I haven't finished reading this entire thread yet but I'll add my 2 pence for the fun of it all.

Overall; I enjoyed the film. I'll start with the things I didn't like first.

I honestly; found the humor a bit much in places. Poe and Hux's dialogue at the start felt very wrong, in fact it felt like Hux was reduced to a bumbling incompetent clown character as opposed to a General in the largest military force in the galaxy. BB-8's coin gun, "Need a lift?" etc. I know Star Wars has always had quips and jokes thrown in in even the serious bits but it felt like some of it was forced. Joke for the sake of joke; not because it actually flows.

The complete character changes in BB-8 and Hux felt... so very wrong in that context and felt like generic slapstick characters. I feel it's a shame as the balance with BB-8's humour was there in TFA and Hux at least gave the impression of being a scary bad guy. BB-8 took out how many security officers but couldn't fight off Teedo in TFA?

Leia's spacewalk. OK, so if you've watched the Clone Wars; you may remember Plo Koon and Ashoka wandering around in the vacuum of space with just helmets on because... the force. It's not too out there from some of whats already in cannon but for fans of the movies alone; I can see it really not fitting. Felt odd to me but... it is what it is. Plot device to take Leia out of command temporarily.

We still have no idea on what really happened between the OT and the new trilogy. Snoke just got ruined. That was cool to see but we still don't really know what happened to destroy the hope our OT heroes fought so hard for. When the first movies were made; we didn't need to know any more than was explained. The Empire is bad and it's a thing. I feel just expecting audiences (who will in no small part comprise of OT fans) to simply accept the First Order IS and that's that is a little cheap. We really WANT to know WHY the hope died. I kind of like the dark outlook we've got but I'd **** sure like to know WHY/HOW we had the Emperor Mk.2 after all that. I get that Disney and LFL are essentially rebooting the Rebellion era for a new generation (Luke even says pretty much that!) but I'd like some plot explanation as opposed to; it just is. The OT just slowed them down a bit.

The timeframe felt weird. The Resistance fleet had 18 hours fuel after the first jump? How long was Rey on Ach-To? Dunno. It felt like the Rey arc was over a longer period of time but both were running parallel.

Poe. OK, so I get the story arc here. I would really like the character development here if it had more consequence. We basically went from "this guy just killed 75% of our own forces" to "Why are you looking at me? Follow him!" at the drop of a hat. Good aim, poorly executed IMHO.

The echoes of Star Wars Rebels. The crystal wolf things leading the way to safety (Lothwolves anyone?), the focus on balance (the Bendu, between the Ashla and Bogan) and the similarities between chasing the Resistance fleet and Thrawns decimation of the Rebels at the end of season 3. When combined with the echoes of the pre-quels (Canto Bight), ESB, ROTJ and even nods to the Clone Wars; it felt a bit like a "mega mix" of Star Wars. That said...

Now for things I liked.

The echoes of Star Wars Rebels. The crystal wolf things leading the way to safety (Lothwolves anyone?), the focus on balance (the Bendu, between the Ashla and Bogan) and the similarities between chasing the Resistance fleet and Thrawns decimation of the Rebels at the end of season 3. This is also a positive for me; it shows the story group are actually working together and consistently across their platforms to create unified vision. I get it may not feel like that to some folks but a lot of hints from the animated shows really trickle through to this movie in subtle ways.

The stunning visuals. Everything looked great.

Luke. I personally REALLY like this arc. I'm happy with the darker events post ROTJ than most were hoping for. I'm happy with the send off he received.

Pretty much everything else.

Are there flaws? Yes. Did I enjoy it? Yes. Is it the most satisfying thing ever? No. Overall; I enjoyed a fun sci-fi romp giving us our goodbyes to the previous heroes who have passed the torch. The Rebellion is reborn. The Empire is reborn with a Skywalker at it's head. I'm curious to see where it goes from here and I'm so glad we didn't get another "Darth Vader built C-3PO?" moment.

To be fair, I must admit one thing: When TFA had just come out and there were people who really hated it for whatever reason, I didn't understand why. I couldn't, because I really had a blast. I watched TFA a couple of times in the theatre and it only grew better the more I saw it. So when people were bashing the movie left and right, I rushed to defend it the best I could. I did so respectfully, however.

