6 hours ago, Hannes Solo said:

Well the game would obviously change cause you would have a much larger pool of viable options.

Hard capping at PS9 won't change "The Game". VI is not THE Problem.

Your pool of viable options will shrink quickly as a new meta forms and diversity, once again, goes out the window.

The developers are moving this game in a direction only known to them. They've brutally nerfed Biggs and at the same time released ordnance that severely handicaps formation flying. They've included new mechanics that effectively make bombs a direct fire weapon.

WE, as in this forum, complained that missiles and torpedoes sucked, weren't effective or cost efficient, so we got failsafe, extra munitions, cheaper weapons and even kept the Target Lock with some to use as dice modifiers. WE got what WE asked for.

Bombs and mines are in the same pool of "OP" stuff. Initially harder to use, they became more effective as higher PS pilots and better platforms became available.

IMO, handicapping Pilot Skill at 9 is not THE Answer, or any answer for that matter. I'm a firm believer in the "Law of Unintended Consequences". Your fix of a hard cap on pilot skill may actually exacerbate the problem. There are too many pilots, too many pilot abilities, too many upgrades and too many ships to think that a PS cap will solve the "lack of diversity" problem we seem to be facing. Or fix the Meta. Or (insert phrase here), that players think the problem is.

Since we're not privy to the inner most thoughts of the developers all we can do is wait. And complain.

30 minutes ago, BadMotivator said:

Here is why it won't change anything.

Lists will simply change to "cram as much PS9 in the list as possible while also having a massive bid". There are a lot of ships which can get to 9, either naturally or with VI/Adaptability.

Suddenly its just a race to PS9 and everybody spams it. Now suddenly PS matters even less than it does now. You have either maximum PS, or lower PS.

As opposed to what we have now where there are pilots that can get higher than that meaning there is a spread.

Capping at 9 also devalues natural PS9 because why go for that when you can just slap VI on a 7?

Exactly. With the exception that the slight extra value of natural PS 9 is you are actually going to use your EPT slot for a different EPT.

24 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

Your pool of viable options will shrink quickly as a new meta forms and diversity, once again, goes out the window.

Ta da!!

The meta will always suck. Wanna know why?? Because it will always be a very small pool overlooking a vast ocean of possibility.

Take your wardrobe.

You have a nice closet of possibilities: pants, shorts, Star Wars t-shirts, work shirts, sneakers, dress shoes, hats, etc. etc. etc.

This is XWM the Game in all its glory.

Now, introduce the meta: date night this NYE.

Suddenly, you have 2 ties (TIEs?), a couple dinner jackets, your best pants, dress shoes, and black socks.

Sure, your could wear a t-shirt, but your date will kill you.

Next season comes along, offering a new selection of options, but guess what: the meta is still going to be all dress clothes, regardless of the new colors offered.

2 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Exactly. With the exception that the slight extra value of natural PS 9 is you are actually going to use your EPT slot for a different EPT.

Ta da!!

The meta will always suck. Wanna know why?? Because it will always be a very small pool overlooking a vast ocean of possibility.

Take your wardrobe.

You have a nice closet of possibilities: pants, shorts, Star Wars t-shirts, work shirts, sneakers, dress shoes, hats, etc. etc. etc.

This is XWM the Game in all its glory.

Now, introduce the meta: date night this NYE.

Suddenly, you have 2 ties (TIEs?), a couple dinner jackets, your best pants, dress shoes, and black socks.

Sure, your could wear a t-shirt, but your date will kill you.

Next season comes along, offering a new selection of options, but guess what: the meta is still going to be all dress clothes, regardless of the new colors offered.

A great analogy!

Based on my own limited tournament experience and looking at meta wing....Pilot Skill doesnt seem like a probem with competitive x-wing. Sure VI is used alot but there is a ton of stuff that simply doesnt care about moving last or having ships in a traditional arc. Most of the time when PS matters its in head to head matchups of equal pilot skill i guess.

