10 minutes ago, jocke01 said:

I think star wars fans that still like a new hope, empire and jedi don't enjoy this one since it takes a dump on everything from those movies.

The ones that dont enjoy the OT anymore likes it since it's a new modern Marvel style action adventure with Wink Wink humor and ones "badass" moment after the other with obvoius setups and whatever powers/rules the screenwriter wants.

Yes I'm going there

“Amazing. Every thing you just said is wrong. “ -Luke

I am an OT kid. Grew up with Star Wars, ESB, ROTJ. I totally hate the prequels. They are garbage that added nothing to Star Wars and took away much.

I have really enjoyed TFA and absolutely love TLJ. I think you missed the mark about the new trilogy. They don’t tear down the OT, they enhance it. For instance, we get to see Luke achieve total force mastery. He no longer even needs to exist on the material world, he’s moved beyond. It’s perfect for Luke.

9 minutes ago, KelRiever said:

That's hardly universal. I like both the original trilogy and everything Disney has done. From the film ranking below, that seems to be the case for many others too.

I don't belive you

3 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

No, I did not see much potential in Snoke. He thought it was a pretty bland and boring concept. Not only bringing DS3, pap Sheev 2.0 as well?

The same way Obi-Wan died. Obi-Wan was not hit by Vader's lightsaber either, but became one with the force by choice. Luke did the same thing. Right after treating Kylo to haunt him forever btw. ;-)
In context that there is a whole generation of force sensitive children waiting to be taught ... a pretty brilliant move. Remember, the jedi order consisted of more than 10,000 force sensitives, but TFA presented us with a a dozen or so in Luke's academy, Kylo Ren and Rey and that's it. The jedi purge and hunt for force sensitives ended with the empire and the new republic lasted for 30 years. The galaxy must be full with force sensitives, broom kid being just one of tens of thousands. Too much to handle for a mortal being …

Well you are a very rare case. Just look at how much fan theorized about Snoke prior to release. There was an aura of mystery around him and there was potential for a much greater character than what we ended up with.

To me (and to many fans) Lukes death was more similar to how Yoda went ghost. He really looks exhausted at the end of the meditation. But it's not really relevant to my comment. We never saw "badass" Luke which is probably what many fans wanted the most. I understand the intend to surprise fans but it would have worked if they allowed him to live for at least the 3rd movie of this trilogy. For me it was: "oh no, they are not going to kill him like Obiwan" then "wow nice, he was never there" then "frack, he turned ghost". Such a bad ending.

1 hour ago, SEApocalypse said:

Speaking of what the empire might do, do we have a source of the devastation of concord dawn?

My best guess would be some kind of Morbidity Sphere or Planetbreaker Base.

21 minutes ago, KelRiever said:

That's hardly universal.

Of course it's not Universal. It's been 20th Century Fox since forever.

28 minutes ago, jocke01 said:

The ones that dont enjoy the OT anymore likes it since it's a new modern Marvel style action adventure with Wink Wink humor and ones "badass" moment after the other with obvoius setups and whatever powers/rules the screenwriter wants.

It's not who the characters are, it's what the characters can do. Welcome to modern cinema.

33 minutes ago, jocke01 said:

I think star wars fans that still like a new hope, empire and jedi don't enjoy this one since it takes a dump on everything from those movies.

The ones that dont enjoy the OT anymore likes it since it's a new modern Marvel style action adventure with Wink Wink humor and ones "badass" moment after the other with obvoius setups and whatever powers/rules the screenwriter wants.

Yes I'm going there

Ahahaaahahaha, what? Dude, Empire is my (now second) favorite..! What is this baseless assumption?

It basically translates to, "Only the fans who like the poo poo kaa kaa will like THIS dookiee!"

just lol.

22 minutes ago, Thormind said:

Well you are a very rare case. Just look at how much fan theorized about Snoke prior to release. There was an aura of mystery around him and there was potential for a much greater character than what we ended up with.T

You do understand why JJ Abrams is a successful hollywood guy with his mystery boxes while still everyone hates him for his lost ending? Mystery Boxes work just fine … until you open them. And btw, there was no aura of mystery around the character, just a mystery box for the audience. There is a huge difference between those two.

The pun is strong with Darth Meanie!

4 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

I was incredibly satisfied with Rogue One, and also am very vested in Rebels. This movie missed.

Both R1 and Rebels are also heavily criticized by a large group of people, with varying degrees of rightfulness.

See? You can't make a Star Wars visual media product anymore that everybody will like.

The Last Jedi Killed my Childhood.

19 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Ahahaaahahaha, what? Dude, Empire is my (now second) favorite..! What is this baseless assumption?

It basically translates to, "Only the fans who like the poo poo kaa kaa will like THIS dookiee!"

just lol.

Okey you like empire? IF Luke hade joined vader and taken control of the empire the galaxy wouldn't really change at all from what we can see in TFA and tlj. So the entire ending of that movie doesn't really matter anymore in Canon. But sure I'm the stupid One...

