Man, that ending tastes like diabetes and I frickin love it.

Toturi and Kaede are so cute together. They're Rokugan's newest power couple.

On 14/12/2017 at 7:28 PM, Coyote Walks said:

Interesting. Mantis Shugenja don't seem to be having this problem.

For what Kaede says, it seems the imbalance is just present in Phoenix lands, and is now spreading out, to Lion territory at least.

And not sure if I’m reading too much on this, but they do seem to imply that the Crane Tsunami was a consequence of something that the Phoenix did, like a ritual/spell gone awry.

4 minutes ago, Tabris2k said:

And not sure if I’m reading too much on this, but they do seem to imply that the Crane Tsunami was a consequence of something that the Phoenix did, like a ritual/spell gone awry.

Well, we HAVE got over twenty years of watching the Council intermittently do Really Dumb Stuff They Should Know Better Than To Even Try.... and we haven't gotten a POV from any of them yet- only Phoenix POVs so far are Kaede and Tsukune.

But given that the Council is supposed to be part of the Phoenix identity... well. I suppose if Tadaka wins his duel (which seems likely), he can be our window on the Council. It's not like old continuity Thunders are off-limit for POVs, when Kachiko, Kamoko, and Toturi have all let us inside their heads.

Now, if the Council is at fault, they're keeping an incredibly close lid on it- nothing in their conversation in Risen From the Flames indicates that they actually have a clue why things have gone wrong. Also note that that story saw Fire, not Water kami go haywire... something Kaede either isn't aware of, or deliberately kept from Ishikawa. Her time in Otosan Uchi might have insulated her from observing the worst of it.

Not sure the imbalance is so much centered on Phoenix lands as just more noticeable there, since they're crawling with shugenja, but it can't be ruled out- everyone has shugenja, but only the Phoenix seem to have noticed/had this problem thus far. The Crown Prince's flippant remarks aside, however, we really haven't seen many non-Phoenix shugenja thus far. A bit of meishodo in Curved Blades, some Mantis shugenja working without difficulty... can't recall any other shugenja who've shown up yet, actually, but I may be wrong.

18 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Not sure the imbalance is so much centered on Phoenix lands as just more noticeable there, since they're crawling with shugenja, but it can't be ruled out- everyone has shugenja, but only the Phoenix seem to have noticed/had this problem thus far. The Crown Prince's flippant remarks aside, however, we really haven't seen many non-Phoenix shugenja thus far. A bit of meishodo in Curved Blades, some Mantis shugenja working without difficulty... can't recall any other shugenja who've shown up yet, actually, but I may be wrong.

Well, if it is so bad that “the water Kami ignore all but the greatest of offerings”, I think somebody out of the Phoenix clan would already have noticed it.

Also, it’s Kaede the one who says that “It is spreading. I have felt it here already”. That “here” make it seem like it’s linked to a place.

And I think they hadn’t made the connection with the Tsunami back then in the first fiction, but are making it now. They’re not sure even now if it’s related.

But, if the imbalance started in Phoenix lands, I think it’s possible that something went bad there, but the consequences were noticed in Crane lands.

Don’t know, maybe somebody is dabbling in dark and forbidden things in Phoenix lands? Like opening some scrolls that shouldn’t be opened?

18 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

The Crown Prince's flippant remarks aside, however, we really haven't seen many non-Phoenix shugenja thus far. A bit of meishodo in Curved Blades, some Mantis shugenja working without difficulty... can't recall any other shugenja who've shown up yet, actually, but I may be wrong.

Iuchi Rimei and Kuni Heki in "To the South."

2 minutes ago, Tabris2k said:

Don’t know, maybe somebody is dabbling in dark and forbidden things in Phoenix lands? Like opening some scrolls that shouldn’t be opened?

Seems a bit early- and on the nose- for that.

Especially since it's not like Isawa hubris is limited to Black Scrolls. Who knows what might have been tried?

Or maybe it's something to do with the Void- only the Phoenix tend to really muck around with that, and in the old lore, let's not forget who Kaede's mother was- Doji Ninube. And her father became the Nameless One. If the Void and the Lying Darkness have been... let's say kitbashed in the new lore, instead of just whipping the LD out after Fu Leng's death left the setting needing a Big Bad, then a disturbance in the Void is very much a possibility. And the Void around the Phoneix going haywire would almost certainly get the kami worked up.

51 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Or maybe it's something to do with the Void- only the Phoenix tend to really muck around with that, and in the old lore, let's not forget who Kaede's mother was- Doji Ninube. And her father became the Nameless One. If the Void and the Lying Darkness have been... let's say kitbashed in the new lore, instead of just whipping the LD out after Fu Leng's death left the setting needing a Big Bad, then a disturbance in the Void is very much a possibility. And the Void around the Phoneix going haywire would almost certainly get the kami worked up.

Maybe you’re right, and the imbalance is not place located. Maybe it’s clan-located and it is only affecting Phoenix shugenjas. That’s why Kaede is feeling it in Lion lands. A kind of punishment from the Kami, perhaps?