Any ship without autothrusters that dies to PS9+ tends to die to just about everything else including larger firing arcs of any kind or bombs.

http://meta-wing.com/pilots

Its not like bad ships would suddenly be viable without VI. They would still be bad. Nothing would change really.

Only thing I imagine a PS9 cap would accomplish is a introduce a massive amount of bidding which seriously restricts many other upgrade choices besides the EPT and an instant return of Whisper to the competitive scene? I guess some PS7 ships would have a slightly better chance in certain games, but bids are still there to make it irrelevant and native 9s would have maybe an even bigger advantage then they do now going to 11 ( i.e Quickdraw/Vader/Poe/Fenn )

Maybe the concern is more about Alpha Strikes and Harpoons? But that is 100% not a PS specific archetype and has a little to do with VI. And again a PS cap just means those missiles will have more mods on native 9s still destroying stuff early with a bid.

I feel that @SirCormac missed a meme opportunity:

Other than flying PS11 with a bid, what are the best ways to deal with PS11 alpha strike?

12 minutes ago, RunnerAZ said:

Other than flying PS11 with a bid, what are the best ways to deal with PS11 alpha strike?

Hate to answer with a question. But what do you currently fly thats struggling against Alpha Strikes?

Assaj, wookies, counter measures, jyn erso, auothrusters, range control, expert handling, jam tokens, coordinate actions, regen, draw their fire, selflessness, ps11 black one, stress, kanan, lots of hp, 3+ ships, ( alphas are like ISTDs and love 2 ship low green dice turrets), etc.

Also an important thing to remember. Most high ps alpha strike ships are extremely vulnerable on defense since they tend to spend all their actions on offense and can be regularly swept off the table the same round they shot you. The trade off is typically high PS alphas have invested 30+ pts in a ship that cant protect itself and risks MOV early.

3 minutes ago, RunnerAZ said:

Other than flying PS11 with a bid, what are the best ways to deal with PS11 alpha strike?

1. High Hull and Shields

2. Eat it and Regen

3. Arc Dodge and don't get shot.

4. Deny active range for the ordnance being used.

4 minutes ago, RunnerAZ said:

Other than flying PS11 with a bid, what are the best ways to deal with PS11 alpha strike?

Force them to break formation, don't give them opportunity to attack the same target, use some blocking ships to deny them opportunity to get TL. Use ships that have good defense or use some ships that can mitigate damage caused to friendly ships (Lowhhrick, Draw Their Fire).

I see it like this:

If PS were capped at 9, we now have a game with a BIG IMPACT 'Aces Round' at PS 9. @BadMotivator said it correctly, there will be a big spamming of 9s- but consider the benefits:

1.) Getting PS killed is pretty un-fun. PS9 cap allows you to tie PS much more often, with more pilots, and gives you a shot at initiative if you want it with the bid. This to me is much more interesting than just disregarding most pilots because they get PS destroyed by PS10 Nym. It also allows for a lot more Simultaneous Attacks in the PS9 round, and I would argue more players rolling more dice and more explosions is more fun. Nothing's less fun than "I shoot you with my PS11 and remove your ship, you don't get to do anything with it now." We get more "OMG Vader killed Poe, but Poe gets his revenge shot. OMG HE KILLED VADER TOO!!!!!!!" Basically, if PS is capped at 9, more players and ships get to participate in the 9 'Aces Round'.

2.) Currently, 'the best pilots in the Galaxy(tm)', don't really enjoy much benefit of being 'the best'. With PS capped at 9, all natural 9 pilots get the benefit of EPTs that really show off their power. Vader, Soontir, Fenn Rau, Poe, etc, become much more interesting, more dangerous, and flexible to build (I'm really tired of only ever seeing VI Vader).

