53 minutes ago, Odanan said:

Yes, that's what the movie does. That's why I compared it with Game of Thrones.

It subvert expectations - and that's why I loved it.

Now, when Quentin Tarantino finishes his Star Trek movie, can we call him to do Ep. XI?

I want Frank Miller (director of Sin City, Watchmen) to redo all three prequals.

18 minutes ago, Celestial Lizards said:

Did you even watch Clone Wars Season 6?

No clone wars lost me in the first season I wasn't going to watch it just because its star wars.

18 minutes ago, Celestial Lizards said:

Did you even watch Clone Wars Season 6?

No clone wars lost me in the first season I wasn't going to watch it just because its star wars.

I really don't understand the hate. I really enjoyed the movie. I enjoyed who it was for - everyone. Yes, there is humour, some silly, some subtle, but it is there to give a breather, especially for some younger viewers in a long movie.

Any “plot holes” or decisions since the Raddus’ flight from the Fleet, feel very much in with the original intent if the original movies - that of a fluffy Flash Gordon/Buck Rogers serial.

I felt there was actually a lot of character growth. Poe learns there is more to being a leader than being a good pilot, that sometimes you have to see the bigger picture.

Canto Bight showed Finn about why he should fight for something bigger, and eventually he learned to face his problems head on.

Rey I felt came to terms with her feeling of not being someone - I am ecstatic about her parents being not anyone special. It isn't needed, and very poignant

Kylo grew too, but not a necessarily good way, in that his modus operandi is to kill his father figures.

Rose was a great character, subtle, sad, and her moment with the Fathiers resonated with me.

Leia’s flight was overly dramatic, but harkens back to the old Legends. Truthfully, the space flight is far superior to fighting a Jedi Hutt.

Alas.. for be, Ackbar’s last words will be “its an explosive decompression!”

All in all, my enjoyment stems from it not only being, I feel, a great Star Wars movie, but a movie I can take my young son to and he will thoroughly enjoy - the humour, the space battles, the duels. The suprise characters cameos. The movie was fun, and modern audiences will love it, as well as viewers that understand the feel the original movies went for. Jaded viewers, many who can't let go of the past or whose hindsight is tinted rose coloured, and who hold the original trilogy to a higher standing that it probably deserves, I can see not liking it.

Luke’s projection was brilliant, and a fitting end to the character (maybe), that on subsequent viewings I want to see if all the telltale sighs panned out.. the character with the electrobinoculars stepping into the salt.. did Luke leave footprints?

I can't wait to see it with my four year old son and watch his reactions to it. That is what it is about, nothing more.

8 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

I really don't understand the hate....

...I can't wait to see it with my four year old son and watch his reactions to it. That is what it is about, nothing more.

Amen on both counts. I enjoyed the film for myself, but seriously, try watching Star Wars in the presence of actual real kids living their actual real childhood instead just trying to relive ours. It changes your perspective in enlightening ways.

11 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Luke’s projection was brilliant, and a fitting end to the character (maybe), that on subsequent viewings I want to see if all the telltale sighs panned out.. the character with the electrobinoculars stepping into the salt.. did Luke leave footprints?

He didn’t a friend of mine noticed that first that he wasn’t leaving and marks on the ground

its the little things really

20 minutes ago, Pooleman said:

I want Frank Miller (director of Sin City, Watchmen) to redo all three prequals.

Sadly, what is done is done. The Prequels with JJB, midichlorians, ping-pong bouncing Yoda and annoying Anakin (child or grown up) happened. But you can just pretend they don't exist.

Like some of the diehard SW fans will do with the Sequel Trilogy. And because of this movie, I won't be one of them.

PS: Frank Miller is awesome indeed.

3 minutes ago, Tailsgod said:

He didn’t a friend of mine noticed that first that he wasn’t leaving and marks on the ground

its the little things really

Didn't notice that, but it's awesome that they added the detail. Luke's projection was brilliantly done. Provoking Kylo into acting out of rage, and having him totally fail.

The other detail I really liked was Luke's face in the 3 flashbacks. Different each time, and fitting the way the teller wanted to portray it.

I think it's been done elsewhere here, but I find the comparison with TFA really instructive:

• TFA was (IMO at least), an extremely well-crafted if unquestionably calculated exercise that knew exactly what the audience expected from Star Wars and gave it to them, sometimes to a fault. It played a conservative, careful game and avoided "losing" even at the cost of being great.
• TLJ also knows exactly what the audience expects from Star Wars, and gives them only the bits it wants to, whilst also offering a lot we didn't know we needed or wanted. It throws a lot of stuff at the wall, and (again IMO) sticks a lot of it even though some falls flat. It loses a bit but mostly wins, with a lot of spark.

It's an interesting dyptich, and presented in the right order after the train wreck of the prequels, I think.

It's almost like there's some kind of...balance...at work.

Just weird. Marvel film dressed up as Star Wars.

In my opinion, utterly awful. For what it’s worth I thoroughly enjoyed The Force Awakens (despite its faults) and Rogue One was close to perfect.

I think the Canto Bight side-story was a perfect example of how disjointed the entire film was and a huge missed opportunity to explore the universe. It could have not happened and the end result would have been the same. Anyone else feel it was a bit like a PETA advert?

