Star Wars 8 - The Last Jedi - Reviews (SPOILERS!!)

By IG88E, in X-Wing Off-Topic

As someone whose directed (nothing anything close to notable but no matter the size the culture remains the same), actors generally don't know what's best for a story or film unless they themselves are directing because its not their vision and its not what they do.

Here's an anecdote from a recent short I did.

Due to time and budget restraints I filmed the basic story out so no matter what I had a complete story I could showcase. Afterwards I filmed a lot of inserts (essentially anything that doesnt include an actor's face such as a close up of a ring or in SW a lightsaber.) that I had in mind of editing in a specific manner. To the actor they seemed nonsensical and unimportant (it was about thirty different shots of fingers rolling, hands adjusting a collar, licking lips, etc...) and at the time they even asked to not do them but when I put together a final cut they immediately understood what I was going for.

The same goes for writing. There were lines actors in my film disagreed with and wanted to change. I stood firm because what they didnt get at the time was how important the way certain things were phrased added to the overall project. In the end the actors got what I was going for and the film was better for it.

One thing you learn in filmmaking, no matter what you do, is that every role involved takes a specific form of thought process. To put it crudely actors, writers, and directors are different animals and that doesn't mean their can't be cross over (take Ron Howard, Leonard Nimoy, etc...) but typically when someone is very talented in one way they are less so in others.

Luke was never Mark Hammil's vision, he was always what George Lucas wanted him to be. Now he's Rian Johnson's vision. So when Mark Hammil says its not his Luke, it never was his Luke. He's had thirty years to aggrandize the character beyond what I think the Last Jedi portrayed as a very realistic evolution a character would have after failing a several millennia old religion he's apart of and more significantly failing his only remaining family.

I suck at audio and producing, those aren't my lane and what you learn in filmmaking more then anything is to work in a team and work with people you trust and respect because you yourself are not good at everything.

Edited by Forresto

Hamill's thoughts on Luke's portrayal are easy enough to decipher from the post premiere video clip. I doubt he was aware not only of his final scenes but also his putting Kylo on the path to darkness through the attempted cold blooded murder of an innocent. The final scenes were CGI and the Kylo scene had no dialogue (that I remember - I only went once) and could have been cut from any of him acting in a Lightsaber fight as I don't remember a shot of him and Kylo together there.

It appeared, quite strongly, to have hurt him.

By the way...

The Skywalker Saga, which Ep1-9 are, doesn't have a Skywalker for the final episode....

5 minutes ago, Larky Bobble said:

Hamill's thoughts on Luke's portrayal are easy enough to decipher from the post premiere video clip. I doubt he was aware not only of his final scenes but also his putting Kylo on the path to darkness through the attempted cold blooded murder of an innocent. The final scenes were CGI and the Kylo scene had no dialogue (that I remember - I only went once) and could have been cut from any of him acting in a Lightsaber fight as I don't remember a shot of him and Kylo together there.

It appeared, quite strongly, to have hurt him.

There is no CGI Luke Skywalker, that final battle is actually Mark Hammil.

If Mark had such a problem with the film he shouldn't have signed on, he got to read the script in advance, he agreed to it.

Honestly his criticism at this point is somewhat unprofessional if he actually does feel this way.

That was a sixty something year old man limbo dancing under lightsabers? Yeah...

He may well have been filmed walking in his robes, believing he was there to save the day. It's CGI background with no dialogue. He could have been told anything...

The man was gagged after slagging it off pre premiere, he even said as much.

And he signed up long before he read it. Before Ep. 7. His *** was grass if he'd broken a Disney contract

Edited by Larky Bobble
6 minutes ago, Larky Bobble said:

By the way...

The Skywalker Saga, which Ep1-9 are, doesn't have a Skywalker for the final episode....

Who was Ben Solo’s mom?

Your statement is erroneously patriarchal.

Maybe, but for all intents and purposes the Skywalker name is gone.

Edited by Larky Bobble

The best thing about this movie....

Watching the Pre and Post premiere Hamill conspiracy video learning that David Prowst (Vader actor) said "Obi killed your father" to Luke in the Bespin scene so the real truth was kept hidden from the cast.

Lucas was/is a genius!

4 hours ago, Hobojebus said:

Comics and books are irelevent you can not demand people read every novel in order to understand the charecter in a movie.

Had you trouble understanding the character? Because you seemed pretty fine understanding him when it became relevant for the story. You were surprised that your first look assumption of him was wrong, but they literally made a plot point out of his hotshot character. Was pulled the same thing with Kylo "Who talks first?" as he did with Hux (Can you hear me?).

Anyone was surprised when he cut off Leia? Because even without books and comics it felt pretty natural for me …

30 minutes ago, Larky Bobble said:

Hamill's thoughts on Luke's portrayal are easy enough to decipher from the post premiere video clip. I doubt he was aware not only of his final scenes but also his putting Kylo on the path to darkness through the attempted cold blooded murder of an innocent. The final scenes were CGI and the Kylo scene had no dialogue (that I remember - I only went once) and could have been cut from any of him acting in a Lightsaber fight as I don't remember a shot of him and Kylo together there.

It appeared, quite strongly, to have hurt him.

I love Mark Hamill. But he doesn’t own Luke Skywalker, he’s even said as much.

He’s a brilliant actor and seemingly all around great guy, who has a biting wit and a real love for his fans, but I don’t think he’s a great writer or at least his ideas don’t sound very good. He thought Luke should suddenly appear at Star Killer base with Leia. This is pretty dumb sounding to me.

Of course he doesn't (own the character). But actors do get "into character" and this is one he's carried with him all his life.

As the movie appears to have been a top down construction - the director was the writer - I would have imagined that they would have gone to him for perspective on how to portray the character.

