My PCs just recovered Obi-wan's lightsaber, but I haven't statted it yet. What would you suggest?

(Not aware of and not interested in FFG's official stats if they exist, just what might seem appropriate as Kenobi's venerable lightsaber.)

Thank you!

As far as hilt attachments, I'd say Superior Hilt, Extended Hilt, and Pommel Cap attachments. The crystal was an Ilum crystal.

2 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

As far as hilt attachments, I'd say Superior Hilt, Extended Hilt, and Pommel Cap attachments. The crystal was an Ilum crystal.

Great, thank you!

The PCs, on an unrelated mission to Yavin III (another moon of Yavin), helped the locals investigate a disturbing vergence in the Force at the site of a shuttle crash. They faced dark visions (and all manner of skill checks!), and came away mentally wounded, but at the end of their trials a bright light dissipated the darkness and they discovered locked away in the shuttle Obi-wan's lightsaber! My reasoning was, Tarkin claimed the lightsaber as a trophy of the Empire, and it left without Tarkin in his private shuttle, only to crash on Yavin III as the Death Star's detonation threw it off course. The dark vergence formed as the darkness of the Empire's super weapon and so many villainous leaders perished. It was an epic night, the players loved it, and I hope it seemed plausible within the wider story as we know it!

No it doesnt have a extended hilt. It is a standard Lightsaber hilt. Maybe Superior and pommel cap.

Without the Obi-Wan fanboying, it was just a standard Ilum crystal lightsaber with a pommel cap.

2 hours ago, BipolarJuice said:

Without the Obi-Wan fanboying, it was just a standard Ilum crystal lightsaber with a pommel cap.

Why even the pommel cap?

A nasty GM would make it a fully upgraded crystal and the throw in genelock with the self destruct mod...

Simplest answer is to just use the Lightsaber stats from EotE/AoR, which is in effect a basic lightsaber with a fully modded Ilum crystal, but no remaining hard points.

If you want to be lenient to the PCs, you could say that it has a couple of spare hard points so that they could chose to customize it a bit (such as adding a Superior Hilt Customization or a Custom Grip to personalize it to them). But frankly, having a fully modified Ilum crystal (which is an incredibly daunting task for PCs unless they've heavily invested in Mechanics and Force Rating) is enough of a prize by itself.

3 hours ago, penpenpen said:

A nasty GM would make it a fully upgraded crystal and the throw in genelock with the self destruct mod...

So THAT's how Anakin lost his hand...

2 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Simplest answer is to just use the Lightsaber stats from EotE/AoR, which is in effect a basic lightsaber with a fully modded Ilum crystal, but no remaining hard points.

If you want to be lenient to the PCs, you could say that it has a couple of spare hard points so that they could chose to customize it a bit (such as adding a Superior Hilt Customization or a Custom Grip to personalize it to them). But frankly, having a fully modified Ilum crystal (which is an incredibly daunting task for PCs unless they've heavily invested in Mechanics and Force Rating) is enough of a prize by itself.

Having it come with a custom grip (adapted for Obi-wan, of course) could be used to give them a simple way of making it "better". Just inform them that for some reason that it doesn't sit to well in their hands and add the two setback dice, and don't inform them exactly why until they sit down and give it a thorough examination. Then they'll have the chance of improving it significantly by just removing an attachment.

Of course, if they're not used to tinkering with lightsabers, maybe just make them roll an easy mechanics roll. It's just one purple die, it's not like they could screw that up too badly. Hey, is that a dark destiny point? Why not flip it to make it a single red. I mean, what are the chances of rolling a despair? And even if you do, how bad could that be?

Never be afraid to terrorize your players in order to curb their tendency to fiddle with everything at the drop of a hat.

I know gamers love having rules to tweak and there is a long EU tradition of light-saber crystal nerdery out there.

Its tempting!

But, in canon, we don't really hear anything about different crystals.

To that end, I prefer not to get bogged down in light-saber crystal tangents and use EOTE/AOR sabers.

You can get a superior hilt, pommel cap, etc... but the crystals and damage are all the same.

The story isn't about the lightsaber and crystal - its about the Jedi who wields it.

I want the players to focus on modding the Jedi's personality and story arc.

I know, many fanboy players will hate that, but they don't have to play in my game.

Besides, the EOTE/AOR lightsaber is scary .

2 minutes ago, Vondy said:

I know gamers love having rules to tweak and there is a long EU tradition of light-saber crystal nerdery out there.

Its tempting!

But, in canon, we don't really hear anything about different crystals.

