25 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

That's something important to note, though it underlines as well that Jyn Erso got in her own movie less characterisation by action than even Plasma got in TLJ. Jyn does even less in RO, stuff happens to her, but she isn't doing anything by her own choice ... Phasma has a similar problem in TFA, less so in TLJ.

I don't really agree with that assessment of Jyn at all. There are a lotttt if things that just happen to her, sure, but the same is true of Luke in ANH. She does plenty. Off the top of my head--

Right off the bat, she kicks *** while being "rescued" before K-2SO puts her down

Saving the kid during the firefight

Climbing the platform to Krennic/Galen

Making the decision to mutiny

There are things that happen beyond her control, but she constantly tries to take back control. I think the editing makes the shift in her interactions with Cassian and the Alliance a little jarring (probably my biggest complaint from a character standpoint), but her motivations and personality are made pretty apparent from the get-go.

15 minutes ago, BadMotivator said:

Continuity error. The big guns on the dreadnought can't hit the cruiser, but can hit the tiny transports on the other side of it with 100% accuracy.

*Nudges my glasses further up my nose*

Actually there was a reason for this! They could hit the Raddus just fine, they were the whole time, but the Raddus had all its deflector shields covering the rear. The range they were at + the shields meant the Supremacy couldn't damage it.

HOWEVER! The transports were unsheilded and slow(i think they were slow, not sure) so when the Raddus ran out of meaningful fuel the transports tried to slip away while the Raddus was shot to death, but they were tipped off about the transports and proceeded to pick them off one by one!

Oh, and I wonder if Chancellor Mon Mothma's plan to build up local defensive militaies instead of a strong central military will pay off for the resistance.

Just now, codegnave said:

*Nudges my glasses further up my nose*

Htally there was a reason fo r this! They could hit the Raddus just fine, they were the whole time, but thedoesn'ts had all its deflector sh ields covering the rear. The range they were at + the shields meant the Supremacy couldn't damage it.

HOWEVER! The transports were unsheilded and slow(i think they were slow, not sure) so when the Raddus ran out of meaningful fuel the transports tried to slip away while the Raddus was shot to death, but they were tipped off about the transports and proceeded to pick them off one by one!

No, I'm talking about the big guns. They quite explicitly said we cant hit the cruiser because its staying out of range. They could fire potshots with smaller guns, which is what they were doing, but the big siege cannons were out of range. Then they turn the big siege guns on the transports...

Also, fun tidbit. Cloaking in Star Wars doesnt work like it used to

For anyone who doesn't understand whats going on in the galaxy heres my summary from both TFA, TLJ, the visual guides for both films, and me stringing it together.

Following Jakku and the Galactic concordance the New Republic demilitarised stripping it's fleet down by 80 to 90 percent. Most systems have to fend for themselves and crime and pirate gangs sky rockets.

The New Republic Senate essentially gets jack done and never have control over the full galaxy, only a fraction with many systems becoming neutral or belonging to the neutered Imperial Remanant.

The First Order show up on the scene from the Unknown regions and the Imperial Remanent joins them. The First Order's efficiency and power frightens the New Republic into inaction and inspires Imperialists and Fascist sympathizers in the NR. The First Order begins to send agents into the known galaxy to subvert opposition internally begining a cold war with the NR.

After Leia is revealed to be Vader's daughter and falls from grace in the NR senate, she forms the Resistance to counter the subterfuge of the FO.

When Starkiller Base wipes out the Hosnian System the New Republic leadership and main fleet is destroyed the New Republic is thrown into anarchy.

In the Last Jedi the First Order quickly take advantage of the chaos and dispatch large fleets to all major NR systems obliterating much of the remaining scattered New Republic fleets. So by the time of the movie the FO essentially has a stranglehold on the galaxy with most systems offering little further resistance. The galaxy still hasn't

Snoke and Hux are desperate to annihilate the Resistance because Leia and Rey are trying to bring Luke and the Jedi into the war, because they are symbols that could unify a capitulating galaxy. The First Order is winning the war.

What makes Ren killing Snoke so brilliant is that instead of this genius dark eizadd controlling everything we have an impetuous kid running a massive military force.

2 hours ago, Odanan said:

The Prequels are fun to watch? God, I tried to do a SW marathon before Ep. 8 and I couldn't finish Ep. 1. The Prequels get (even) worse as the time passes.

I have softened on TPM as it has aged. Not sure why.

2 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

I have softened on TPM as it has aged. Not sure why.

