Wood elves have a racial bonus that reads like this (see pg. 26 of the rulebook)

Nature Bond : Wood elves gain a [fortune die] bonus to combat initiative, as well as to Observation and Stealth checks while they are in woodland terrain.

There are two possible interpretations of this racial bonus, and both seem to me to be equally valid based on the syntax used:

"Wood Elves gain a [fortune die] bonus to combat initiative. Also, while they are in woodland terrain, Wood Elves gain a [fortune die] bonus to Stealth and Observation checks."

or

"While they are in woodland terrain, Wood Elves gain a [fortune die] bonus to the following actions: combat initiative, Stealth checks, and Observation checks."

In the former case, the bonus to combat initietive is not dependent upon the Wood Elf being in woodland terrain, In the latter case, the Wood Elf only gains the bonus to combat initiative while in woodland terrain.

Which interpretation do you use in your game?

The second - all their bonuses are dependent on being in woodland territory.

Venthrac said:

I use the second also. I can see giving them the initiative bonus all the time if the HE also get it (Elf racial benefit). Since they don't I interpret it as a the WE ambushing ability in the forest.

I third the second.

Although your interpretation is cleaner, the fact that the FFG writing has the entire rule as one sentence broken up by commas suggests its combined as you rewrote it.

That's interesting. I had actually taken it to mean that the Wood Elves get the initiative bonus all the time, and the other two only when they're in the forest. All three of you have gone the other way with it.

As I look more closely at the other races, however, I think that an all-the-time initiative bonus would make the Wood Elves slightly better than the Dwarfs and High Elves. If you assume the initiative bonus only works in the woods (and that's a sensible assumption, I think), then they level out a bit better.

I wood, sorry, WOULD definately say only in Woodlands. Otherwise, High Elves ought to have it too (High Elves always strike first *G*)

I agree with the above interpretations.

Also, the fact that the ability is titled "Nature Bond" says to me that it has to do with Wood Elves being most at home in their forest-realms. I imagine the bonus to initiative comes (at least in part) from their understanding of the forest and both knowing how recognize telling sights and sounds of approaching enemies and how to use the environment to catch their quarry by surprise.

Wood comments, guys. Er, GOOD comments.

Thanks!

Grammatically, I think they always get the initiative bonus. If they were all woodland-specific, it would read "combat initiative, Observation, and Stealth checks while in". At the very bare minimum it would have to read "combat initiative, as well as Observation and Stealth checks, while in".

Grammatically, you may be right BUT I think all the other explanations in the post still mean that it should only be considered when the wood elf is in an appropriate surrounding.

To make the grammer fit with the assumed intention, an addtional comma should have been added thus...

Nature Bond: Wood elves gain a [fortune die] bonus to combat initiative, as well as to Observation and Stealth checks (addtional comma here) while they are in woodland terrain.

To read:

Nature Bond: Wood elves gain a [fortune die] bonus to combat initiative, as well as to Observation and Stealth checks, while they are in woodland terrain.

pumpkin said:

Wood elves gain a [fortune die] bonus to combat initiative, as well as to Observation and Stealth checks, while they are in woodland terrain .

Meaning that elves get the bonuses only while in woodland terrain.

Wood elves gain a [fortune die] bonus to combat initiative, as well as to Observation and Stealth checks while they are in woodland terrain.

Meaning that elves always get the initiative bonus, but also the observation and stealth bonus when they are in woodland terrain.

RAW they get the initiative bonus all the time.

The wording and punctuation are not particularly ambiguous. If the designers did not intend for this to be the case, then the phrasing in the rule book is flat out incorrect, and should be errata'd.

I was about to disagree with Haggard, but on looking at it again, I agree. The wording isn't ambiguous... however, the wording is also not the most clear. As pumpkin pointed out, adding a comma after "stealth checks" changes it completely. I like FFG's stuff quite a lot, but sadly, they don't always seem to write and edit their texts with an eye toward clarity and typos are not uncommon. Granted, one fortune die is far from a game breaker, but I wouldn't mind seeing an official answer to this question.

