8 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

That one's a bit different, because the star destroyer is coming OUT of hyperspace rigt on top of a the CR90. I'd expect that to destroy the CR90 in that case, though I'd expect some heavy damage to the star destroyer at the same time. And its way harder to plan exiting hyperspace right on top of an enemy ship on purpose.

2 minutes ago, Pooleman said:

The whole point of doing the calculations is so you don’t fly through anything. Jumping out of the hanger was dangerous but necessary, I guess.

4 minutes ago, VanorDM said:

That's all it's ever been really.

None of the OT had any real hard and fast rules for hyperspace, other than you could "fly right though a star or bounce to close to a supernova and that would end your trip real quick."

Then again we're talking about a movie in which a parsec is a measure of speed...

Well, I'll I can say is that WEG came up with some pretty specific ideas about hyperspace that have been adhered to. . .until now.

The main one being that real-world objects have a "mass shadow" in hyperspace "that will end your trip real quick."

If these mass shadows no longer affect anything, then the Interdictor Cruiser just became a load of BS, because nothing should make you drop out of hyperspace if you don't want it to.

Fuzzy math makes for great storytelling, up until the point that nothing makes sense in-universe.

8 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Okay, so here's a massive plot-hole that was raised and then left unanswered between TFA and TLJ:

So, in TLJ we find out that Luke had every intention of hiding on that island and dying in exclusion without ever being found. So, since apparently that's the case, then why on Earth did he leave a partial map to his location in R2D2 and the other part with Old Rando who we meet at the start of TFA (and why did Poe and the First Order know that old dude had said map?!?!). And then, why did R2D2 just turn on with the other part of the map for no reason at the end of TFA? If we assumed Luke had wanted to eventually be found and as such left maps, and that he had reached out through the Force at the appropriate time to reactivate R2D2 it might have made sense... but since TLJ took a poo all over those theories, it makes the whole "Map to Skywalker" premise of TFA make utterly no sense at all.

7 minutes ago, DirbYh said:

Just the tip of an entire iceberg of poo that is this movie.

Haha, you two will love this, but the actual and true answer is this:

BB-8 asks R2D2 whether he has a map that fits his piece. This prompts R2D2 to boot back up again after he found one in his internal memory.
Where he has it from, you ask? From Episode 4 when he's on the Death Star and downloaded it from the imperial archives.

You'll now say: why did it take him so long to boot back up again? I have no clue. But that is the actual answer, based on the novel.

19 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Hyperspace is pretty much turning into a "it does what we need it to do for the storyline" effect rather than a pseudo-science rule to follow.

It used to be you had to make calculations to jump safely; now you can jump out of hangar bays, jump behind shields, and jump thru other ships.

Also, in the EU, hyperspace was in another dimension, didn't really allow for tracking, and could not be communicated into or out of. All that's a wash, too.

So... Hyperspace technology improves with time?

Who'd say so?

1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

Haha, you two will love this, but the actual and true answer is this:

BB-8 asks R2D2 whether he has a map that fits his piece. This prompts R2D2 to boot back up again after he found one in his internal memory.
Where he has it from, you ask? From Episode 4 when he's on the Death Star and downloaded it from the imperial archives.

You'll now say: why did it take him so long to boot back up again? I have no clue. But that is the actual answer, based on the novel.

okay, yeah he downloaded the EXACT HYPERSPACE ROUT to Luke in Episode 4...from the Death Star...because I guess the archivist could see the future, you see.

1 minute ago, DirbYh said:

okay, yeah he downloaded the EXACT HYPERSPACE ROUT to Luke in Episode 4...from the Death Star...because I guess the archivist could see the future, you see.

I get that you don't like it.

But there are several ways to salvage it. E.g. what if BB8 had the whole route and just part of the map? That is, he had the travel vector but nothing to put it on?

It's really easy to explain that away. Of course it's easier not to do so and try to find another part you can dislike. But what, then, would such a person be doing in a thread like this?!

1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

I get that you don't like it.

But there are several ways to salvage it. E.g. what if BB8 had the whole route and just part of the map? That is, he had the travel vector but nothing to put it on?

It's really easy to explain that away. Of course it's easier not to do so and try to find another part you can dislike. But what, then, would such a person be doing in a thread like this?!

Its not the viewers job to explain things away.

15 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Haha, you two will love this, but the actual and true answer is this:

BB-8 asks R2D2 whether he has a map that fits his piece. This prompts R2D2 to boot back up again after he found one in his internal memory.
Where he has it from, you ask? From Episode 4 when he's on the Death Star and downloaded it from the imperial archives.

You'll now say: why did it take him so long to boot back up again? I have no clue. But that is the actual answer, based on the novel.

I didn’t like that R2 had he map all along. It seems to me that downloading any droids files periodically would be standard procedure, just as wiping their memory is standard procedure. It was just lame that R2 was sitting on it for so long. Furthermore, Luke OBVIOUSLY did not want to be found. The fact that he left a trail of breadcrumbs for some intrepid young adventurous types to follow is frustrating to me.