Luke attempts to kill an innocent in cold blood, and it was his own nephew! Sorry, but after what he did to redeem his Father "there is good in him, I can feel it", this was tripe.

On December 23, 2017 at 3:29 PM, BlodVargarna said:

I love Mark Hamill. But he doesn’t own Luke Skywalker, he’s even said as much.

He’s a brilliant actor and seemingly all around great guy, who has a biting wit and a real love for his fans, but I don’t think he’s a great writer or at least his ideas don’t sound very good. He thought Luke should suddenly appear at Star Killer base with Leia. This is pretty dumb sounding to me.

During that quote he mentions a dozen different times that Luke should/could appear. You chose the final, and dumbest, one.

It was an absolutely tongue in cheek statement that you are using.

3 minutes ago, Larky Bobble said:

During that quote he mentions a dozen different times that Luke should/could appear. You chose the final, and dumbest, one.

It was an absolutely tongue in cheek statement that you are using.

You can't even possibly know that.

36 minutes ago, Larky Bobble said:

Maybe, but for all intents and purposes the Skywalker name is gone.

And you've lost me because you've missed a fundamental part of the new trilogy. Kylo Ren represents the Skywalker line and probably name as well given his idolization of Darth Vader.

45 minutes ago, Larky Bobble said:

By the way...

The Skywalker Saga, which Ep1-9 are, doesn't have a Skywalker for the final episode....

That's old canon. Maybe it's not the Skywalker Saga any more ...

Obviously not....

On December 23, 2017 at 3:45 PM, Forresto said:

You can't even possibly know that.

And you've lost me because you've missed a fundamental part of the new trilogy. Kylo Ren represents the Skywalker line and probably name as well given his idolization of Darth Vader.

Did you see/hear that interview? He mentions many times when Luke should enter... And he gets more "grandiose" as it goes on.

Let's call it the "Amidala saga" in that case. It better represents the bloodlines in the films...

47 minutes ago, Forresto said:

There is no CGI Luke Skywalker, that final battle is actually Mark Hammil.

If Mark had such a problem with the film he shouldn't have signed on, he got to read the script in advance, he agreed to it.

Honestly his criticism at this point is somewhat unprofessional if he actually does feel this way.

He's still human, and they would have just made the film without him. They own the character of Luke.

If they can bring back Carrie Fisher, they can definitely clone Mark Hamil, or edit him out entirely.

42 minutes ago, jmswood said:

Who was Ben Solo’s mom?

Your statement is erroneously patriarchal.

Does Ren count as a Skywalker? He changed his name once I guess.

8 minutes ago, Larky Bobble said:

Let's call it the "Amidala saga" in that case. It better represents the bloodlines in the films...

If we go that way, let's call it the Palpatine Saga :P

Wouldn't it be the D. Plagarius Saga (as the big Daddy)?

1 hour ago, Larky Bobble said:

It appeared, quite strongly, to have hurt him.

No kidding. The look on his face in the post-premiere, he looks shocked and broken. That look he gives Rian... If looks could kill, that would be a Force choke right there.

And think of it from his point of view - if this was the first time he saw the final cut of the film - and knowing Disney's secrecy over the film, there's absolutely no reason to believe it wasn't - that showing was essentially Mark finding out that he was being handed his notice.

That's awful to think about.

1 hour ago, SEApocalypse said:

Had you trouble understanding the character? Because you seemed pretty fine understanding him when it became relevant for the story. You were surprised that your first look assumption of him was wrong, but they literally made a plot point out of his hotshot character. Was pulled the same thing with Kylo "Who talks first?" as he did with Hux (Can you hear me?).

Anyone was surprised when he cut off Leia? Because even without books and comics it felt pretty natural for me …

Well first i wasnt even talking about poe purely about not being able to use the books and comics as an excuse.

But while we are talking about it yes i did, he made no sense after TFA where he came across as a competent leader that he'd then turn around and throw away the lives of his pilots to kill one of many dreadnoughts.

Being brave in the face of the enemy is totally different than doing a bit for the sake of lame comedy that has no place in the universe, it's apples and oranges mate.

As for cutting off your commanding officer that should of gotten him shot or flushed out an airlock not a wry smile and a comment about how much she likes him.

5 hours ago, Hobojebus said:

Comics and books are irelevent you can not demand people read every novel in order to understand the charecter in a movie.

5 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

Agreed. I don’t have the time to read through all the comics, books, and other Star Wars related media being pumped out now that Disney has the controls.

I will base my view of the character s based on cinema and nothing more.

Sorry guys but Star wars has been doing this every since ESB, possibly earlier. One thing that the entire series is well known for is filling in a Crap ton of character backstory in associated media. As for that particular Poe plot point i see it more as poe was simply the best man available for that job, he had to get the message back fast and safe with the first order on the hunt for it already. It's not like the rebellion has infinite resources.

Quote

But while we are talking about it yes i did, he made no sense after TFA where he came across as a competent leader that he'd then turn around and throw away the lives of his pilots to kill one of many dreadnoughts.

I see nothing in TFA which Poe as he is at the start of TLJ would have done differently.

31 minutes ago, Ralgon said:

Sorry guys but Star wars has been doing this every since ESB, possibly earlier. One thing that the entire series is well known for is filling in a Crap ton of character backstory in associated media. As for that particular Poe plot point i see it more as poe was simply the best man available for that job, he had to get the message back fast and safe with the first order on the hunt for it already. It's not like the rebellion has infinite resources.

But i didnt read starwars comics as a kid and didnt touch my first novel until the late 90's and never found any issue with the charecters as portrayed in the films, but i do with TLJ.

I haven't read any of the mouseverse books and have no intention of ever doing so after reading reviews, so the only thing thats relevent to me is the film portrayal.