. A couple of the kid's books are a little dumb (though servants of the empire is better than a lot of the adult fiction) And some of the books (Bloodline, Thrawn, Phasma) deserve to stand alongside the best of the old EU.



*I am a little bit behind and still need to read Legends of Luke Skywalker, Colbalt Squadron, Join the Resistance 2, the two most recent Adventures in Wild space books, and the 2 most recent comics)
**Did you know there is a "Rebels Mini Comic" series? It was put in a UK magazine originally, but the last handful of them were in rebels magazine. They are almost impossible to find and not worth the effort. One of the three things in canon that I really truly hate. (The other two are the short stories "All creatures great and small" and "Added Muscle")

When the new stuff makes people long for the prequels, there might be a problem. The movie does have plot holes, but a lot of those are forgivable. Movies do that. I think, and this is from people I've talked to, TLJ just leaves some feeling like something is wrong and they just can't put their finger on it. TLJ may be an ok adventure movie(maybe), but it's not a good Star Wars movie.

2 minutes ago, qwertyuiop said:

No. Because it's either a beautiful troll or a sad self deception. If you want to enjoy garbage, feel free.

You're the only troll here. People are giving their detailed opinions and you're responding with baseless insults. There might be things you like that other people don't, it doesn't make your enjoyments garbage (unless you're into literal garbage, which is totally cool, just wash your hands afterwards).

9 minutes ago, Wired4War said:

You're the only troll here. People are giving their detailed opinions and you're responding with baseless insults. There might be things you like that other people don't, it doesn't make your enjoyments garbage (unless you're into literal garbage, which is totally cool, just wash your hands afterwards).

Now it's worth it.

4 hours ago, Thevshi said:

Thanks for the info on the new EU Cade. I had heard a little of that from various sources, but so far have not read any of the new EU books. I used to read all the old EU books (which are now legends) but eventually felt the books were getting a bit to out there and stopped reading them.

Even though I understand what the new EU books have to say and what you have briefly explained from them, I still have a slight feeling that some of the things seem odd. Like I question how the New Republic could just disarm without something like the Jedi around to server as peackeepers (as they did in the Old Republic). I suppose it could have fallen on the local systems to provide defense forces.

I suppose a bit of this is because I am more "old fashion" and like what West End Games did to build the Star Wars EU, back in 1987 when they first released their Star Wars RPG and were the only source of EU. They really built on the skeleton from the OT in a way that made sense and a number of the ideas they came up with have been kept or revived in the new EU. (The Juggernauts from Revenge of the Sith, Rouge One and Clone Wars cartoon originally appeared in WEG's Imperial Source Book. The origin of the B-Wing show in Rebels drew heavily from a WEG adventure that introduced the development of the B-Wing, the episode even bears part of the name of the adventure).

But anyway, despite my nits (be they right or wrong) I overall enjoyed the movie.

The desicsion to demilitarize the new republic was...controversial to say the least.

I don't want to spoil much, but here is kinda the tl;dr of it all:

Mon Mothma wanted to greatly reduce the military presense of the New Republic after the war against the empire was over to help show the galaxy that they were not like the empire and would not rule by fear and might, but by cooperation and comprimise.

At the time, the Empire was gone and no one in the republic had heard of the "First Order" so having a huge Standing Army was not really needed. They did'nt have anyone to fight and they did'nt want to rule by force, so it makes some sense. There still was an army, but it had limits place on how big it could grow. It was mainly to keep tabs on local defense forces, who had more direct control. (Besides, the old republic did'nt have an army until the clones showed up)

And again, this was most certianly not something everyone agreed on. In fact, it was a large part of the reason for the new rebuplic eventually fracturing into two political parties: The Populists and the Centrist. Basically, the populists wanted systems to be mostly self governing with the NR doing as little as possible. Meanwhile, the Centerists belived that the NR should take more direct conrtol over things. They basically liked the idea of what the empire "could have been" if the leaders were good people.

Meanwhile, the First Order is secretly building a power base in the outer regions, well outside of NR terrirory.

There isa lot more to it than that, but I don't want to spoil the really jucy bits.

The NR in the old EU never demilitarized because they had a constant barrage of threats. It took them another decade after ROTJ to completely end the war with the empire and then new threats started coming. The new cannon NR got rid of the empire in a year and did'nt see even a hint of the FO until nearly two decades later.

