8 minutes ago, Captain Pellaeon said:...always hugely respected Christopher Lloyd...
AAAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Sorry, I just had to! 
Yes, the 1.21 gigawatts he shot from his hands were awesome!
No offense, I have to apologize. But the idea of Doc Brown as a Star Wars villain is priceless.
Edited by debilerD. Tyranus was a minor villain set up to die from the start, he was not fundamental. Snoke was the big BIG baddie that turned Kylo Ren. He had a story to tell.
But they had seen Game of Thrones...
Just now, Larky Bobble said:D. Tyranus was a minor villain set up to die from the start, he was not fundamental. Snoke was the big BIG baddie that turned Kylo Ren. He had a story to tell.
But they had seen Game of Thrones...
Kylo sought him out voluntarily. After getting scared of Uncle Luke getting touched by the Dark Side and thinking about murdering him for a minute.
In Both movies they say that Snoke had him first.
7 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:How much did we know about Palpatine (or as he’s really only known as ‘The Emperor’) in ROTJ?
Not much. We know he’s a Sith, we know he’s eeeevil but we don’t know where he came from, how he got to power, or how he turned Vader.
We don’t need to know any of it. We just see a caricature of a mastermind villain. He serves a purpose for Luke to resist him and help Vader redeem himself (something I have always had a big problem with but that’s for another thread).
What more do we really need to know about Snoke? Nothing.
They're presented completely differently though. Snoke drops hints about the past and his role in it, it completely contradicts all we know about the power play in the OT. Palp didn't do any of that - he was The Emperor in A New Hope, he was The Emperor in RotJ. He didn't try to justify or explain his position, the only thing you know about him is that 1) he rules the galaxy and 2) he turned Vader. But considering that was all the context we had for the entire franchise (and we knew it before we met him), that's all you needed. Snoke's character not only begs more questions but he prompts you to ask them.
TLDR: We 'need' to know because the film makers have made us want to know. They didn't HAVE to make us want to know, but they made that choice for some reason.
3 minutes ago, Larky Bobble said:In Both movies they say that Snoke had him first.
In TLJ, Luke says Leia blamed Snoke, but Luke blamed himself. In the flashback scene, it's shown that Ben turned against Luke and destroyed the new Jedi Temple, and it is implied that Ben sought Snoke out AFTER this.
You imply it. I didn't. It was said, multiple times, that Snoke was already in his head.
Maybe Snoke kept appearing to him like Kylo/Rey in TLJ. So Kylo never went anywhere, but Snoke was still seducing him.
3 minutes ago, Captain Pellaeon said:In TLJ, Luke says Leia blamed Snoke, but Luke blamed himself. In the flashback scene, it's shown that Ben turned against Luke and destroyed the new Jedi Temple, and it is implied that Ben sought Snoke out AFTER this.
I took the dialogue to mean smoke got to ben, then Luke sensed it.
Guess I gotta go back an rewatch it
18 minutes ago, __underscore__ said:They're presented completely differently though. Snoke drops hints about the past and his role in it, it completely contradicts all we know about the power play in the OT. Palp didn't do any of that - he was The Emperor in A New Hope, he was The Emperor in RotJ. He didn't try to justify or explain his position, the only thing you know about him is that 1) he rules the galaxy and 2) he turned Vader. But considering that was all the context we had for the entire franchise (and we knew it before we met him), that's all you needed. Snoke's character not only begs more questions but he prompts you to ask them.
TLDR: We 'need' to know because the film makers have made us want to know. They didn't HAVE to make us want to know, but they made that choice for some reason.
Fair
21 minutes ago, __underscore__ said:They're presented completely differently though. Snoke drops hints about the past and his role in it, it completely contradicts all we know about the power play in the OT. Palp didn't do any of that - he was The Emperor in A New Hope, he was The Emperor in RotJ. He didn't try to justify or explain his position, the only thing you know about him is that 1) he rules the galaxy and 2) he turned Vader. But considering that was all the context we had for the entire franchise (and we knew it before we met him), that's all you needed. Snoke's character not only begs more questions but he prompts you to ask them.