For me it was the LEGO game. Playing through all the parts of a movie scene-by-scene as adorable puzzle-solving Minifigures really makes you love that movie.

P.S. also go play the Force Awakens LEGO game if you haven't. I don't know why but that's what actually convinced me that I liked the new characters.

3 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

I have softened on TPM as it has aged. Not sure why.

Whats the line from watchmen, "things change, what happened happened 19 years ago i'm [insert age here] everyday the future looks a little bit darker, but the past even the grimy parts keep on getting brighter"

Also, I just got back from seeing it again, and I think I figured out why Poe wasn't immediately killed by a firing squad. Yes, the codebreaker guy told on them, but we have to imagine that the First Order would have been at least intelligent enough to run decloaking scans every now and then. So the transports probably would've been spotted eventually anyway.

That was the one part of the movie that I didn't like the first time (other than Luke dying), which was that Poe got so many people killed, but it actually seems better now that I can think about it that way. And without him, the Dreadnought would have been there to nuke the Rebel base on Crait, leaving them no chance.

As for Luke dying, I'm still a little bit weirded out by that, I'm not sure it seems fitting. I'm kind of hoping he gets reincarnated somehow, but if that doesn't happen, I guess I'll be ok if his ghost shows up a lot. I'd really like it if his ghost is tangible and can fly an X-Wing. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I'm really looking forward to Episode IX!

20 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

I have softened on TPM as it has aged. Not sure why.

Me too. I think The Clone Wars was actually worse than The Phantom Menace.

Just so you guys know, and as fellow Starship Enthusiasts I am genuinely ashamed so many are missing this.

But look at The Raddus' shields. It's all angled to the back and the blasts never hit or rock the ship. Instead, they blow up away from the ship. So why do Fighters do so much damage then?

What do you mean it isn't obvious?

The fighters are under the shielding. It's not just outright bypassing shields each time it fires, it's genuinely under them. C'mon X-Wing nerds this is elementary for us.

Clone wars has been ranked the worst for most people for as long as i can remember.

I remember when i went to see it with my dad we got to the part where jenga is fighting McGregor on kamaline tea world when the projector broke, i was so happy i almost cried tears of joy, then on the way out my dad said we'd have to go back anothe time to see how it finished.

We haven't talked in decades...

48 minutes ago, Forresto said:

Following Jakku and the Galactic concordance the New Republic demilitarised stripping it's fleet down by 80 to 90 percent. Most systems have to fend for themselves and crime and pirate gangs sky rockets.

But the New Republic Fleet is specifically referenced in TFA (in the sense of how can we fight without it) as being capable or at least standing a chance against the First Order.

I think this is primarily what pisses me off about this latest trilogy is the absolute lack of any knowledge of the background. I could write with just as much authority that the Fleet were off on excersise on Dantooine and too far away to intervene in the story so far with just as much authority as any background so far provided by the films.

2 hours ago, debiler said:

I'm asking you nicely to partake in an ongoing discussion, not interrupt it by posting one-liners only to agitate people.

He's clearly a troll. Just ignore him.

18 minutes ago, Estarriol said:

But the New Republic Fleet is specifically referenced in TFA (in the sense of how can we fight without it) as being capable or at least standing a chance against the First Order.

I think this is primarily what pisses me off about this latest trilogy is the absolute lack of any knowledge of the background. I could write with just as much authority that the Fleet were off on excersise on Dantooine and too far away to intervene in the story so far with just as much authority as any background so far provided by the films.

What TFA and now TLJ confirms is the bulk of the fleet was obliterated in the Hosnian System with the rest scattered at various systems throughout the New Republic.

The First Order knowing these positions from spies and agents in the NR immediately sent significant fleets to crush them and we are led to believe many of the remaining fleets are shattered.

There's a reason Poe says the dreadnought class star destroyers are fleet killers.

The fleets that survived (the ones they called from Crait) escaped to the outer rim. We will see the New Republic Fleet in the next film, or at least parts of it.

51 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Just so you guys know, and as fellow Starship Enthusiasts I am genuinely ashamed so many are missing this.

But look at The Raddus' shields. It's all angled to the back and the blasts never hit or rock the ship. Instead, they blow up away from the ship. So why do Fighters do so much damage then?

What do you mean it isn't obvious?

The fighters are under the shielding. It's not just outright bypassing shields each time it fires, it's genuinely under them. C'mon X-Wing nerds this is elementary for us.

