2 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

Thats basically using the force to enhance skills he already had some form of (flying and shooting stuff). Pretty sure Rey hadn't spent her free time telekinetically lifting rocks on Jakku

Hours after he first holds a lightsaber he's blocking laser blasts blind.

And making a proton torpedo turn 90 degrees without a targeting computer and fly directly down to the core is nothing like shooting a laser blast. Pointing the ship at his target and pulling the trigger are where the similarities end. Those also can be done without the force.

Expertly guiding ordnance the very first time you've ever fired said ordnance is just as ridiculous as anything Rey can do.

The only difference is 40 years of accepting that that's what happens until it no longer seems ridiculous.

9 minutes ago, Sekac said:

Hours after he first holds a lightsaber he's blocking laser blasts blind.

And making a proton torpedo turn 90 degrees without a targeting computer and fly directly down to the core is nothing like shooting a laser blast. Pointing the ship at his target and pulling the trigger are where the similarities end. Those also can be done without the force.

Expertly guiding ordnance the very first time you've ever fired said ordnance is just as ridiculous as anything Rey can do.

The only difference is 40 years of accepting that that's what happens until it no longer seems ridiculous.

What are you doing!? You're making sense! Stop that! Everything ever is bad, haven't you heard!?

52 minutes ago, Underachiever599 said:

why Yoda believes Rey is basically already a Jedi?

Because, she has everything she needs to know, she acquired all the knowledge which makes the core of the jedi order. She has all of it … in her bag on the millennium falcon. Doh.

BTW, Anakin might have been "made of the force!", but I am made literally out of the energy of the big bang, the force is a galactic wide energy field, meanwhile the big bang includes all of the universe, billions of times more power. So it is no wonder that in a lightsaber fight I would win … no seriously, I would win in 10 seconds flat, have you seen Revenge of the Sith and Anakin's lightsaber technique?

Pfft I'm so powerful I win before the fight even starts by the time you've drawn a i'm already in the hot tub listening to jizz with my twi'lek slave girls.

2 minutes ago, Hobojebus said:

Pfft I'm so powerful I win before the fight even starts by the time you've drawn a i'm already in the hot tub listening to jizz with my twi'lek slave girls.

Pics or it didn't happen

38 minutes ago, Sekac said:

Hours after he first holds a lightsaber he's blocking laser blasts blind.

After failing a couple times first, and with Obi-wan walking him through it. He didn't just pick up the lightsaber when obi-wan handed it to him, then start blocking blaster bolts being shot at him by stormtroopers.

38 minutes ago, Sekac said:

And making a proton torpedo turn 90 degrees without a targeting computer and fly directly down to the core is nothing like shooting a laser blast. Pointing the ship at his target and pulling the trigger are where the similarities end. Those also can be done without the force.

Expertly guiding ordnance the very first time you've ever fired said ordnance is just as ridiculous as anything Rey can do.

Assumin the force is what made them turn perhaps.

27 minutes ago, Hobojebus said:

Pfft I'm so powerful I win before the fight even starts by the time you've drawn a i'm already in the hot tub listening to jizz with my twi'lek slave girls.

No wonder, you are made out of pure nerdium
edit:
Well ok, and sodium.

19 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

After failing a couple times first, and with Obi-wan walking him through it. He didn't just pick up the lightsaber when obi-wan handed it to him, then start blocking blaster bolts being shot at him by stormtroopers.

Odd, isn't this similar to what Luke does with Rey? Making her feel the force around her, the energy of this strong force vergence, connecting to it, using it's power … and having her fail immedeal as she draws from the dark side vergence as well and nearly destroys the island that way?

1 minute ago, SEApocalypse said:

Odd, isn't this similar to what Luke does with Rey? Making her feel the force around her, the energy of this strong force vergence, connecting to it, using it's power … and having her fail immedeal as she draws from the dark side vergence as well and nearly destroys the island that way?

Which explains...none of what rey did in the first movie. Additionally, Obi-wan was telling him to do so in a specific circumstance, where it could easily be implied that wasn't the only bit of training obi-wan gave him on the falcon (though I'm not saying there actually WAS more). Rey did mind-trick and telekinesis in the first movie without even that much. Then she got the 1 "lesson" from luke about stretching out with her feelings to feel the force, but nothing about how to do anything with it. And she didn't even "fail". she was totally successful at touching the force and making stuff happen around her, even if she was drawn to the dark side part of the island. That was the OPPOSITE of failure. She totally used the force, just...not in a way Luke liked.