TLDR: We 'need' to know because the film makers have made us want to know. They didn't HAVE to make us want to know, but they made that choice for some reason.
That‘s one of my main gripes with the movie, next to Bb8, Spacewalk Leia and the timeframe.
Everything else can be justified imo, but those four points are just weird choices
1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:That‘s one of my main gripes with the movie, next to Bb8, Spacewalk Leia and the timeframe.
Everything else can be justified imo, but those four points are just weird choices
Moon-walking Leia is unforgivable, 100% ridiculous.
"Vacuum doesn't kill instantly" had a certain amount of precedent, at least, in both newcanon and Legends. Leia being able to telekinetically move herself a long way, and remain conscious, does seem a bit more powerful than previous "Jedi survive vacuum for a while" scenes.
Just now, Ironlord said:"Vacuum doesn't kill instantly" had a certain amount of precedent, at least, in both newcanon and Legends. Leia being able to telekinetically move herself a long way, and remain conscious, does seem a bit more powerful than previous "Jedi survive vacuum for a while" scenes.
She too is a Skywalker. She's had a lot of time to learn too, even if she didn't become a pupil of Luke's. I think it's perfectly reasonable that she's strong and capable.
31 minutes ago, Larky Bobble said:In Both movies they say that Snoke had him first.
Jup. They totally did. And Snoke and Luke both totally did fall for it. Larky apparently as well. ;-)
The movie makes clear that Luke thought Snoke did get him, but was mistaken and that was exactly what did turn Kylo, but Luke was way to ashamed of it to go around and correct that common misconception about his nephew.
That seems to be the thing about this movie. There's lots and lots of great stuff in there. But people (me included) have a hard time appreciating it because of some unbelievable flaws. Thinking about it, the whole Canto Bight sequence and everything around it seems like a late addition, because it's just so different from the rest of the movie.
If shed pushed off something it would of made some sense, if Jedi can pull themselves like that why use force jump?
Let's not forget it was an explosive decompression and you don't lose momentum in space so she was traveling away at a decent speed.
4 minutes ago, Ironlord said:"Vacuum doesn't kill instantly" had a certain amount of precedent, at least, in both newcanon and Legends. Leia being able to telekinetically move herself a long way, and remain conscious, does seem a bit more powerful than previous "Jedi survive vacuum for a while" scenes.
It does kill pretty quick. There was some time between when she was sucked out of the ship and when she floated back. WE got to see her just floating there fro a while before her fingers started moving. And the freezing cold should have done some damage as well. It's just hard to suspend disbelief to this level.
2 minutes ago, Hobojebus said:If shed pushed off something it would of made some sense, if Jedi can pull themselves like that why use force jump?
Let's not forget it was an explosive decompression and you don't lose momentum in space so she was traveling away at a decent speed.
She could have been blasted into some debris which would have slowed her velocity, however, this would have left her with some kind of visible body damage, I would think. Even her make-up was unaltered. It's just a bad scene.
2 minutes ago, Hobojebus said:Let's not forget it was an explosive decompression and you don't lose momentum in space so she was traveling away at a decent speed.
The momentum part bothered me, she should have been hurtling through space unless slowed down by slamming into something which would likely been hard enough to squish her.
But then you get into the whole "Aether in Star Wars space" bit where space in Star Wars is more of a fluid environment and I dunno, F it, its the Force.
3 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:That assumes that SKB was built in some few years. We know the first DS took decades. What if it was too far ahead to reallocate ressources? What if the Republic was way larger when SKB construction started? We don‘t know any of that, but that goes both ways. It could easily be plausible too, so it‘s on you if you are bothered by it because you chose to be.
Personally, I'm just boggled by it because of how preposterous the First Order's resources are, because despite being beaten and relegated to the fringes of space, they've managed to find:
Any of these points would be implausible for a defeated Empire, especially one that the New Republic had deemed (as per TFA's crawl) as being an insignificant enough threat to not just go snuff out. And yet we also get zero explanation or account of the origins of this miraculous BIGGER, BADDER, RICHER, STRONGER new faction, which is just as insulting to fans of the Star Wars mythos (though can be stomached by your average Blockbuster Movie viewer who can pretty easily enjoy mindless drivel with flashy explosions... but if I just wanted that I'd see some throwaway Transformers movie or Rampage or something, not an Episodic Installment in a long-loved and world-built Star Wars franchise).