Seeing this very same scenario from the other side now, I see how very important it is to stay rational, calm and objective in one's criticism and/or praise. Especially when it's an emotionally charged topic like Star Wars. So I'm doing my very best to voice my opinion thusly. I solemnly swear that I will not resort to namecalling, swearing and accusing just because someone else didn't leave the theatre as disappointed and disheartened as I did.

The Poe-Hux dialogue at the start worked really well for me, partly as it felt exactly like every video conference I've ever taken part in.
'Hello? can you hear us? We can hear you, can you hear us? Oh, now we can't hear you any more, are you talking? Say something.'

I can see the Rey timeline being a bit different to the rest of the film. I guess I figure that it started a day earlier, or something like that. I guess it was longer than 18 hours, maybe 30 hours. But... The Falcon is meant to be super fast in hyperspace, and we don't really know how fast the Resistance cruisers / First Order star destroyers are, so some time can be taken up there.

Thoroughly entertaining. Humor was a bit much in places, but that’s kind of true of most of the series. The fights were original. The characters were complex. The force was mysterious. I liked it quite a bit.

Awwwwww! I want roast porg for Christmas. Don't tell me that didn't look delicious???

Luke - this is Mark Hamill's movie and I liked almost everything that Luke does. It all feels real, and he gives us a Luke that's realistically flawed. It's such a massive shame that we only get to meet this Luke for such a brief period of time because we would have benefitted from a whole lot more of the salty world-weary legend.

Leia - I hate that bit. You know the bit I'm talking about. That bit felt unnecessary and even a bit tasteless as I bet that wasn't in the movie before Carrie Fisher died, then it got added as a cheap 'gotcha' moment. I felt like she wasn't given quite enough to do given how she'd been the symbolic bearer of hope from the end of Rogue One right through to the apparent end of the Resistance. There was a strand of continuity through all the films that could have been pulled on, but wasn't. She didn't have much to do.

Chewbacca - and Chewie was there too. Any fallout over the death of Han? No. Never mentioned. We got a couple of cheap Porg laughs and that was it.

C-3PO & R2-D2 - C-3PO was C-3PO, R2 had a nice little cameo though.

Rey - flat, but I don't think that's Daisy Ridley's fault. In TFA Rey goes through the gamut, we see her desperate, we see her feisty, we see her angry, we see her terrified, we see her wonder at the size of the galaxy... but through it all Rey was a driving force. Rey acted with a strength and confidence of an older soul and the world around her tried to keep up. I think she gets sold short a bit in this film and spends most of it just waiting around for Luke or Kylo to tell her what to do and what to think.

Finn - I feel really I feel sorry for John Boyega. His character already went through a movie running away in order to have his character moment of discovering something worth standing and fighting for. Then he wakes up at the start of this one back at square one to go through the same character arc in a much less compelling and believable manner. He was on a pure holding pattern for this movie.

Poe - I think Poe was pretty strong in this film, his character seemed pretty consistent with what it was in TFA and at least he had an arc in this one. The biggest problem for Poe is that ultimately he's left chasing himself in circles for most of the film because of his pivotal role in the terrible plot devices of the slow-mo space chase. Everything he does is pretty good, but it all contributes to the stuff that you wish wasn't in the film.

BB-8 - **** BB-8. He can **** off. I didn't mind him in TFA, I thought he was a bit of comedy relief but good value. In TLJ he becomes simultaneously a caricature of that slapstick comedy role and a deus ex machina tool who can apparently do anything so long as the cameras aren't on him. Basically, if BB-8 is onscreen in TLJ he's either trying too hard to make you laugh or providing godlike solutions to serve the plot... and he's welcome in neither role.

Rose - I like her. After Mark Hamill she probably has the best parts to play, from star-struck Finn superfan to vengeful sister. She's an embodiment of the beating heart of the Resistance and a touchstone to the wrongs that it's trying to put right. It's a small part but a good one.

Kylo Ren - I like almost everything from Kylo Ren in this film, with the exception of one thing - at the point where he does his 'rule the galaxy as father and son' bit it comes so much out of the blue that you're reeling from the whiplash of his about-face. That needed just a little bit more chance to breathe, to show his conflict turning to resolution and ultimately action, and then to take in what it means to have killed his master. There was more to say here.

Snoke - eh. So that was Snoke. Turned out he was just a paper-thin piece of exposition for getting Kylo and Rey in the same room for one scene. Backstory? None. Where was he when Palpatine was around? Who cares. How did he come to lead the First Order? No idea. Who trained him in the Force? Stop asking these questions. He was a nothing - a piece of background fluff thrust briefly into the foreground to fake you out and make you think he mattered.