I had exactly the same thought as soon as they established the bubble shields thing. It explains why fighters would be so dangerous to starships and also why ramming is often as effective as it is*. Would make for a great risk/reward feature in a new X-Wing flight sim when duking it out with capital ships. Do you do Poe style gauntlet flying to snipe key components, or do you play it safe and use ordnance from a distance? The possibilities are exciting as someone who loves game design, and it also gives fighters and bombers a very specific (and very powerful) niche.

*and I stress this: as a LAST DITCH desperation tactic.

On a positive note, my favorite part of the movie besides Kylo's development was Luke accepting his failure and using it as a teacher. He spends all these years running away from his past because of one big mistake that he made, but he finally accepts his failure and learns from his mistakes. I thought that was a really nice message.

I've seen a fair amount of griping about Luke's characterisation/backstory in the film, especially his moment of weakness with Kylo, but I think that made his character and Star Wars as a whole much richer.

No-one is incorruptible, not even a legend. No-one is above a fateful mistake, clouded judgement, a moment of weakness. In fact, Luke's fear of becoming a failed master lead to that very failure. It's very believable. For me the sequel trilogy has really nailed the essence of the dark side. It's a very believable downward trajectory in Ren's arc. If we'd have got even half the quality of characterisation we've gotten for Kylo with Anakin in the Prequel Trilogy it would have been awesome. People who said that Kylo was just a whiny emo kid in TFA really missed out on the subtleties of the character and TLJ really ran with the setup we got in TFA.

While I'm thinking of it as well, I think that Phasma is in some ways a victim over over-marketing. She was partly so underwhelming in TFA because, frankly, she was way oversold. She was basically always just a mini-boss, just like Boba Fett was. Their solution to Phasma's letdown in TFA was to...over-market her even more this time.

Don't get me wrong, I'd have loved a deeper portrayal of Phasma, but I think the problem is she was oversold in meatspace as much as her minor role in the film.

I have lots of other thoughts but I really don't want to get dragged into a debate. I might formalise them at some point but I wanted to drop my two cents in.

This was a flawed film. Its pacing was off. It also had some deep and brilliant things going on under the hood. I think it will be one of those films that holds up well to second viewings. I don't mean "you need to see it twice before it's good" I mean it's a pretty good film the first time but subsequent rewatches might well bring out new things. For me, that's a really good quality in a film.

The Supremancy, the Mandator, and the Raddus all look beautiful. Absolutely stunning.

Did Jess and Temmin make it or were they in the hanger when it blew up?

Just now, codegnave said:

Did Jess and Temmin make it or were they in the hanger when it blew up?

Jess wasn’t in the film. I’m told there is footage of Snap in a transport at the beginning, but not at the end so he didn’t make it all the way through seemingly.

Jess better not be dead I like to think they’re both off doing secret stuff.

You guys have done an awesome job hitting all the stuff that was weird/wrong/dumb.

Maybe my guard was down from the 10 previews that I was forced to watch, but I laughed at the jokes, I dismissed the dumb stuff, and I suspended my inner nitpick and just enjoyed the show. Unlike TFA, where I walked out feeling totally manipulated, I walked out feeling happy and satisfied. The movie was a big, glorious, beautiful mess, and I genuinely liked it. My fourth favorite Star Wars movie!

11 minutes ago, Estarriol said:

Jess wasn’t in the film. I’m told there is footage of Snap in a transport at the beginning, but not at the end so he didn’t make it all the way through seemingly.

Jess better not be dead I like to think they’re both off doing secret stuff.

If Pava is unceremoniously dead I will personally fist-fight Rian Johnson*.

I feel Snap might be safe, though. I imagine it's in his contract that JJ Abrams has to personally sign off, in triplicate, to allow anyone kill off Greg Grunberg characters.

*This post may contain hyperbole

4 hours ago, BlodVargarna said:

Boba Fett has zero lines in ESB. He stands around and then pushes a carboniteized Han into his ship. Character arc? Development? None but who cares? He looked cool. ROJ: says nothing, makes is accidentally knocked into the Sarlacc pit, and has a Wilhem.

Phasma is way more interesting and developed as a character, but who cares? She’s just to look cool. That’s her entire point. To be ruthless (and a coward) and then say some mean stuff, then die. Freaking Phasma is your problem with these movies? Good Lord.

While this can be nitpicked, it's pretty much right.

Boba Fett and Captain Phasma are both cool.

They are also both lame.

That's why they're both great.

I think phasma can still be alive, as she is still wearing her outfit, I think she could lose her eye though.