I'll rather do my meta thread on the vassal league. I've never shown it on the forum here, and I think that's way more constructive and interesting

9 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I got to number three, but I think I'm wasting my time

I am not suprised :P. Maybe the movie has some problems ey?

1 hour ago, Otacon said:

I feel like you've got a word wrong in here, did you mean decrease instead of increase? If so I'm not sure where you're getting your information. This box office analysis seems to say ticket sales increased through the weekend. It also includes audience polling data further down that seems to suggest the poor reception is mainly from a very vocal minority.

Regardless, as I said before I enjoyed it and that's all that really matters to me.

Why would you jump to the assumption that the polling data going down indicates poor reception from a vocal minority? Do you say that purely to justify your stance? People who thought the movie was bad were all just a bunch of trolls, and they don't matter? The "vocal minority" have no reason to rate the film more poorly at the end of the weekend than at the beginning.

Just now, jocke01 said:

I am not suprised :P. Maybe the movie has some problems ey?

That's not it (even though he has them). But I couldn't make it sound tone-neutral. Also due to the sarcastic nature it's not always clear what exactly your point is. E.g. the physics: Star Wars was always messy with it, last for example in Rogue One. Were you always bothered? And if not, which part was too much now?

Or Admiral Ackbar: does it matter to you that his voice actor died and it might have felt disrespectful to give him a new one?
Or Snoke: was your problem really that he was in a throne room or rather the lack of background?

And so on.

Here's a graph showing win percentage of pilots that played at least 20 games from 955 games where both lists were entered.

Much better, isn't it?

On the bright side, I can't wait for Auralnauts take on The Last Jedi...

I thought it was fantastic, non top action, great scenes... only one character got on my nerves... but I could live with it. Sadly I knew they would get rid of Luke, but I'm sure he'll be back as a Force ghost.

Overall I was totally entertained. looking forward to the next one!

Solid 9/10

6 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

That's not it (even though he has them). But I couldn't make it sound tone-neutral. Also due to the sarcastic nature it's not always clear what exactly your point is. E.g. the physics: Star Wars was always messy with it, last for example in Rogue One. Were you always bothered? And if not, which part was too much now?

Or Admiral Ackbar: does it matter to you that his voice actor died and it might have felt disrespectful to give him a new one?
Or Snoke: was your problem really that he was in a throne room or rather the lack of background?

And so on.

The ww2 bombers, "cloaking fields", arcing laser fire, hyperspace ramming. The hammerhead ram was a bit cheesy but not unbelivable and that was the only one I remember that was weird in rouge one.

Ackbar, not really a big one, but it bothers me that they bring him back just to die. While any new characters dies as well. We need characters to care about.

Snoke: Well the throne room again, the lack of background, purpose and so so much.

Either way, this movie pretty much killed star wars for me. What was the point of the original trilogy??

Our main characters are dead (RIP Carrie Fisher and Leia in next movie). The republic that was founded after ROTJ is a disaster and the grand civil war and it's consequenses seems to not affect the galaxy outside the hosian system at all. So all the sacrifice of the rebellion all the drama and action of the original trilogy ends with 30 resistance guys in the falcon against a new galactic empire called the first order that never really left the galaxy funded by a dark force user we have NO CLUES about where and how he came to power of a grand empire sized army. I don't get how this trilogy and the orignial trilogy is connecting without making the stories in OT completly pointless. I'm glad you liked it, but for me the entire Disney star wars canon just killed star wars for me and I'm sad.