1 minute ago, DashBarrelRendarRoll said:

I think the Canto Bight side-story was a perfect example of how disjointed the entire film was and a huge missed opportunity to explore the universe. It could have not happened and the end result would have been the same. Anyone else feel it was a bit like a PETA advert?

It was if you ignored the end

the film subverted expectations there too

it had nothing to do with the animals but everything to do with the kids

The escaping with the animals was just an excuse to have that one kid show up.

no he’s not going to be in the next movie but his importance is what he represented

the Force is for everyone

1 minute ago, Tailsgod said:

It was if you ignored the end

the film subverted expectations there too

it had nothing to do with the animals but everything to do with the kids

The escaping with the animals was just an excuse to have that one kid show up.

no he’s not going to be in the next movie but his importance is what he represented

the Force is for everyone

This. ^

(I ran out of likes today...)

65% on rotten tomatoes atm.

YODA

9 minutes ago, Hobojebus said:

65% on rotten tomatoes atm.

You mean 93% from the people whose job it is to watch movies and think about them.

11 minutes ago, Tailsgod said:

It was if you ignored the end

the film subverted expectations there too

it had nothing to do with the animals but everything to do with the kids

The escaping with the animals was just an excuse to have that one kid show up.

no he’s not going to be in the next movie but his importance is what he represented

the Force is for everyone

The kid who casually force-grabbed the broom...

Just now, FlyingToaster said:

The kid who casually force-grabbed the broom...

It was my favorite end shot of a Star Wars movie

Just now, Terminus-Est said:

You mean 93% from the people whose job it is to watch movies and think about them.

Just compare it with rogue one.

Btw: A new hope failed with the critics...

4 hours ago, xanderf said:

Ah, heh, see - that's exactly the opposite. They are intentionally inverting that trope. And I love that!

Chekhov's gun isn't a trope, lol. It's a dramatic principle. Especially given how bloated this movie is, subverting more "tropes" was the last thing that movie needed.

And don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Luke flying in to save the day with his X-Wing was the better ending. I'm just saying the movie has so much unnecessary stuff in it that it never resolves or uses or references again. If the movie was 120 minutes, it would be less of a deal. But it's 153 minutes long. Stop trying to invert every "trope" you can find and maybe just concentrate on making a better film. Playing multiple pointless fake-out games with the audience isn't really the best way to do that.

Oddly enough while the movie dragged in the middle with an abnormally long second act

the third act really wrapped everything nicely

i don’t think there was a story point that didn’t have some pay off at the very least thematically which is what really mattered I think

14 minutes ago, smccaughan said:

YODA

This was the best scene in the movie and I’m super happy because when I first saw his ghost I got super worried it would be the worst

9 minutes ago, Terminus-Est said:

You mean 93% from the people whose job it is to watch movies and think about them.

If I didn't like it, am I wrong? I also watch movies and think about them. Does the fact that I'm not getting paid for doing so invalidate my opinion?

2 minutes ago, Terminus-Est said:

You mean 93% from the people whose job it is to watch movies and think about them.

Yeah critics were lining up to anger the mouse...

What you have engaged in is an argumant from authority phallacy, because critics liked it it must be good is not actually an argument and is not the finishing blow you think it is.

critics loved star trek discovery the fans hate that show and no ones signing up on the on demand to watch the full season.

critics hated orville and the fans love it and can not praise it enough.

critics are not always right, thats why the fan reaction is always far more telling.

5 minutes ago, Hobojebus said:

Yeah critics were lining up to anger the mouse...

What you have engaged in is an argumant from authority phallacy, because critics liked it it must be good is not actually an argument and is not the finishing blow you think it is.

critics loved star trek discovery the fans hate that show and no ones signing up on the on demand to watch the full season.

critics hated orville and the fans love it and can not praise it enough.

critics are not always right, thats why the fan reaction is always far more telling.

I mean I disagree that fans know best

Fans hate change

fans hated empire when it came out

fans aren’t always correct and fan reactions often change over time

edit: not saying critics are always right I just think that anything having to do with ranking a movie when it comes out isn’t accurate until a few years later

i think reaction on this movie is going to change considerably over time but it did a lot and changed a lot so there is obviously going to be backlash to it.

Every movie of Star Wars has ruined Star Wars. In the end your opinion is yours and yours alone. Let’s not rate anything and call it definitative.

I think this film definitely has the most thematic throughlinesand consistencies out of any of the Star Wars movies

while empire and the original trilogy has a lot to analyze I’m very excited about analyzing the themes in this movie

10 minutes ago, Hobojebus said:

Yeah critics were lining up to anger the mouse...

What you have engaged in is an argumant from authority phallacy, because critics liked it it must be good is not actually an argument and is not the finishing blow you think it is.

critics loved star trek discovery the fans hate that show and no ones signing up on the on demand to watch the full season.

critics hated orville and the fans love it and can not praise it enough.

critics are not always right, thats why the fan reaction is always far more telling.

Amazing. (Almost) everything in that sentence is wrong. Especially your spelling of fallacy.

To your point, "the critics" can be wrong, although it's certainly worth thinking about why they have an overwhelming consensus when they do. And trust me, most of them would love nothing better than to kick a commercial franchise when it's down, Mouse House or no. Anyhow, time to depart — this place never disappoints.