And I know what you are thinking, it is crazy to think that the rest of the empire was taken down in a year. Without reading the books, I'd agree with you, but with context, it makes a lot more sense. Again, I don't want to spoil much, but suffice to say that the "defeat" of the empire was really the birth of the First Order.

Quote

So, any suggestions on which new EU books one should focus on first? Or an order in which one should read them?

It does not really matter where you start or what order you choose. Sometimes books reference each other, but for the most part you can read them in whatever order you want and it will make sense. It is really more about what you would rather focus on reading about first. I can point you to some of the (in my opinion) better books and ones that have a lot of the best information.

If you want to know more about the last days of the Empire, I'd reccomend the Aftermath Trilogy. It is really enjoyable (especially the last one) and gives a lot of neat little insights about how the galaxy as a whole responded to the battle of endor. It focuses mostly on original characters. You will see most of the original cast (Except luke, he is nowhere in this book) but they are not the main characters. Personally, I kinda like that aspect of it, but some people don't. (If nothing else sinjir rath velus and Mr. Bones are contenders for most entertaining Star Wars characters yet)

(Fair warning, a lot of people don't like the guy's writing style in the first couple books. It is kind of a short, choppy style. If that is a dealbreaker for you, I'd reccomend the audiobook, as it sounds better spoken aloud.)

If you want something a little closer to TFA and like political thrillers, I'd reccomend "Bloodlines" by Claudia Grey (I'd reccomend any of her SW books, really). It takes place *about* 20 years after the battle of Endor and focuses on Leia. I don't want to say much because I don't want to spoil anything, but this is my favorite book in the new canon and I'd recommend it to anyone.

Speaking of Claudia Grey, "Lost Stars" is a book she wrote about two best friends who join the empire togather. One of them relizes how evil it is and defects, but the other one remains loyal. It's really neat seeing things from both points of view. This books is a little fanservice-y at times (they are at so many iconic events, that I've heard it called Star Wars: Forest Gump) but really, really good. I could'nt put it down.

If you enjoyed the original Thrawn Trilogy, you would probably like the book "Thrawn" (and yes, Timothy Zahn wrote it). This book is about Thawn's rise to the rank of Grand Admiral. It leads into his appearence in the Rebels TV series (and the book is getting a sequel later this year). Again, I don't want to say much, but suffice to say that it is a Zahn Thrawn book, so you know it is going to be good.

If you liked James Luceno's books in the original cannon, you will also like his new ones. Specifically, Catalyst. It is a prequel to Rogue One and deals with Galen Erso and Director Krennic's relationship before Rogue One.

If you want something focusing on the "War" aspect of Star Wars, Battlefront: Twillight Company is a a fantastic gritty war story. (It has no real relation to the game if you have not played it).

Want a book that is basically "Mad Max" but in the Star Wars galaxy? Liked Phasma but wish she had a bigger role in the films? Have I got a treat for you: "Phasma" is all that and more.

Did someone say "But what about the clone wars"? Dark Disiple is based on unfinished scripts for a giant 8 episode arc about Assaj Ventress and Quinlan Voss and it is dope.

...I could go one and on, lol. But those are probably, in my opinion, the highlights. If you have any questions about any specific books (or events) let me know and I'll be happy to answer.

Thanks for the long response Cade. Again I was aware of some of that from a variety of sources (including the campaign more in Battlefront II).

Sounds like I will at least be looking to read the Aftermath Trilogy, Bloodlines and Thrawn and maybe look at some of those others you mention as well (I have actually read the Twilight Company one, so I have read one part of the new EU )

27 minutes ago, Thevshi said:

Thanks for the long response Cade. Again I was aware of some of that from a variety of sources (including the campaign more in Battlefront II).

Sounds like I will at least be looking to read the Aftermath Trilogy, Bloodlines and Thrawn and maybe look at some of those others you mention as well (I have actually read the Twilight Company one, so I have read one part of the new EU )

I hope you like them as much as I did!

5 hours ago, Cade Bulkin said:

(Fair warning, a lot of people don't like the guy's writing style in the first couple books. It is kind of a short, choppy style.

I read most of the old Legends stuff growing up, so I was cautiously interested in the new canon when it started... until I read a few sneak preview chapters that they released of Aftermath. Unfortunately what you've described was exactly my reaction - I couldn't handle the writing style to the point where I couldn't bring myself to buy the book. I'd kind of written off the rest of the new EU after that and haven't really looked into it at all.