1 minute ago, jocke01 said:

So all the sacrifice of the rebellion all the drama and action of the original trilogy ends with 30 resistance guys in the falcon against a new galactic empire called the first order that never really left the galaxy funded by a dark force user we have NO CLUES about where and how he came to power of a grand empire sized army

Do you believe that the First Order would not have risen without Snoke? If no then his background does not matter that much for the point you rise here (even though I'm personally very annoyed by the lack of background)

2 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Do you believe that the First Order would not have risen without Snoke? If no then his background does not matter that much for the point you rise here (even though I'm personally very annoyed by the lack of background)

I don't see a galactic conquering sized fleet with thousends or millions of loyal soldiers could spring up after the ending of ROTJ without ANYONE except Leia and 20 x wing pilots doing something about it. That is just me though, I guess I thought that ROTJ was the end and the rebellion won, looks like I was completly wrong

It seems that the galaxy actually likes dark evil overlords and galactic empires. If anything the resistance are the bad guys and I root for Kylo and the first order in the next movie, I hope they kill rey, poe, rose and all the other terrorist that are murdering innocent working people that are just trying to establish order. Fascism is the good guy in Disneys star wars universe.

17 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

On the bright side, I can't wait for Auralnauts take on The Last Jedi...

They're going to be very bummed that Kylo destroys his mask; they'll be much more limited in their redubbing of Kylo now.

1 minute ago, jocke01 said:

I don't see a galactic conquering sized fleet with thousends or millions of loyal soldiers could spring up after the ending of ROTJ without ANYONE except Leia and 20 x wing pilots doing something about it. That is just me though, I guess I thought that ROTJ was the end and the rebellion won, looks like I was completly wrong

It seems that the galaxy actually likes dark evil overlords and galactic empires. If anything the resistance are the bad guys and I root for Kylo and the first order in the next movie, I hope they kill rey, poe, rose and all the other terrorist that are murdering innocent working people that are just trying to establish order. Fascism is the good guy in Disneys star wars universe.

A rebellion doesn't just "win". Rebuilding a former dictatorship, full of corruption, into a functioning democracy is extremely difficult. We have enough real-life examples, and they are not galaxy wide.

I understand why they shy away from politics though. It went horribly wrong in the prequels, but now we're demanding more of it somehow?

That's probably why the rise of the first order is covered in part by some books. I really liked the character of Admiral Rae Sloane who took control of the Empire right after Endor. One thing stands out: there is a lot of scheming and political dispute after the empire fell. On both sides!

Talking about Kylo Ren's mask, I do find it somewhat ironic in that the movie where he decides to stop his hero worship of Darth Vader and destroy the past, he finally actually achieves what Vader sought:

He destroys his evil master, takes over his armies and marches on to take over the galaxy himself, something Anakin was contemplating since Mustafar but never achieved. Well, except tossing Papa Palp over the edge of the OSHA pit. But that cost him his life.

Just now, GreenDragoon said:

A rebellion doesn't just "win". Rebuilding a former dictatorship, full of corruption, into a functioning democracy is extremely difficult. We have enough real-life examples, and they are not galaxy wide.

I understand why they shy away from politics though. It went horribly wrong in the prequels, but now we're demanding more of it somehow?

That's probably why the rise of the first order is covered in part by some books. I really liked the character of Admiral Rae Sloane who took control of the Empire right after Endor. One thing stands out: there is a lot of scheming and political dispute after the empire fell. On both sides!

I'm just sad that the entire OT's plot is pointless thanks to what we learn in tfa and tlj. Watching these in cannon makes it all seem pointless.

2 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

A rebellion doesn't just "win". Rebuilding a former dictatorship, full of corruption, into a functioning democracy is extremely difficult. We have enough real-life examples, and they are not galaxy wide.

Of course they just "win"!

Just now, kris40k said:

Of course they just "win"!

hey now, don't make fun of the OT, that's perfect! /s

2 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

It's like lending your friend your car, but when they bring it back it's got an empty tank of gas. Oh, and they smashed it up when they ran a red light and t-boned an elderly woman's car and crushed a few pedestrians and fled the scene.