Also, by the time Empire takes place where luke (barely) managed to pull his lightsaber to himself after several attempts, it'd be 3 years since the events of A New Hope, so he'd have had plenty of time to practice the little bit he HAD gotten from Obi-wan and see what he could manage to do with the force.

Rey had literally no time between TFA and TLJ to assimilate the fact that she could use the force and practice.

29 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Which explains...none of what rey did in the first movie. Additionally, Obi-wan was telling him to do so in a specific circumstance, where it could easily be implied that wasn't the only bit of training obi-wan gave him on the falcon (though I'm not saying there actually WAS more). Rey did mind-trick and telekinesis in the first movie without even that much. Then she got the 1 "lesson" from luke about stretching out with her feelings to feel the force, but nothing about how to do anything with it. And she didn't even "fail". she was totally successful at touching the force and making stuff happen around her, even if she was drawn to the dark side part of the island. That was the OPPOSITE of failure. She totally used the force, just...not in a way Luke liked.

Rey learned mind-trick directly from Kylo in that ****** up mind **** scene. Besides, I am not going to defend the first movie. I think that TFA had been garbage
But can we ignore **** in the first one and just accept the stuff from it has established facts when dealing with the second? Because poor Rian Johnson had to as well. ;-)

edit: And btw after her "failure" Luke immediately comment how scary she is for him, because her raw power surpasses anything outside of Kylo Ren that he ever had experienced. This includes his own and all the other students he had. I give him that he never experienced the full raw power of either Vader or Palp, because neither of them went all out against him.

Now speaking of that raw power, luke immediately got some smaller force manipulations as well, and Rey now ... well she certainly had no control either when she started to rip the Island appeart. ;-)
But she certainly had one thing over Luke, she did believe. Rey believes, just like the babies in "Children of the Force" or Broom Kid. She is even more naive than Luke was. And much, much more self-centred.

And btw, you act like the size of the objects she is moving actually matters. ;-)

Who I was hoping they would find at Canto Bight.

Who I was hoping they would find at Canto Bight.

Darkness Rises, and Light to Meet It.

I think it's immediately obvious that this movie was either amazing or terrible, and anyone who thinks this wasn't either a) the exact perfect thing Star Wars needed or b) something that has traveled back in time and retroactively ruined a bunch of movies from the 70s and 80s is a fool. Also, it's very clear that everything in the movie was either a rehash (Swords? C'mon. Obvious rip-off of movies with swords. And the battle at the end was an obvious rip-off of climactic moments in 'epic' movies.) or was too far off-base and too different to be Star Wars at all. WAKE UP, SHEEPLE.

4 hours ago, Shadow345 said:

Ahahahaha, that's awesome!

Little makes me more irrationality angry than people getting the meaning of Mary Sue wrong on the internet.

On 19.12.2017 at 2:17 PM, Magnus Grendel said:

Phantom energy was a state of dark energy. When the Starkiller Base superweapon released the quintessence it had collected within its core, it was transformed into phantom energy, which would follow the line of egress that had been provided by the weapon's technicians according to planetary rotation, inclination, etc, through a hole in "sub-hyperspace", until it was intercepted by an object of sufficient mass. When the beam of phantom energy interacted with a planet, it ignited its core, creating a pocket nova (A pocket nova was a phenomenon known to astrophysicists that occurred when a planetary core was ignited by an outside force, resulting in the formation of a star).

Large amounts of phantom energy could create temporary rips in sub-hyperspace, which allowed the Hosnian Catacylsm in 34 ABY to become visible from across the galaxy as it happened.

I am not sure if that is an desperate cover up for something which does not really need explanation and should be just ignored because it was a visual clue for the audience and nothing else OR if this is downright trolling against JJ.

Either way it is painful and hilarious at the same time.

1 hour ago, __underscore__ said:

Little makes me more irrationality angry than people getting the meaning of Mary Sue wrong on the internet.

Mary Sue definition from Wikipedia: A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character. They can usually perform better at tasks than should be possible given the amount of training or experience.

TV Tropes: The prototypical Mary Sue is an original female character in a fanfic who obviously serves as an idealized version of the author mainly for the purpose of Wish Fulfillment. She's exotically beautiful, often having an unusual hair or eye color, and has a similarly cool and exotic name. She's exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas, and may possess skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting. She also lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws — either that or her "flaws" are obviously meant to be endearing.

Urban Dictionary: The Mary Sue character is almost always beautiful, smart, etc... In short, she is the "perfect" girl. The Mary Sue usually falls in love with the author's favorite character(s) and winds up upstaging all of the other characters in the book/series/universe.