I appreciate the summaries - it gives me some hope that I may have more luck with some of the other books. I might start with Thrawn, as I was a big fan of the old Zahn novels.

I'm glad this TLJ gripe thread has turned into people helping each other explore the Star Wars EU! Gives me a little bit of (or maybe, a New? ) hope for the Star Wars fanbase

On 1/6/2018 at 1:04 AM, Stompburger said:

I'm glad this TLJ gripe thread has turned into people helping each other explore the Star Wars EU! Gives me a little bit of (or maybe, a New? ) hope for the Star Wars fanbase

Hey now, it was supposed to be a "discussion" thread.

Glad to see the direction it's going, though!

I'd agree that Aftermath is... tough to get through. In my personal experience, I hated the first Aftermath book, but I ended up having a great time with the second (after the choppy opening few chapters) and the third (which was pretty consistently good). Sloane is one of my favorite new canon characters, and I'd love for her to get featured more.

Thrawn and Tarkin are pretty good- both feature more strategic Star Wars characters, so don't expect a ton of direct action. Both also give some insight into the early Empire, which is pretty cool. Overall, I'd give Thrawn a big advantage over Tarkin, but both are still good reads.

Lost Stars might be my favorite so far. The writing style is a little YAL, and I'm not sure it really brings a whole lot to the lore, but it's a pretty cool story! Don't buy into the Romeo/Juliet comparisons- instead, think a more serious Forrest Gump love story set across the Galactic Civil war.

A New Dawn was okay. It was neat seeing Hera fleshed out a little more, but ultimately the plot was pretty weak. Vidian seems like a neat villain, but I doubt they'll do much with him.

I honestly can't get through the first Battlefront book. It's just... I don't know. I just don't enjoy it. Maybe I just need to buckle down and finish it, since the second one is apparently really good, but I've been told that this book is good too and I completely disagree.

The comics get some hate, but from what I've read, I enjoy them.

The Star Wars run is pretty fun. Silly at sometimes, and sometimes so deep in the lore that it seems to overstep its bounds (including a liberal interpretation of Luke's first encounter with Vader being on Bespin) but ultimately I can't complain much.

The original Vader run is gold. Absolutely loved it. If you like the Vader scene in Rogue One, prepare for a solid run of that. "Vader Down" is a crossover with the main Star Wars run, and it's pretty fun, too. I also read the first trade of the new Vader last night, and while I don't like it as much as the older one, I think it does some neat things. By setting it directly after the Clone Wars, you can see some pretty neat evolutions of Vader and the Empire itself.

I just started reading Aphra's line, too. If you don't know who she is, I suggest starting with the original Vader comics. That being said, she's a neat original character, kind of an Indiana Jones in space sort of thing.

And, not sure if all of you watch Rebels or the Clone Wars, but they're a lot of fun! Clone Wars could get a little sidetracked and Rebels admittedly has some problems with filler episodes, but both of these shows also include some of the most incredible moments in Star Wars canon.

3 hours ago, subtrendy2 said:

I'd agree that Aftermath is... tough to get through. In my personal experience, I hated the first Aftermath book, but I ended up having a great time with the second (after the choppy opening few chapters) and the third (which was pretty consistently good). Sloane is one of my favorite new canon characters, and I'd love for her to get featured more.

I totally understand the feeling, but I hate that people feel that way. I've always had a preference for that kind of choppy writing, but that's just my weird taste. It does work *much* better as an audiobook though.

3 hours ago, subtrendy2 said:

Lost Stars might be my favorite so far. The writing style is a little YAL, and I'm not sure it really brings a whole lot to the lore, but it's a pretty cool story! Don't buy into the Romeo/Juliet comparisons- instead, think a more serious Forrest Gump love story set across the Galactic Civil war.

This was my favorite until I read bloodline by the same author. It's so good. She also writes a book about young Leia that has a 16 year old Holdo in it (she is pretty much luna lovegood)

3 hours ago, subtrendy2 said:

I honestly can't get through the first Battlefront book. It's just... I don't know. I just don't enjoy it. Maybe I just need to buckle down and finish it, since the second one is apparently really good, but I've been told that this book is good too and I completely disagree.