4 minutes ago, Tabris2k said:

Maybe you’re right, and the imbalance is not place located. Maybe it’s clan-located and it is only affecting Phoenix shugenjas. That’s why Kaede is feeling it in Lion lands. A kind of punishment from the Kami, perhaps?

I could see that. Maybe someone in Phoenix lands did something bad or screwed something up, and the aftereffects caused the tsunami in Crane lands. And the water kami know this, so they've turned their backs on the Phoenix. Maybe whatever the initial incident was affected other kami as well, thus the imbalance, but didn't affect them as severely as the water kami.

And just maybe... it really is the fault of meishodo, but rather than Unicorn practitioners it was a rogue Phoenix attempting to learn the secrets of meishodo. Which could have interesting implications if something similar should happen amongst the Seppun learning from Shahai, especially if someone decides she is holding back secrets or teaching them too slowly... but now I might be writing in the wrong thread.

All of that is well and good.

So the significance of seeing new stars in the sky?

4 minutes ago, Swordbreaker said:

All of that is well and good.

So the significance of seeing new stars in the sky?

AFAIK, in Rokugan there are some shugenjas that use the stars to make divinations of the future.

Apart from that, and from the Sun, the Moon and the seven heavenly bodies that represent the fortunes, I don’t think they’re specially associated with the Kami.

They could be two giant comets in course to direct collision with Rokugan...

7 hours ago, Tabris2k said:

They could be two giant comets in course to direct collision with Rokugan...

One made of Jade, the other of Obsidian....

10 hours ago, Tabris2k said:

AFAIK, in Rokugan there are some shugenjas that use the stars to make divinations of the future.

Apart from that, and from the Sun, the Moon and the seven heavenly bodies that represent the fortunes, I don’t think they’re specially associated with the Kami.

They could be two giant comets in course to direct collision with Rokugan...

Or new children of Heaven. Maybe the Moon did managed to catch up with the Sun somehow and a new generation of Kami is about to come down on Rokugan and shake things up.

That would also explain why the Hantei dynasty no longer benefit from Heaven's favor.

In the old lore, most individual stars didn't represent entities- but they did represent shifts in the balance of the heavens.

But then, we, the readers, all know Something Is Coming...

15 hours ago, Tabris2k said:

But, if the imbalance started in Phoenix lands, I think it’s possible that something went bad there, but the consequences were noticed in Crane lands.

Maybe something to do with the backstory of the Kaito vassal family? That would tie it with bringing out old history in the Phoenix Clan Pack. Maybe the Oni got released or something. Just a thought...

SPOILER ALERT.

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So, we have an image from Isawa Tadaka, and he has the Elemental Master Trait. It seems he won the duel and is now part of the council of the Elemental Masters.

Edit: Whoops I forgot this was the lore thread

Ok, ok,......ok

Phoenix caused the Tsunami. Crane find out. The conflict expands to Lion & Phoenix vs. Crane and Unicorn.

Kakicho kills the Emperor, marries one of the heirs. (Can't decide which one) There is a power struggle. My previous mentioned war expands to a civil war. Crab pick the side that promises them resources for the wall. Scorpion will pick the side that ends up getting them blamed and thrown from power. Dragon come by to try to get everyone to chill.

Toturi wins, jealous Seppun who loves Kaede throws some shade at Toturi in all this - getting him Ronin'd. 2nd born loses, goes off mad that he should be in power. Others agree. Spider clan is born.

You think Kachiko and Daisetsu will conspire to overthrow his father and brother? Maybe that will replace the old Scorpion Coup storyline. That would be interesting. Makes the Scorpion's position way more sympathetic and you don't need any mystical swords to explain away the motive. I think I like that a lot.

4 hours ago, Shu2jack said:

Phoenix caused the Tsunami. Crane find out. The conflict expands to Lion & Phoenix vs. Crane and Unicorn.

Kakicho kills the Emperor, marries one of the heirs. (Can't decide which one) There is a power struggle. My previous mentioned war expands to a civil war. Crab pick the side that promises them resources for the wall. Scorpion will pick the side that ends up getting them blamed and thrown from power. Dragon come by to try to get everyone to chill.

Toturi wins, jealous Seppun who loves Kaede throws some shade at Toturi in all this - getting him Ronin'd. 2nd born loses, goes off mad that he should be in power. Others agree. Spider clan is born.

Ummmm, you had me wwwwaaaaayyyyyy before “Spider Clan is born.”

BTW, I sorta knew that Scorpion would eventually be blamed for something ... it’s written in the stars. ?

1 hour ago, LordBlunt said:

BTW, I sorta knew that Scorpion would eventually be blamed for something ... it’s written in the stars. ?

Is that the old stars or the new ones?

15 hours ago, HirumaShigure said:

Is that the old stars or the new ones?

I think it was just a vision from the Star of Light...for the night is dark, and full of oni.