I personally think the argument put forward that it's called Nature's bond therefore suggests that all bonuses only apply while in woodland terrain, is a strong enough argument to only apply the bonus while in woodland terrain, regardless of the RAW.

pumpkin said:

Troll feller strike having the slayer trait can be used by everyone.

Elves are naturally more nimble and they don't become more nimble when in woodland terrain and then less nimble elsewhere. They do however have an edge when it comes to observation and stealth in such areas, which makes perfect sense. That's both logical, makes sense from a lore perspective and is correct in terms of the actual sentence in the rules.

But ruling that they are are slower outside of the woods is just stretching the imagination.

Gallows said:

True... BUT i think the rule may be trying to implement the idea that Wood Elves will be more nimble than other races while in a woodland terrain, which is certainly true, and fits the fluff.

Rather than penalising all races in a woodland terrain though, except Wood elves, the designers have simply given the Wood Elves a bonus while in a Woodland terrain.

High Elves not having the combat bonus (who are surely as nimble as wood elves under normal circumstances) also backs up this interpretation.

At the end of the day, each to their own, but my group will intepret it to only apply during woodland terrain, until a FAQ comes out to the contrary.

Yep pumpkin your interpretation surely makes as much sense as mine. It's just that when I compare the wood elf racial to the dwarf racial I find the constand initiative bonus is fair. It's nothing much anyway.

But a faq comment clearing it up would be nice, although I'll keep my interpretation because I find it's pretty balanced.

I've popped a quick rules question off to the power behind the throne, so we'll see what they say.....

For those interested in an official response, he's the extremely prompt one I got from Jay on the question...

Greetings Lee -

All of the bonuses provided by a Wood Elf's Nature Bond ability – both the initiative modifier and the skill modifier – are dependent on the character being in woodland terrain.

Cheers,

Jay

Nice work pumpkin... it's good to know the official answer.

This reinforces my belief that FFG could use some better copy editors.

i don't know anything about publishing or what a copy editor does, but there is something wrong with the writing. maybe the style? in some ways the writing is fantastic. very readable and at first seems very understandable, but when I start asking myself questions about what a particular sentence actually means i am not always certain. before the first faq came out, i just kind of settled for what i thought made the most sense, but i was surprised by some of the offical rulings in the faq and now i just ignore a lot of things in the faq like non-restrictive traits in actions. it is never anything big. it is just a lot of little stuff. fx, when somebody exhausts a talent on the party card does the whole party get the benefit or just the guy who exhausted it. i think the whole party should get it, but i have no real reason for believing i am right. i assumed the wood elf nature's bond bonuses were woods dependant but i was not sure enough to say anything about it. i think we could call the rulebook ambiguous if some of the rules could be read in multiple but clear and understandable ways. i think we just have to settle for calling it occasionally unclear. maybe playing Magic, even if i haven't played in over a decade, has turned me into a hopeless rules lawyer:)

....perhaps they just could use some copy editors?!

Seriously, I find the rules are much easier to read if you look at the intent of the rule rather than the expilict wording; not always easy, though.

FFG are also pretty good at clarifying when asked to, too, so they need credit for that at least

Oh sure. And they have badass customer service. And maybe it's partially the result of my degree in English, and maybe it's partially my many years of playing board games and role-playing games, but I find myself noticing a lot of typos and unclear rules in many games, and for a long time, FFG has made very poorly written and organized rulebooks. I think they've been getting better lately and, in general, I don't find the WFRP3 texts as problematic as some games but still... there's a lot of room for improvement, IMO.

yeah, i didn't mean to seem so harsh. i think trying to go by intent is a good rule of thumb even if it is hard to guess intent sometimes. the customer service is great. when i do give in and ask questions jay does send quick and very clear replies. it might be good to compile these somewhere as an unofficial faq.