I really enjoyed it, but it is one that I totally imagine someone not enjoying. It feels really slow for a book about soldiers in the middle of combat. If you want to read the second one, but can't get through this one, don't worry about it. The second book has absolutely no connection to the first. Inferno Squad is fun, though, I feel like it goes downhill a little during the last 1/3 of the book. It is still good, but it could have been better.

3 hours ago, subtrendy2 said:

The comics get some hate, but from what I've read, I enjoy them.

The Star Wars run is pretty fun. Silly at sometimes, and sometimes so deep in the lore that it seems to overstep its bounds (including a liberal interpretation of Luke's first encounter with Vader being on Bespin) but ultimately I can't complain much.

The quality of the main Star Wars title varies quite a bit. I think it probably gets more hate than it deserves, but it gets pretty bad at times. The first few arcs were good and any of the ben kenobi journal issues are fantatic. But it started to get bad around the end of "the Last Flight of the Harbinger" storyline (which had a lot of cool ideas but felt clumbsy at times). I found the yoda arc to be boring and just annoying (I tried to enjoy it, I really did) The crossover with Aphra was ... it was a thing that happened.

But after that, it started to get good again. I've not read the most recent issue, but I do think it is getting back on track (they brought in the vader writer)

3 hours ago, subtrendy2 said:

The original Vader run is gold. Absolutely loved it. If you like the Vader scene in Rogue One, prepare for a solid run of that. "Vader Down" is a crossover with the main Star Wars run, and it's pretty fun, too. I also read the first trade of the new Vader last night, and while I don't like it as much as the older one, I think it does some neat things. By setting it directly after the Clone Wars, you can see some pretty neat evolutions of Vader and the Empire itself.

They are both gold. I kinda though the end of the first Vader run was a letdown, but it was otherwise perfect. This new one is wonderful, though.

3 hours ago, subtrendy2 said:

I just started reading Aphra's line, too. If you don't know who she is, I suggest starting with the original Vader comics. That being said, she's a neat original character, kind of an Indiana Jones in space sort of thing.

This one is pretty solid. I've enjoyed all of it except the screaming citadel. However, the current arc is currently the best part of the series so far.

3 hours ago, subtrendy2 said:

And, not sure if all of you watch Rebels or the Clone Wars, but they're a lot of fun! Clone Wars could get a little sidetracked and Rebels admittedly has some problems with filler episodes, but both of these shows also include some of the most incredible moments in Star Wars canon.

Clone wars seasons 1 and 2 are mostly garbage, imo. However 3 and on are *fantastic* and I love them.

Rebels has some filler episodes in the early seasons, but not as many here lately. I love that series so much. I can't wait to find out when season 4 comes back from the midseason break.

I agree about Clone Wars seasons 1 and 2, though it was getting better towards the end of 2. I started not to like it after 4. And, Rebels started badly as well. I was never liked Zeb, Sabine, or Ezra. I've warmed up to Ezra, but I don't like the other two. I really like Hera, but I absolutely loathe Jar-Jar Choppah. Still, after seeing TLJ, Rebels has become orders of magnitude better in my eyes.

Just to avoid making this too disjointed (and honestly, this is a fantastic conversation!

@Cade Bulkin

- yeah, I'm not sure what it is about Twilight Company and the first Aftermath- maybe it's because they tend to be more action heavy than the rest, and I've found action descriptions in Star Wars to be a bit cringey. Even in Imperial Assault, I honestly hate how many times I've had to read the equivalent of "a blaster bolt flies over your head" and its like.

-I'll definitely have to give Claudia's Bloodlines (and Princess of Alderaan) a try too, then! I've been meaning to for a while now, but I keep forgetting.

-Yeah, the Yoda arc of the comics is the lowpoint, in my opinion. They're not perfect by any means, but I think the good definitely outweighs the bad.

@Rikalonius and Cade

Interesting how your tastes in Clone Wars almost don't even overlap. Just to weigh in, I think the average arc quality was better in the earlier seasons. Generally they felt like they actually mattered (like the Ryloth Arc or Cad Bane's first arc) and the more political stuff tended to take a backseat. Additionally, earlier seasons focused less on Anakin/Obi Wan/Ahsoka and also commonly featured other characters from the films. This did a great job at not making their timelines feel oversaturated. In my opinion, the later seasons focused too much on them, and when they tried to break off from the main story the arcs that were chosen just often seemed terrible. Instead of seeing Kit Fisto and his padawan take on Greivous in the creature's lair, we see a group of droids and some tiny frog man wander the desert for four excruciating episodes. Plus, by the end of the series, it seemed like everything had to be a chronological arc- even the mentioned droid arc, or the Younglings arc (which would've been cool, but probably didn't need four entire episodes, a one off would've been fine).