I'd say each of these describe Rey pretty accurately. Keep in mind, there is no real definition of what a Mary Sue is, as it's a fairly loose term. But it's typically a character who is far better at far too many things than they have any right to be within the established lore. They have little to no flaws, there are almost never any repercussions for their actions, they succeed at everything on their first try, they outdo every other character. Sounding familiar yet?

Luke, Anakin and Ezra have all been established as immensely powerful in the lore. They all took several years of training to be able to move a few things with their minds, use the mind trick, and to be able to fight competently with a lightsaber. Rey could do all of that the day she discovered the Force was real, without any training whatsoever. That alone makes her a Mary Sue in The Force Awakens. Luke, Anakin, and Ezra have all been shown repeatedly failing as they developed as characters. Name one time Rey has actually failed at something she tried to do. The closest she got to failure was trying to turn Kylo Ren back to the light side, but even that 'failure' ended with Snoke dead, and with absolutely no negative repercussions for her aside from a small cut on her arm.

Impressive. All these explanations are wrong. The key point that defines a mary sue is that it is the idealized perfect version of the author inserting himself into the story. Everything else like being OP, flat, annoying, knowing all the fan favorites, etc is derived from the fact that a mary sue is a stand-in for the author himself.

Now unless you want to imply that The Force Awaken is basically just a piece of crappy fanfiction AND JJ Abrams stand-in into the star wars universe is a young woman who wants to know literally who her daddy is (gross JJ, gross ;--) … Rey can not be a Mary Sue no matter how ridiculous her character development. Now Fandom has misused the term for so long that even the wikipedia definition is literally wrong. But that does not change the fact that I gonna literally rage until the end of time until people get what a mary sue meant to describe. (Bonus point for whoever literally recognize this literal reference) ;-)


Disclaimer: I missed my sleep today, so I might be not making any sense.

19 minutes ago, Underachiever599 said:

Mary Sue definition from Wikipedia: A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character. They can usually perform better at tasks than should be possible given the amount of training or experience.

TV Tropes: The prototypical Mary Sue is an original female character in a fanfic who obviously serves as an idealized version of the author mainly for the purpose of Wish Fulfillment. She's exotically beautiful, often having an unusual hair or eye color, and has a similarly cool and exotic name. She's exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas, and may possess skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting. She also lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws — either that or her "flaws" are obviously meant to be endearing.

Urban Dictionary: The Mary Sue character is almost always beautiful, smart, etc... In short, she is the "perfect" girl. The Mary Sue usually falls in love with the author's favorite character(s) and winds up upstaging all of the other characters in the book/series/universe.

When both Wikipedia and Urban Dictionary betray you, you know that things are bad. You even highlighted the wrong half of the TV Tropes definition!

Now I do get with the whole 'language is defined by use and not definition' thing but I can think of three objective and clear exceptions:

- Addicting

- Could care less

- Mary Sue

These days the only real use for Mary Sue is a way to spot the redpill tosspots. It's a blight against humanity, a sign of the moral degradation of our culture and, if you use it in this way, I hate you. And your mother. And one of your pets.

27 minutes ago, __underscore__ said:

- Could care less

I work with an American guy who constantly says this. It's infuriating, because it makes no sense. He also constantly interchanges literally and figuratively.

I hate people that say irrigardless its moronic, its a double negative you plebs.

I also enjoy making people that say things like "its more better" cry.

Needless to say playing games while on discord with my European mates is always a laugh.

11 hours ago, Forresto said:

After I initially wrote this I came across an article that I entirely agree with, especially in terms of what Rian Johnson had to work with what JJ left him.

The Force Belongs to Us: The Last Jedi's Beautiful Refocusing of Star Wars

I find myself in general agreement with Colin Trevorrow's reply to the article. FYI: originally he was going to direct episode IX (he's now a co-writer) and he was reportedly on the same page with Hamill on Luke's character.

Quote

I think this was just a dreadful time, and it’s a shame because I was genuinely excited to see someone like Rian Johnson given free reign – “Finally,” I thought, “A real film-maker at the helm.” However, I left utterly baffled at the creative decisions made every step along the way here. There’s a lot of things I agree with in theory, but were bungled in execution. (Spoilers ahead)

Having Rey be just some person, and not just another in a long line of Skywalkers/Kenobis/etc.? Great idea! But… it completely flies in the face of everything we were shown before. So all her phenomenal force powers and whatever-the-plot-demands skills come from nowhere then? She’s the all powerful chosen one… just because? This is made even worse when Snoke says that she’s the Light Side “equal and opposite” of Kylo Ren… so great, she’s the pure and incorruptible champion of the Light side now, too. All that teasing that she may be tempted by the Dark Side, driven by a well-intentioned need for power to save her friends, is out the window and I guess never mattered at all.