3.) A bunch of pilots in the 7-8 PS realm become more viable instantly. Whisper, Turr Phennir, Backdraft, Corran Horn, Thcho Celchu, etc- the pool of Aces opens WAY up. I would argue that Aces represent one of the most cherished aspects of this game, any change which helps more of the 'elite' pilots see more play would be welcome.

4.) Building a list that gets to choose initiative consistently requires sacrifice in total list points. I'm OK with that, players really have to think about if they want to decide initiative and why- different strategies require different planning in your bid. A list that consistently gets to choose initiative gets a big advantage- but in a world with PS capped at 9, that list is likely at an 8-9 point bid disadvantage as compared to a list that just abandoned the bid in favor of more points on the field. It evens out.

TL;DR BIGGEST ADVANTAGE: MORE SIMULTANEOUS ATTACKS, MORE PLAYERS PLAYING THE GAME, FEWER INSTANCES OF BEING PS KILLED, PS9 ACES ROUND BECOMES A FUBAR FUN ROUND WITH LARGER DIVERSITY OF ACE PILOTS AVAILABLE. Also, **** Nym and whoever designed him.

25 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Hate to answer with a question. But what do you currently fly thats struggling against Alpha Strikes?

Assaj, wookies, counter measures, jyn erso, auothrusters, range control, expert handling, jam tokens, coordinate actions, regen, draw their fire, selflessness, ps11 black one, stress, kanan, lots of hp, 3+ ships, ( alphas are like ISTDs and love 2 ship low green dice turrets), etc.

Also an important thing to remember. Most high ps alpha strike ships are extremely vulnerable on defense since they tend to spend all their actions on offense and can be regularly swept off the table the same round they shot you. The trade off is typically high PS alphas have invested 30+ pts in a ship that cant protect itself and risks MOV early.

I am flying Ego Mark 3, but with PS11 Fenn and the extra points going into C3P0 and Tactician on Lowhrick. It's good but I worry about Miranda getting pretty banged up.

Oh look another Nerf Herding post by some laser brained bantha fodder.

Nerf You,

go play Imperial Assault or any other game without stat based initiative.

48 minutes ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

TL;DR BIGGEST ADVANTAGE: MORE SIMULTANEOUS ATTACKS, MORE PLAYERS PLAYING THE GAME, FEWER INSTANCES OF BEING PS KILLED, PS9 ACES ROUND BECOMES A FUBAR FUN ROUND WITH LARGER DIVERSITY OF ACE PILOTS AVAILABLE. Also, **** Nym and whoever designed him.

Well, then let's dumb the game down to no PS at all since PS9MUTUALFUBAR is the best round ever.

Seems to me another attempt to redesign the entire game around 1 pilot that has got tournament players annoyed this week.

And once they have ruined the game by nerfing VI, there will be another annoying pilot next week that needs the entire game changed to make it fun again because so-and-so-is-my-NPE.

Cap VI and Adaptability to a max of PS9 and the meta opens up some. Pilots already at 9 but are just out of viability due to needing cards like Push The Limit instead of VI suddenly become viable. PS 7 and 8 pilots increase their role in the game, mostly from running VI or adaptability though.

An unfortunate side effect would be a very strong PS9 meta, where being under PS9 would be a significant disadvantage even more so than now. This will be because many of the highest PS pilots will be running powerful elite talent upgrades, where right now the highest PS pilots are not. A PS8 Rey for example may actually have a tougher time in a PS9 meta than a PS10+ meta, since she will still be moving before the highest PS still and probably will be taking more damage from Expertise or Predator than if the opponent was PS10/11.

25 minutes ago, Joe Censored said:

An unfortunate side effect would be a very strong PS9 meta,

This. You don't fix the game, you just change what's "broken." Personally, I'd rather see a PS9-10-11 game than a PS9 cluster-fudge.

3 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

And the format. If they only goal is "kill them all" then the only thing that matters is "shoot first, die last."

That's an excellent point.

1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well, then let's dumb the game down to no PS at all since PS9MUTUALFUBAR is the best round ever.