6 minutes ago, patox said:

The Last Jedi Killed my Childhood.

Boy, if he thinks turning 40 is rough, he should try +10.

6 hours ago, DarthEnderX said:

Gone where?! Did they watch them fly into a sun? In what universe would you think there was no chance of them coming back and thus didn't need to maintain a fleet in case of their return?!

You clearly underestimate how much governments and politicians are usually happy to drop defence spending when the immediate threat goes away. Look at what actually happened in our world post WW1 and before people realised that the Germans weren't actually obeying the treaty of Versailles. The 'Peace dividend' of the 90's once the cold war ended.

Add in a government (under Mon Mothma) that wants to avoid any comparisons with being a new Empire and harks back to the Old Republic (which did not have a large centrally controlled standing fleet), and a whole generation between the last remnants fleeing and the First Order arriving. All this is a recipe for leaving the defence of systems to those systems and just having what was in effect a small 'honour guard' that was tasked with the defence of the New Republic home system (regardless of where it was currently located).

That the FO was able to do a Pearl Harbour and destroy most of the forces loyal to the New Republic was one of the more believable aspects of TFA and TLJ.

6 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Boy, if he thinks turning 40 is rough, he should try +10.

“Where did you dig up that old fossil?”- Han Solo

16 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

“Where did you dig up that old fossil?”- Han Solo

13 more years til Old Fossil status

38 minutes ago, Captain Pellaeon said:

Both R1 and Rebels are also heavily criticized by a large group of people, with varying degrees of rightfulness.

See? You can't make a Star Wars visual media product anymore that everybody will like.

Sure, it's all opinion.

TLJ ain't the worst SW film out there, but for me it was a let down, both post RO enthusiasm and post TFA set-up.

The main thing I would say is it leaves me pretty meh for IX.

50 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

You do understand why JJ Abrams is a successful hollywood guy with his mystery boxes while still everyone hates him for his lost ending? Mystery Boxes work just fine … until you open them. And btw, there was no aura of mystery around the character, just a mystery box for the audience. There is a huge difference between those two.

Well not everyone. I understood and liked the ending. Now until you open a mystery box, there is an aura of mystery around it. The mystery might have been disapointing after watching TLJ but there was potential for something great with the character. Some boxes are worth opening.

And the whole mytery boc theory is really just an image used to explain that you want to leave your audience wanting for more until the end. Most TV shows work like that nowaday and many movie as well. Its not unique to JJ. He did not reinvent any wheel...

3 minutes ago, Thormind said:

Well not everyone. I understood and liked the ending. Now until you open a mystery box, there is an aura of mystery around it. The mystery might have been disapointing after watching TLJ but there was potential for something great with the character. Some boxes are worth opening.

And the whole mytery boc theory is really just an image used to explain that you want to leave your audience wanting for more until the end. Most TV shows work like that nowaday and many movie as well. Its not unique to JJ. He did not reinvent any wheel...

I am totally fine with the characters and the Force going the way they did. (Although Rey really should have a believable back story on why she is good at everything. Even if one of her latent force powers is clairsentience, I am willing to buy it, but they NEED something for me to grasp to!)

For Luke, we don't know how bad Kylo was at the academy. The Knights of Ren could have already been formed. He could have beaten another student to death that day when Luke was over him. He could have pulled the wings off of Porgs just to see them squirm. The fact of the matter is we don't know.

I am fine with where they are taking the characters and the Force.

I am not fine with the Space Battles. Once they start breaking their own universe's rules in a non mystical way, it breaks my suspension of disbelief.

1 hour ago, Thormind said:

We never saw "badass" Luke which is probably what many fans wanted the most.

What you were looking for was fanservice, and I'm glad that isn't what we got. Why do we need to see badass Luke again? We got that in RotJ. But this is 40 years later. Luke isn't trying to be a hero anymore. He's a mentor who failed his student and is trying to make things right by the end. And so he does the most Jedi thing ever by using his head instead of his lightsaber to save the Resistance. Sure he could've stole the show by swooping down in an X-wing and lightsabering some fools, but then what? He gets blown up immediately? Luke said it himself, he can't take on the whole First Order on his own. It would accomplish nothing. Force projecting himself there at least resulted in stalling the FO and Kylo long enough for the Resistance to escape.

And beyond that, his sacrifice brought hope to the galaxy. The Resistance is in serious dire straits by the end, being reduced to the complement of the Millennium Falcon and apparently having no allies left. The last scene with the Battle of Crait re-enactment by the kids shows that word of Luke holding off the First Order on his own is spreading. Maybe that's enough to inspire confidence in the Resistance again.

I always like George Lucas's original thought behind the Jedi Masters (before the prequels.) That a Jedi Master should not use a weapon, but the Force alone.

I was disappointed he had Yoda use a Lightsaber in the prequels.

Yoda shouldn't have used a saver he should have just used his stick like that one master from the old republic stories.

7 minutes ago, Jadotch said:

I always like George Lucas's original thought behind the Jedi Masters (before the prequels.) That a Jedi Master should not use a weapon, but the Force alone.