Hux - did Hux get played too much for laughs this time? Maybe, it seems like everyone around him knows whats going on better than he does. He became a spittle-flecked caricature of himself and didn't even think to deploy the garrison. Poor.

Phasma - Hi, I'm Captain Phasma, you may have heard of me due to how many toys I've featured in and because I look amazing in this awesome shiny armour. I got cruelly edited out of large bits of TFA but I was always intended to be more prominent so I'm back now and ready to... oh, I'm dead in a meaningless way.

7 minutes ago, Terminus-Est said:

Amazing. (Almost) everything in that sentence is wrong. Especially your spelling of fallacy.

To your point, "the critics" can be wrong, although it's certainly worth thinking about why they have an overwhelming consensus when they do. And trust me, most of them would love nothing better than to kick a commercial franchise when it's down, Mouse House or no. Anyhow, time to depart — this place never disappoints.

im playing mechwarrior while typing so not really paying attention to spelling or grammer

And again consensus means nothing:

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/orville/s01

critic score 21% /fan rating 93%

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/star_trek_discovery/s01

critic score 83% was higher at 93% last time i checked /fan rating 57%

critics are not immune to pressure and personal bias, in the case of STD is clear politics played a large part in reviews everyone was all focused on the women being both captain (janeway was there before 20 years ago) and 2nd officer which again was already done in TOS during the pilot that got turned into a 2 parter, but because it's 2017 they made a big deal of it because they are not fans and do not get trek.

20 minutes ago, debiler said:

To be fair, I must admit one thing: When TFA had just come out and there were people who really hated it for whatever reason, I didn't understand why. I couldn't, because I really had a blast. I watched TFA a couple of times in the theatre and it only grew better the more I saw it. So when people were bashing the movie left and right, I rushed to defend it the best I could. I did so respectfully, however.

Seeing this very same scenario from the other side now, I see how very important it is to stay rational, calm and objective in one's criticism and/or praise. Especially when it's an emotionally charged topic like Star Wars. So I'm doing my very best to voice my opinion thusly. I solemnly swear that I will not resort to namecalling, swearing and accusing just because someone else didn't leave the theatre as disappointed and disheartened as I did.

Very true, same goes for being called a hater, when really you are just really dissapointed by something you love and have been waiting for. Hate and dissapointment are two very different things.

I could be mistaken, but was "I have a bad feeling about this" in TLJ? I don't recall hearing it.

EDIT: If it wasn't, then we have proof: WORST MOVIE EVER!!! I am kidding, of course...

I was expecting Luke's first line of the movie to be 'I have a bad feeling about this'...

After sleeping on it, I think I like this movie ALOT more than I did last night.

Some of the plot points felt a bit contrived - like the whole mess about going to Canto Bight, but Canto Bight was an important place, and the scenes there were good, and I think in that case the end was worth the means.

Luke's Death is easily the hardest part - but I'm getting over it - and this doesn't even have to be the end for him - he can still totally be a force ghost and guide future heroes.

But so much criticism I've seen I just fundamentally disagree with.

People saying that there was no mention of Han's Death? WHAT? Of course there was! People saying that Holdo shouldn't have stayed on the ship because it should have had auto pilot? Of COURSE she needed to stay on the ship! There's alot of folks who probably need to go re-watch the movie.

And to those who complain that they burned all of the Jedi teachings - Dudes... Rey stole all the books and they are in the falcon. They show them at the end. I think there's a bright future for Episode 9.

It wasn't Rogue One bad, but this film was a slog. It was just filled with stupid (what I assume are) designed-by-committee choices, and felt waaaaayyyyy too long. It's a shame, as I liked parts of the film, but other parts/choices dragged it down.

It's not terrible, but it's not exactly great either 3/5.

Fun movie, although Snoke only turned out to be half the man I thought he would be...

56 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

BB-8 - **** BB-8. He can **** off. I didn't mind him in TFA, I thought he was a bit of comedy relief but good value. In TLJ he becomes simultaneously a caricature of that slapstick comedy role and a deus ex machina tool who can apparently do anything so long as the cameras aren't on him. Basically, if BB-8 is onscreen in TLJ he's either trying too hard to make you laugh or providing godlike solutions to serve the plot... and he's welcome in neither role.