Seems to me another attempt to redesign the entire game around 1 pilot that has got tournament players annoyed this week.

And once they have ruined the game by nerfing VI, there will be another annoying pilot next week that needs the entire game changed to make it fun again because so-and-so-is-my-NPE.

Did you see the list I posted with half a dozen key pilots in it?

No

Here it is again

Poe (both versions)
RAC
QD
Vader
Nym (both versions, though rebel moreso)
Probably Fenn Rau (rebel) but that remains to be seen

And slightly less problematic
Inquisitor
Torani
Talonbane

Nym epitomises the problem, but isn't the whole of the problem.

16 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Did you see the list I posted with half a dozen key pilots in it?

No

Here it is again

Poe (both versions)
RAC
QD
Vader
Nym (both versions, though rebel moreso)
Probably Fenn Rau (rebel) but that remains to be seen

And slightly less problematic
Inquisitor
Torani
Talonbane

Nym epitomises the problem, but isn't the whole of the problem.

Well, I wasn't responding to your post, so no, I didn't remember it.

Change "1" to "a few." Or change "1 pilot" to "1 game element."

But I still stand by the argument that nerfing VI/PS capping only changes the flavor of the problem, not the problem (PS race) itself.

2 hours ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

I see it like this:

If PS were capped at 9, we now have a game with a BIG IMPACT 'Aces Round' at PS 9. @BadMotivator said it correctly, there will be a big spamming of 9s- but consider the benefits:

1.) Getting PS killed is pretty un-fun. PS9 cap allows you to tie PS much more often, with more pilots, and gives you a shot at initiative if you want it with the bid. This to me is much more interesting than just disregarding most pilots because they get PS destroyed by PS10 Nym. It also allows for a lot more Simultaneous Attacks in the PS9 round, and I would argue more players rolling more dice and more explosions is more fun. Nothing's less fun than "I shoot you with my PS11 and remove your ship, you don't get to do anything with it now." We get more "OMG Vader killed Poe, but Poe gets his revenge shot. OMG HE KILLED VADER TOO!!!!!!!" Basically, if PS is capped at 9, more players and ships get to participate in the 9 'Aces Round'.

2.) Currently, 'the best pilots in the Galaxy(tm)', don't really enjoy much benefit of being 'the best'. With PS capped at 9, all natural 9 pilots get the benefit of EPTs that really show off their power. Vader, Soontir, Fenn Rau, Poe, etc, become much more interesting, more dangerous, and flexible to build (I'm really tired of only ever seeing VI Vader).

3.) A bunch of pilots in the 7-8 PS realm become more viable instantly. Whisper, Turr Phennir, Backdraft, Corran Horn, Thcho Celchu, etc- the pool of Aces opens WAY up. I would argue that Aces represent one of the most cherished aspects of this game, any change which helps more of the 'elite' pilots see more play would be welcome.

4.) Building a list that gets to choose initiative consistently requires sacrifice in total list points. I'm OK with that, players really have to think about if they want to decide initiative and why- different strategies require different planning in your bid. A list that consistently gets to choose initiative gets a big advantage- but in a world with PS capped at 9, that list is likely at an 8-9 point bid disadvantage as compared to a list that just abandoned the bid in favor of more points on the field. It evens out.

TL;DR BIGGEST ADVANTAGE: MORE SIMULTANEOUS ATTACKS, MORE PLAYERS PLAYING THE GAME, FEWER INSTANCES OF BEING PS KILLED, PS9 ACES ROUND BECOMES A FUBAR FUN ROUND WITH LARGER DIVERSITY OF ACE PILOTS AVAILABLE. Also, **** Nym and whoever designed him.

This is my viewpoint as well, overall I think there are far more benefits than disadvantageous to instituting a ps cap

VI does have a hard counter, just don't play PS9 lists. Then all your VI opponents wasted 1 point and an EPT slot on an upgrade that does nothing.