I was disappointed he had Yoda use a Lightsaber in the prequels.

I feel like that should've applied to Palpatine too. The Palp/Yoda fight in RotS was one of my least favorite parts of the film. So silly.

1 hour ago, jocke01 said:

Okey you like empire? IF Luke hade joined vader and taken control of the empire the galaxy wouldn't really change at all from what we can see in TFA and tlj. So the entire ending of that movie doesn't really matter anymore in Canon. But sure I'm the stupid One...

None of that was even a comprehensible sentence.

36 minutes ago, defkhan1 said:

What you were looking for was fanservice, and I'm glad that isn't what we got. Why do we need to see badass Luke again? We got that in RotJ. But this is 40 years later. Luke isn't trying to be a hero anymore. He's a mentor who failed his student and is trying to make things right by the end. And so he does the most Jedi thing ever by using his head instead of his lightsaber to save the Resistance.

This!

53 minutes ago, Thormind said:

Well not everyone. I understood and liked the ending. Now until you open a mystery box, there is an aura of mystery around it. The mystery might have been disapointing after watching TLJ but there was potential for something great with the character. Some boxes are worth opening.

And the whole mytery boc theory is really just an image used to explain that you want to leave your audience wanting for more until the end. Most TV shows work like that nowaday and many movie as well. Its not unique to JJ. He did not reinvent any wheel...

There is a difference between some mysterious character, someone which is actually a mystery for the characters in the movie and something which the audience just does not know much about. Snoke was an unknown to the audience, but not a mystery to anyone in the world, Luke, Leia and other seem to have a pretty good idea about him.

And yeah, everyone uses mystery boxes. But JJ is obsessed with them, it is an obsessive part of his career. You can say something similar about Snyder and how he sacrifices any substance in his movies for his "moments", those slomo scenes which are supposed to have great emotional impact, but lacked most of it because Snyders obsession and over-use with them. Now I could say something about making dumb movies and Boll as well and how all three are very talented in making crowd pleasers without substance ... but actually Snyder seems to have stopped pleasing crowds and it would get off topic anyway.

But let me point something out for you: The mystery box metapher is NOT an image for leaving the audience wanting for me, it is a metaphor how you can fool the audience into wanting more without having ANY substance. JJ literally stated that he rather has an empty box, an empty secret with no answer, than giving away an actual answer to the audience. And that is how he is constructing his scripts. No answers, just questions. Applies to TFA as well, because you would have thought that at least JJ 'definitely not Khan' Abrams would have the answers to all those questions, but we have Johnson in an interview clearly stating that JJ had no answers at all for him and that he was completely free to move the plot along and find those answers for himself. So he just opened all those empty mystery boxes as quickly as possible and started to tell a story with actual substance.

Besides, you know nothing Jon Snow, there was nothing to understand about the ending and that's the point. You thought you have it figured all out and than Johnson comes and tells you: Nope! Most people don't like this one bit, no wonder JJ did not want to make the follow up after TFA. °_^

50 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

But let me point something out for you: The mystery box metapher is NOT an image for leaving the audience wanting for me, it is a metaphor how you can fool the audience into wanting more without having ANY substance. JJ literally stated that he rather has an empty box, an empty secret with no answer, than giving away an actual answer to the audience. And that is how he is constructing his scripts. No answers, just questions. Applies to TFA as well, because you would have thought that at least JJ 'definitely not Khan' Abrams would have the answers to all those questions, but we have Johnson in an interview clearly stating that JJ had no answers at all for him and that he was completely free to move the plot along and find those answers for himself. So he just opened all those empty mystery boxes as quickly as possible and started to tell a story with actual substance.

This is something about the production of these movies that is baffling to me. To some extent, there's a lot of movie by committee going on, even if the the credits don't seem to indicate otherwise, because that's just how this kind of movie gets made these days...But it's crazy what's apparently going on with Star Wars. "We're going to make a new trilogy but we don't have an over-arching plan for it, we'll just let the creative team of each installment wing it" seems like such a bizarre creative choice. In a way it makes me glad Treverrow got dropped, because what has he done that was good(for certain values of good...) outside of Jurassic World, a movie that was very definitely by committee...

It blows my mind that JJ and Kasden spend TFA setting up mysteries without planned solutions, and did so with no guidance or oversight from anyone. That Johnson was apparently allowed to do whatever he wanted with what they left him, and that now JJ will have to pick up from what Johnson has done for the last film. And that both of these things happened beacuse there was no outline from the start about where this story was going in even a rough sense. This is how they're handling their $4 billion dollar acquisition? Don't get me wrong, as I've said before I enjoy the film we got with TLJ, but it seems like a lot of the issues people have with it stem from Disney's bizarrely hands off approach, rather than the heavily hands on one people were initially afraid of.

EDIT: I mean, it's not like the OT was exactly plotted out from start to finish, but Lucas apparently at least had a rough outline of ideas to go on for sequels.