2 minutes ago, kris40k said:The momentum part bothered me, she should have been hurtling through space unless slowed down by slamming into something which would likely been hard enough to squish her.
But then you get into the whole "Aether in Star Wars space" bit where space in Star Wars is more of a fluid environment and I dunno, F it, its the Force.
The Raddus would still have been accelerating whereas her velocity was fixed.
on further reflection and a second viewing I actually like this movie a lot. Is it one of the best star wars films no. I still think the movie is assembled like a hot mess, and I still think Finn has become a completely useless character, and I feel bad for Boyega because he is a fantastic actor. I do wish there was more Rey and Luke still...that being said I think I figured something out.
Episode 7 was Han's movie
Episode 8 was Luke's movie
Episode 9 is/was supposed to be Leia's movie.
This is probably why Leia didn't die int he original screen play, and obviously hasn't died yet. But I think she was supposed to in 9, or be the final hand off.
It felt more like the last movie of a trilogy than a middle chapter tho.
5 minutes ago, Estarriol said:The Raddus would still have been accelerating whereas her velocity was fixed.
Yeah, my complaint is that it appeared that her velocity had reduced; it should not have unless she impacted something to transfer that force (little f) away from her mass to slow her down. Instead of drifting slowly when she was doing the hand twitch; her corpsicle should have been moving fast.
Edit: but again, this is all moot because space in Star Wars doesn't behave like space In Real Life
Edited by kris40k5 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:
Personally, I'm just boggled by it because of how preposterous the First Order's resources are, because despite being beaten and relegated to the fringes of space, they've managed to find:
- Find legions upon legions of fanatical troops, including an entire system in place to kidnap and brainwash infants into Storm Troopers (which for some reason is a practice that doesn't make the New Republic view them as a serious threat)
- Arm and armor that entire legion, often with weird or novel weaponry
- Find a Dark Force User leader who's ability to Force Zap and Force Ragdoll makes even Palpatine's abilities look weak
- Build a Death Star III that is larger and far more powerful than the first two
- Build a fleet of Resurgence Star Destroyers (which are literally twice as big as ISDs)
- Build multiple Dreadnaughts, which are pretty equivalent to SSDs (Poe says "We have a chance to take out a Dreadnaught!" implying it's not the only one)
- Build Snoke's MEGA-GIANT-ULTRA ship, which be all stats seems to be a feat of engineering on par with building a Death Star
- Create Magic TIE-Mounted Warheads that can go right through the shields of a heavy warship
- Building SUPER-TIEs and MEGA-Walkers, like seriously it's not even that they're most heavily relying on old Galactic Empire leftover pieces of the military industrial complex... they're building newer and bigger and better everything
- All done on a scale that's capable of taking back control of the Galaxy within a few days after one Republic fleet is destroyed. Like, uh, what about all he independent ships and local defense forces and such that they'd have to contend with... it's not like the First Order has the only ships and guns in the Galaxy... In the Clone Wars the Republic forces and separatists forces were often bolstering local forces (Naboo/Gungan armies, Wookie Armies, Utapaun Armies, Geonosian Armies, etc. ...). What TLJ manages to do is to make the Galaxy feel super small again by implying that nobody else has ships or military forces.
Any of these points would be implausible for a defeated Empire, especially one that the New Republic had deemed (as per TFA's crawl) as being an insignificant enough threat to not just go snuff out. And yet we also get zero explanation or account of the origins of this miraculous BIGGER, BADDER, RICHER, STRONGER new faction, which is just as insulting to fans of the Star Wars mythos (though can be stomached by your average Blockbuster Movie viewer who can pretty easily enjoy mindless drivel with flashy explosions... but if I just wanted that I'd see some throwaway Transformers movie or Rampage or something, not an Episodic Installment in a long-loved and world-built Star Wars franchise).
Basically this.
It feels as though whatever expanded universe they do come up with (between episode 6 and 7) will have to spend most of its time justifying how the First Order was created and managed to keep its assets hidden.