To that end, I prefer not to get bogged down in light-saber crystal tangents and use EOTE/AOR sabers.

You can get a superior hilt, pommel cap, etc... but the crystals and damage are all the same.

The story isn't about the lightsaber and crystal - its about the Jedi who wields it.

I want the players to focus on modding the Jedi's personality and story arc.

I know, many fanboy players will hate that, but they don't have to play in my game.

Besides, the EOTE/AOR lightsaber is scary .

I will likely go something like this route... I'm not crazy for crystals, and tend toward simpler (but authentic) expressions of the rules, so something like the EotE lightsaber sounds great. But - and this is important and I'm sure you'd agree - the player who acquired the lightsaber is all about reading through the book and checking out the mods, et cetera. So, I definitely want to explain it with him in a way that will really enthuse him. Thanks for all the help, y'all.

6 minutes ago, andynorton said:

I will likely go something like this route... I'm not crazy for crystals, and tend toward simpler (but authentic) expressions of the rules, so something like the EotE lightsaber sounds great. But - and this is important and I'm sure you'd agree - the player who acquired the lightsaber is all about reading through the book and checking out the mods, et cetera. So, I definitely want to explain it with him in a way that will really enthuse him. Thanks for all the help, y'all.

I do agree. Communicating the reasoning behind decisions like this is very important.

16 hours ago, Daeglan said:

No it doesnt have a extended hilt. It is a standard Lightsaber hilt. Maybe Superior and pommel cap.

His lightsaber can be used two-handed . We see him do so in the movies. That requires the Extended hilt attachment. Otherwise it is strictly a one -handed weapon as per RAW.

24 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

His lightsaber can be used two-handed . We see him do so in the movies. That requires the Extended hilt attachment. Otherwise it is strictly a one -handed weapon as per RAW.

Lol, so every lightsaber we see in all the movies must have an extended hilt??

5 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

Lol, so every lightsaber we see in all the movies must have an extended hilt??

Probably a good portion of them. Considering that it's one of the less expensive attachments, and a very versatile one, it's probably also a very popular one, albeit not universal. For example, the hilts on Ashoka's sabers were shorter, and purely designed for one-handed use, and therefore, did not have that attachment. the same with her white-bladed ones . Remember, a standard lightsaber hilt could measure between 20 to 30 centemeters with shorter hilts being strictly one-handed, and the longer hilts being for either one or two handed use. These are the ones with the Extended hilt attachment.

1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:

His lightsaber can be used two-handed . We see him do so in the movies. That requires the Extended hilt attachment. Otherwise it is strictly a one -handed weapon as per RAW.

As is pare for the course, you're quite mistaken.

There's nothing stopping a character from using any weapon in this game with two hands, be it a lightsaber, a blaster pistol, or a vibroblade. It's just that unlike some RPGs, there's zero benefit in this system from using a two-handed grip on most weapons. And nowhere in the rules does it say such weapons must be used with a single hand. In fact, about the only time it's specified how many hands are required to use a weapon are those that require two hands to use, with such examples of this being the vibro-ax and the lightsaber pike, along with others scattered in various splats.

While the Extended Hilt doesn't explicitly cite that a lightsaber with such requires two hands to wield in the Base Modifiers section, the description of the attachment does cite that it increases the weapon's striking power by "using the leverage of the longer handle and a two handed grip," very strongly suggesting that one needs to use two hands for a lightsaber with this attachment much as a wielder needs to use two hands to effectively wield a vibro-ax (per its description) or fire a blaster rifle, as noted on page 160 of the F&D core rulebook under the Ranged (Heavy) entry under Combat Skills.

Given that we routinely see basic lightsabers being used almost interchangeably with a one-handed or two-handed grip, it's a frankly asinine presumption that a basic lightsaber hilt is limited to only a single hand, and that any instances of a character using two hands on their lightsaber automatically means it's an extended hilt. In ESB we see Vader rather casually start out with a single-handed grip when sparring with Luke, a display of his sense of superiority and contempt for Luke's lack of prowess. We see Luke wield his father's lightsaber with one and two hands at various points in the same film, and does the same with his own lightsaber in RotJ.

I treat crystal mods as only usable by the owner of the lightsaber to reflect the relationship between the force user and the crystal. Anyone else who uses it gets the basic Ilum crystal starting stats no matter what crystal is present. House rule that helps prevent powerful relic lightsabers from throwing some encounters out of balance.