And killing Snoke! I hated Snoke and thought he was a stupid, cliche plot device only good for his relationship to Kylo and Hux… but killing him off with no explanation is equally as bone-headed a move. You’ve introduced this character who is critically important to everything happening, who helped turn Kylo Ren, who somehow had the resources and wherewithal to support a splinter group of the Galactic Empire that’s apparently as rich and powerful as the Galactic Empire, and then you just get rid of him without any explanation? What did he even WANT (besides just “power”)? It was a decision that felt like it wanted to be “clever” but instead just flippantly undermined any sort of backstory or consistency in this new trilogy. (I will say, it was almost comical to hear Snoke prattle on about Kylo Ren lacking conflict while the camera kept cutting back to Adam Driver’s goofy, L.A. Noire-esque conflicted expressions.)

Then there’s Holdo. Sure, Poe’s a brash, stubborn fly-boy (though really you could blame the destruction of those bombers on the idiotic pilots who thought it’d be a good idea to line up so close). However, there is no reason for Holdo not to tell him her plan; EVERYONE should have been told the plan. There’s only 400 rebels left (apparently), and they’re all basically huddled together on the same ship. Even if she can’t go into detail (despite the film giving us no indication that there is any concern of spies onboard), she makes no effort to at least convince Poe that there’s a plan in motion, and instead acts in a way that only gives the opposite impression. Boy, is she lucky that Poe was kind enough not to shoot her ******* dead as part of his mutiny – that would’ve been awkward!

I found Rose to be insufferable. I don’t blame the actress, I don’t think she was given a lot to work with, and in total fairness I didn’t care much for Finn in this movie either, which is a shame as I thought he was one of the highpoints of TFA. Their entire sideplot is interminable, and the Casino planet/war-profiteering storyline is so absurdly on the nose it just adds salt to the wound. I love how Finn and Rose put the entire Rebellion in jeopardy because they can’t be bothered to find a proper parking spot. The kids were almost prequel-esque and while I’m all for this idea of heroes finding hope and coming from anywhere, it was presented in a very ham-handed manner.

The Leia moment was an unbelievable, shark-jumping misfire. That’s all I have to say about that.

I also just don’t understand the sense of scale to these new movies. The First Order seems incredibly inconsistent – it’s built from the remnants of the Empire but it is also as powerful and as expansive as it needs to be at any given moment. It doesn’t feel like a credible threat. The idea that there are all of a sudden only 400 or so members of the stupidly named Resistance left at the beginning of the film seems absurd, especially given that there must be a Republic military left in some capacity (are we seriously to believe that the ENTIRE Republic military was park on four or five planets all in the same orbit?). We have no sense of scale for this conflict, or any sense of scale the movie tries to establish seems so silly that it breaks suspension of disbelief.

Finally, the attempts at humors in this movie were grating and obnoxious. This is entirely personal and subjective, but they felt completely out of place, and for every sensible chuckle, there were 10 groaners that took me right out of the picture. A little levity is good, and I don’t outright hate the Marvel formula, but this went to an unbearable extreme.

I thought that Mark Hammill gave a really good performance, and I like the idea of a Luke Skywalker who’s embittered and who has made mistakes, but I think the film takes it to such an extreme that he doesn’t seem like the Luke Skywalker who would put his life and the lives of his friends on the line to try and redeem his father. Making a movie about failure is admirable, but I’m not going to give it a pass just for that when we have to rely on a total “idiot plot” to try and get there. Worse, I think a lot of characters got the shaft in the pursuit of that theme; all of the characters seem less interesting at the end of TLJ (Kylo Ren as Supreme Leader, Hux as a sniveling cartoon, Finn as… someone who’s just there, etc.). I’m trying not to lose sight of the forest for the trees here, but The Last Jedi is so poorly constructed that it overshadows any of the good ideas or intentions on display. I expected finesse and subtlety from someone like Rian Johnson, but it was sorely missing. If this represents Disney’s plans for Star Wars going forward, then the emperor really has no clothes.

1 hour ago, SEApocalypse said:

Disclaimer: I missed my sleep today, so I might be not making any sense.

Don't worry about it @SEApocalypse, you don't make a great deal of sense at the best of times!