And yeah, I love Rebels but not all the characters are great. Ezra is kind of annoying, and I haven't warmed up to Kanan yet either. Zeb isn't great, obviously. I really like Hera and Sabine is pretty cool in my opinion (though I get why people have issues with her). Honestly, outside of Hera, some of the greatest characters are side characters and villains.

8 minutes ago, subtrendy2 said:

I'm not sure what it is about Twilight Company and the first Aftermath- maybe it's because they tend to be more action heavy than the rest, and I've found action descriptions in Star Wars to be a bit cringey.

I can totally relate there. The action parts were my least favorite (despite liking them) and that also made it hard for me to get really into Lords of the Sith. I enjoyed it, but there is a long action scene that lasts, like, a million chapters that just started to feel boring to me.

Sidenote: I'm working my way through the old canon and I've started the x-wing books. Stackpole has done something I never thought possible: Described star-fighter combat from the pilot's perspective in a way that is super engaging and exciting. It's hard to describe action, harder to describe action in 3 dimensions, but he nails it.

11 minutes ago, subtrendy2 said:

Even in Imperial Assault, I honestly hate how many times I've had to read the equivalent of "a blaster bolt flies over your head" and its like.

I run IA and GM a Star Wars RPG group. I know the pain. Action is so hard to describe effectively without it getting repetitively.

12 minutes ago, subtrendy2 said:

Yeah, the Yoda arc of the comics is the lowpoint, in my opinion. They're not perfect by any means, but I think the good definitely outweighs the bad.

I agree. I still enjoy the comics quite a bit, but there are some problems. Especially that arc. It felt like they decided to write a yoda version of Mad Max 3 but they forgot to add the good parts of that film and just left the weird part where max is hanging out with kids.

14 minutes ago, subtrendy2 said:

Interesting how your tastes in Clone Wars almost don't even overlap. Just to weigh in, I think the average arc quality was better in the earlier seasons. Generally they felt like they actually mattered (like the Ryloth Arc or Cad Bane's first arc) and the more political stuff tended to take a backseat.

Ryloth, Cad Bane, and Rookies are all great. There is some good stuff in the first couple seasons, but most arcs had 1 really good episode, 1 "ok" episode, and 1 episode about jar jar curing space cancer. It was just all over the place and Ashoka was annoying (she became my favorite character later on) and it was just not enough to keep me engaged.

17 minutes ago, subtrendy2 said:

In my opinion, the later seasons focused too much on them, and when they tried to break off from the main story the arcs that were chosen just often seemed terrible. Instead of seeing Kit Fisto and his padawan take on Greivous in the creature's lair, we see a group of droids and some tiny frog man wander the desert for four excruciating episodes. Plus, by the end of the series, it seemed like everything had to be a chronological arc- even the mentioned droid arc, or the Younglings arc (which would've been cool, but probably didn't need four entire episodes, a one off would've been fine).

Very good points. I would have loved to have seen less stuff focused on the main characters. And yeah, some of the arcs were way too long. Especially the weird desert one. That felt like a couple seasons. Still, it felt like even the low points of the later seasons were better than most of the stuff in the early seasons. (Even the Jar Jar episode with Mace Windu was pretty enjoyable somehow)

19 minutes ago, subtrendy2 said:

And yeah, I love Rebels but not all the characters are great. Ezra is kind of annoying, and I haven't warmed up to Kanan yet either. Zeb isn't great, obviously. I really like Hera and Sabine is pretty cool in my opinion (though I get why people have issues with her). Honestly, outside of Hera, some of the greatest characters are side characters and villains.

I love Rebels more than makes sense to me, lol. Ezra is annoying af, but he has grown on me. I love Kanan (especially after reading his comic and seeing all the change he has gone through between a new dawn and now) and Hera (sexy badass twilek pilot. what's not to love?). Zeb and Chopper took some time for me to warm up to, but they are ok.

Sabine is my goddess though. <3 <3 <3