Rian Johnson already signed a deal for a new trilogy, which gives him control over 4 star wars films, while JJ got the reboot starter and some yet to see closing of the first new generation trilogy. Basically, JJ bought an old Corvette C3 from 1977, gave it a new paint job and resold it afterwards. And Johnson bought the car, the first thing that has to go is this ugly new paint job from JJ. Under that new paint job comes forward some rust on an otherwise solid frame and Johnson starts restoring this classic right away by deconstructing and rebuilding the whole car. Meanwhile JJ has still to do some repairs, because part of the contract was that the car needs to pass the MOT test and unfortunately while doing that paint job himself, he screwed something up. ;-)

And I am aware that a german proverb says nothing is more useless than a car parable. I still could not resist.

16 minutes ago, jocke01 said:

What was the point of the original trilogy??

Our main characters are dead (RIP Carrie Fisher and Leia in next movie).

Or, what is the point of this one.

I mean, my understanding was that JJ Abrams took on this project to explore the ideas of "what happened to Luke?"

Luke was AWOL for the entire first movie. In this one, he's a crabby old fisherman telling Rey to "get off my lawn." Then he does a bit of Force-walking to reprimand his unruly ex-pupil which makes him so tired he dies.

THIS IS WHY HE DECIDED HE NEEDED TO MAKE THE FOLLOW UP TRILOGY??

Can we please please please please go back to the EU and have Thrawn, Mara, Lando, Luke, Han, and Leia??

8 minutes ago, jocke01 said:

I'm just sad that the entire OT's plot is pointless thanks to what we learn in tfa and tlj. Watching these in cannon makes it all seem pointless.

I understand that, but that might be a huge difference for us:

The OT's plot gave them a 30 year peace period, which is not pointless. I'm sure we know that eventually there would have been a war again in the galaxy? So in that regard we only disagree about the degree (or here: exact time), not the fact itself

The other point is that I was too exposed to the books and comics to ever think that there is some sort of easy transition. (edit: and that's actually going back to the old EU)

1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

I understand that, but that might be a huge difference for us:

The OT's plot gave them a 30 year peace period, which is not pointless. I'm sure we know that eventually there would have been a war again in the galaxy? So in that regard we only disagree about the degree (or here: exact time), not the fact itself

The other point is that I was too exposed to the books and comics to ever think that there is some sort of easy transition. (edit: and that's actually going back to the old EU)

30 years of peace on 5 planets, the republic seems to be nowhere else sadly.

Just now, jocke01 said:

30

more like 25? Relatively long, at least. We're currently 26 years out of the cold war, but that wasn't a hot war. Then again, there are many wars everywhere.

8 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

A rebellion doesn't just "win". Rebuilding a former dictatorship, full of corruption, into a functioning democracy is extremely difficult. We have enough real-life examples, and they are not galaxy wide.

I understand why they shy away from politics though. It went horribly wrong in the prequels, but now we're demanding more of it somehow?

That's probably why the rise of the first order is covered in part by some books. I really liked the character of Admiral Rae Sloane who took control of the Empire right after Endor. One thing stands out: there is a lot of scheming and political dispute after the empire fell. On both sides!

But the thing is they should never expect the audience to need to read tie in books to understand what the heck is going on. The films should be able to hold up by themselves and not contradict how everything seemed to work in the past or just bring up questions about "Gee, our old heroes must have been real stupid to not even think to jump an x-wing or two into the death star instead of doing the whole elaborate tense battle there at Yavin."

7 minutes ago, kris40k said:

Talking about Kylo Ren's mask, I do find it somewhat ironic in that the movie where he decides to stop his hero worship of Darth Vader and destroy the past, he finally actually achieves what Vader sought:

He destroys his evil master, takes over his armies and marches on to take over the galaxy himself, something Anakin was contemplating since Mustafar but never achieved. Well, except tossing Papa Palp over the edge of the OSHA pit. But that cost him his life.

yea, it is kind of funny, kind of like the old Episode 3 game where if you beat Obi-wan at the end Anakin goes back and just straight up kills Palpatine and declares himself emperor.