8 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

His lightsaber can be used two-handed . We see him do so in the movies. That requires the Extended hilt attachment. Otherwise it is strictly a one -handed weapon as per RAW.

Wow. Even when I disagree with people here, I try to be nice, polite or lightheartedly funny. I'm finding myself at a loss here, astounded by your runaway train of thought and the conviction you put behind it.

Because that argument is just flawed in ways I can't even begin to describe, as reading it overwhelmed me with a sudden urge to go and lie down.

Instead, I'll illustrate my point with a picture.

9 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

His lightsaber can be used two-handed . We see him do so in the movies. That requires the Extended hilt attachment. Otherwise it is strictly a one -handed weapon as per RAW.

No it does not. A standard hilt can be used 2 handed. The extended hilt is what Darth Nihl http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Nihl had.

All lightsabers grips are designed to be used one-handed OR two-handed just like most real life swords. The exception is the shoto mainly because there is no spare handle left to grip when you've already got a hand on it. An extended hilt is basically putting another hilt worth of material onto the existing hilt, which provides additional leverage in a lightsaber lock and some more reach.

2 hours ago, Daeglan said:

No it does not. A standard hilt can be used 2 handed. The extended hilt is what Darth Nihl http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Nihl had.

Thank you! Was about to mention Nihl's lightsaber as an example.

Tramp loves to try to rules lawyer in this game about narrative freedom in the star wars universe, even when he is 100%wrong in his assumptions.

Back on topic! I'd say Obi-Wan definitely used a normal illum crystal, though I'm not sure he'd have modified it. I'd make it a basic Ilum saber, with a superior weapon customization to express it having been made by a true Jedi master, and a custom grip (easy check to remove, average to adjust to a PC) and maybe one left over HP.

3 hours ago, Silim said:

Back on topic! I'd say Obi-Wan definitely used a normal illum crystal, though I'm not sure he'd have modified it. I'd make it a basic Ilum saber, with a superior weapon customization to express it having been made by a true Jedi master, and a custom grip (easy check to remove, average to adjust to a PC) and maybe one left over HP.

I think it was stated by one of the FFG developers (most likely Sam, could have been Jay, but not certain) that the EotE/AoR lightsaber (which essentially has a fully modded Ilum crystal) was meant to represent the lightsaber of a true Jedi Knight, one in tune with the Force.

We've also got instances in Nexus of Power of a Jedi Master's lightsaber that stat-wise is on par with a fully modded Ilum crystal.

And besides, it's Obi-Wan Kenobi's lightsaber, so it should offer a bit more than a basic Ilum saber with a couple of attachments.

I'm leaning: fully modded Ilum crystal lightsaber, with Superior Hilt Personalization, with one hard point remaining. That's an insane weapon. Further, carrying on with my campaign's established themes, there may be other more narrative effects related to the weapon's history.

Thank you all for the help. I'm excited to see my player physically describe swinging Obi-wan's lightsaber in combat and to think quietly to myself... "Of course he can swing a normal hilted lightsaber two-handed."

11 hours ago, Silim said:

Tramp loves to try to rules lawyer in this game about narrative freedom in the star wars universe, even when he is 100%wrong in his assumptions.

Back on topic! I'd say Obi-Wan definitely used a normal illum crystal, though I'm not sure he'd have modified it. I'd make it a basic Ilum saber, with a superior weapon customization to express it having been made by a true Jedi master, and a custom grip (easy check to remove, average to adjust to a PC) and maybe one left over HP.

Here's the thing about Tramp who I have known in real life since 2003. He is *way* over the top overly literal, and yes this is coming from me... I know that *I'm* overly literal but I've got a excuse/note from my doctor (asperger's diagnosis), but Tramp is far and away beyond that.

He'll latch onto irrelevant details at the expense of the big picture, for example he chains disparate excerpts of flavor text together and claims that his (mis)interpretation of the combination of flavor text is a *rule*. But Tramp is also very honest/genuine, I'm pretty sure that he truly believes his frequently rather fringe interpretations are actually RAW (and his misinterpretation of real life social interactions is the only correct way to view life) and doesn't see himself as (mis)interpreting anything.

Yes as you can imagine, epically misinterpreting social interactions and not being able to see the other person's point of view as a reasonable interpretation of reality can be and has been problematic to put it mildly. So maybe we could all be a little more patient/understanding with Tramp, let him down gently rather than coming down hard on him.

Beneath his more than a little crusty exterior, he's actually a very kind loyal etc person but most people, including myself at times (and i can accept blame for being insufficiently patient) lack the patience to get past his "crust".