Phasma - Hi, I'm Captain Phasma, you may have heard of me due to how many toys I've featured in and because I look amazing in this awesome shiny armour. I got cruelly edited out of large bits of TFA but I was always intended to be more prominent so I'm back now and ready to... oh, I'm dead in a meaningless way.

Totally agree about BB-8 in this film. Felt like a totally different droid to the TFA. Also; missed the Phasma thing from my post. To me it felt like a cheap way to end something started in TFA because... we can. There COULD have been a really interesting arc with a Phasma/Finn revenge thing going on but... she just strolls up gets beat down by a janitor and then gives him a look of death before falling to her death. It served nothing other than; here's the Finn vs Phasma ya'll want! Felt like a bit of a waste to me.

Just now, Sarcon said:

Fun movie, although Snoke only turned out to be half the man I thought he would be...

Well it didn't stop Maul.

4 minutes ago, Smutpedler said:

Totally agree about BB-8 in this film. Felt like a totally different droid to the TFA. Also; missed the Phasma thing from my post. To me it felt like a cheap way to end something started in TFA because... we can. There COULD have been a really interesting arc with a Phasma/Finn revenge thing going on but... she just strolls up gets beat down by a janitor and then gives him a look of death before falling to her death. It served nothing other than; here's the Finn vs Phasma ya'll want! Felt like a bit of a waste to me.

I can’t believe any of you really think phasma died right there.

2 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

I can’t believe any of you really think phasma died right there.

If she survives that; my dislike for that scene will turn to hatred. I mean... Maul... but... he at least was a powerful force user and had a camp talking snake thing to bring him food whilst stuck at the bottom of... whatever it was he fell down. Shock reveal next movie; Phasma is actually a night sister and now a robot space octopus who only survived because her hatred for Finn was so bad.

3 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

I can’t believe any of you really think phasma died right there.

She fell into fire her armour is blaster proof it wont save her from being cooked.

She died in a MASSIVE explosion..... Like ULTRA massive. And on top of that suffered the ULTIMATE humiliation by having someone see her face (For real that's her #1 bad thing from the books). She's D. E. D. Ded.

Did this movie remind anybody else of Dunkirk? Spending most of the movie almost cornered. Trying one plan after another to escape, then failing spectacularly and losing friends in the process. Yeah I'm pretty sure I just watched Dunkirk in space. None of this should be construed as me not liking it. I was thoroughly entertained. I'm gonna go see it again on Sunday.

Also I hope Snoke is as hard to put down as Legends Palpatine. As far as villains go, he was pretty rad in a "diabolical hugh hefner" sorta way. Up there on his throne all smug in his gold bathrobe.

12 minutes ago, Crabbok said:

She died in a MASSIVE explosion..... Like ULTRA massive. And on top of that suffered the ULTIMATE humiliation by having someone see her face (For real that's her #1 bad thing from the books). She's D. E. D. Ded.

They took that from Rebels (Vader/Ahsoka scene), or Rebels took that from them depending on who was working on their projects first.

There was a lot of taking from other movies Star Wars and not Star Wars. However, I don’t mind it too much. My main thing was there were too many jokes, especially that first 10-15 minutes. Made Hux a complete laughing stock for the entire movie.

I did like how they expanded on the force, but come on Leia? Should had not had that scene at all.

TLJ seemed like a Clone Wars episode in live action that threw in too much humor.

I liked it and will probably watch it again, the Kylo/Rey scene is worth a second watch alone. However, Disney needs to keep the same directors/writers on every movie to keep consistency. BB-8 seemed out of character, Finn’s arc started over, Hux an idiot, etc.

23 minutes ago, Smutpedler said:

If she survives that; my dislike for that scene will turn to hatred. I mean... Maul... but... he at least was a powerful force user and had a camp talking snake thing to bring him food whilst stuck at the bottom of... whatever it was he fell down. Shock reveal next movie; Phasma is actually a night sister and now a robot space octopus who only survived because her hatred for Finn was so bad.

It was just FIRE lol.

24 minutes ago, Hobojebus said:

She fell into fire her armour is blaster proof it wont save her from being cooked.

Heat is just another kind of light. She might have lost that eye though.

I loved the myriad homages to akira kurosawa films - So many! though my favorite was for Rashomon...

Extremely nice attention to details, with many things well foreshadowed from the beginning - from raindrops to betrayal...

cinematography was amazing - far more substance to this film than expected. Looking forward to watching it again to catch things I missed...