Just now, Animewarsdude said:

But the thing is they should never expect the audience to need to read tie in books to understand what the heck is going on. The films should be able to hold up by themselves and not contradict how everything seemed to work in the past or just bring up questions about "Gee, our old heroes must have been real stupid to not even think to jump an x-wing or two into the death star instead of doing the whole elaborate tense battle there at Yavin."

They can't really **** on the OT, can they? The OT was pretty unrealistic, which was fine back then and when we were younger. But nowadays, and being older, we demand more logically consistent movies with more realistic outcomes.

40 minutes ago, Knightcrawler said:

Why would you jump to the assumption that the polling data going down indicates poor reception from a vocal minority? Do you say that purely to justify your stance? People who thought the movie was bad were all just a bunch of trolls, and they don't matter? The "vocal minority" have no reason to rate the film more poorly at the end of the weekend than at the beginning.

What? That's not what I was saying at all? The polling data from that article suggests that the overall feeling from an actual sample of people coming out of the theater being overwhelming positive(89% overall) vs. the decidedly more negative user take of the self reporting Rotten Tomatoes user rating seems to imply that the negative opinions are actually coming from a much smaller group than the RT numbers indicate. Which added to the box office numbers indicating ticket sales went up over the weekend seems like it shoots down the idea that the movie is somehow getting overall bad word of mouth, as the original post I was replying to was saying. That's all I was trying to say.

I was very much in the minority on Rogue One(it was entertaining but not an especially great movie, Scariff was the only redeeming thing about it), so I don't have some sort of need to be in the majority. Anecdotally the group I saw TLJ with was 6 to 1 happy with it, and all of my friends I've spoken to otherwise liked it, so the hate it's getting is just a bit baffling to me, is all.

16 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

hey now, don't make fun of the OT, that's perfect! /s

Technically it's not even making fun of the OT since Jedi ends with the destruction of the deathstar, so it doesnt' actually tell us what comes after

2 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Lastly, I like all 5 films for what they are. But I hate that TLJ comes after TFA.

That might be because you took the end scene in TFA serious and were not shaking your head and asking yourself how JJ could end the movie in such an awkward and ridiculously stupid way.

Forget for a second the build up for the scene, the sacrifices before and thing about the scene from Luke's perspective. You go into exile and suddenly some dork girl appears before you, smiling like an idiot and holding the lightsaber in her hand which you have last seen falling down together with your own hand in cloud city and with some unearthly expectations presenting it to you, like you are some sort of messiahs.
And it is not like TFA made it not clear that Luke felt guilty over Kylo Ren and went into exile and refused to mess with the fate of the galaxy anymore, because JJs own script had this already as part for his stupid plot. Any tension left in this scene for you? Because I don't have to stop, I could go on.

So much for the in-character problem with the scene, but it gets worse on the practical side of script and production, because here we have JJ 'Mystery Box' Abrams, building up as high as he can, one box upon another and than intentionally taking only the first and third film, leaving everything to clean up after him to someone else. That is a huge **** you to Johnson in the first place. I believe Johnson return that favor in the most hilarious way possible, by simply ignoring the mystery boxes and raising a middle finger to that awkward TFA ending scene, emo-kid Kylo Ren, calling Kylo Ren in universe out for that stupid mask and his childish actions and killing Snoke off in a very thematic way to expand the character of Kylo Ren beyond stupid, giving actually purpose to Han Solo's death, purpose to Kylo Ren acting potentially intentionally more childish than he he to lure Snoke into false security and actually progressing the character, making Kylo to something which he was not in TFA: A ******* good villain.

And while Leia's resistance cell got mostly destroyed during the movie, she clearly said that they have plenty of allies, the setup is there, the spark for rebellion is set. So building the third movie will actually be quite easy compared to this middle piece of the trilogy.
Still, I am looking much more forward die Rian Johnson's own trilogy and Filoni's new project. JJ "definitely not Khan" Abrams burned me a few times too often.