1 minute ago, Pooleman said:

I didn’t like that R2 had he map all along. It seems to me that downloading any droids files periodically would be standard procedure, just as wiping their memory is standard procedure. It was just lame that R2 was sitting on it for so long. Furthermore, Luke OBVIOUSLY did not want to be found. The fact that he left a trail of breadcrumbs for some intrepid young adventurous types to follow is frustrating to me.

Not entirely false but not correct in legends sources... Memory wipes were standard to prevent droids from developing too much of a personality... R2 avoided that fate. As to nu-cannon - who knows. I don't think they do backups, as it were.

10 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I get that you don't like it.

no, you seem to not even comprehend the level of pure hate i have for what this movie has done

10 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

But there are several ways to salvage it.

Yes, I'm sure with enough novelization, we will get all the backstory to the poor, tortured soul of a man who can see the future, and no one believes him, ranting about some Luke Skytalker that no one has heard of, how his precise location 27 years from now will be critical to some Sub-Prime Leader Snook who isn't the emperor, and btw, they are executing me for treason, better save it to hard drive so there is solid evidence to convict me.

10 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

what if BB8 had the whole route and just part of the map? That is, he had the travel vector but nothing to put it on?

yup, he picked if off a post-it note in the Falcon that Han scribbled in his sleep 27 years ago because thats how the force works, so thank goodness none of the other owners cleaned the darn thing.

33 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Okay, so here's a massive plot-hole that was raised and then left unanswered between TFA and TLJ:

So, in TLJ we find out that Luke had every intention of hiding on that island and dying in exclusion without ever being found. So, since apparently that's the case, then why on Earth did he leave a partial map to his location in R2D2 and the other part with Old Rando who we meet at the start of TFA (and why did Poe and the First Order know that old dude had said map?!?!). And then, why did R2D2 just turn on with the other part of the map for no reason at the end of TFA? If we assumed Luke had wanted to eventually be found and as such left maps, and that he had reached out through the Force at the appropriate time to reactivate R2D2 it might have made sense... but since TLJ took a poo all over those theories, it makes the whole "Map to Skywalker" premise of TFA make utterly no sense at all.

Luke got R2D2 to program hyperspace coordinates into his X-Wing. Luke deactivates R2D2 and runs off after said trip has been plotted. How Lor San Tekka gets the data and how it got split up...that I don't know.

2 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Not entirely false but not correct in legends sources... Memory wipes were standard to prevent droids from developing too much of a personality... R2 avoided that fate. As to nu-cannon - who knows. I don't think they do backups, as it were.

Doin a backup is the first thing I would do, especially if your beloved garbage can droid is not functioning properly.

Isn't a better question 'who made the map'?

It's not like BB8 started with it, my feeling is that a few select people DID know where he went, Lor San Tekka amongst them, and he set it up so that Luke could be reached in case of emergency.

It's trivial to handwave things like this if you actually want there to be solutions. BUt if all you're interested in is finding problems, problems will find you.

8 minutes ago, Hobojebus said:

Its not the viewers job to explain things away.

No, but you could it see as your job to realize when you‘re grasping for details to hate on a story that others like, and not trying to destroy their enthusiasm for it.

Barely anyone thinks these movies are flawless, so we definitely do not need you and other posters like you to spew your vitriol.

Maybe the franchise is not anymore what you liked? Maybe your rose tainted glasses on the OT prevent you from realizing how horribly flawed those movies were, too?

49 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

I'm willing to wager three quadrules that she ends up using a Maul-esque double bladed lightsaber. Because the last couple of films have shown how proficient she is using that staff...

Story wise it would work... but realism (oh my god no! not in star wars!) just because one is proficient with a staff does not mean those skills translate to a double bladed saber. She's good with the staff because it's NOT a saber. She uses it beautifully and elegantly for range control moving her grips up and down as needed. If she fought with a double saber the same way she does with a staff she would cut her hands off.

As cool as the double bladed saber is, the light pike/force pike, wtf you want to call it... is a better weapon. Lightsabers are effin cool...but a stupid weapon. lol

Just now, Pooleman said:

Doin a backup is the first thing I would do, especially if your beloved garbage can droid is not functioning properly.

This is just common sense. This is an advanced computer driven society, whether they talk about it or not, they have back-ups. You build ships to travel in space, super computers crunching mountains of a navigational data, regulating power flows, powering weapons, RUNNING your life support and you have no computer fault tolerance? Come on guys, any IT guy will tell you backups are pretty much the most important thing in regards to a system failure. These people are not that stupid.

1 hour ago, DirbYh said:

Watching Yoda burn the original Jedi texts was like watching the Pope burn an original copy of Jesus' Sermon on the Mount.

It felt like I was watching a fan-fiction written by someone who hated Star Wars and everyone who loves it.

But Yoda didn’t burn the original Jedi texts, just the tree. Rey had already taken the texts.

11 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Barely anyone thinks these movies are flawless, so we definitely do not need you and other posters like you to spew your vitriol.

....and there's absolutely no need to use phrases like "spew your vitriol" to posters who have a different opinion to your own, or to claim (erroneously, I may add), that people are deliberately "trying to destroy your enthusiasm" by pointing out things that irritated them.

If seeing other people's opinions irks you so much, I would humbly suggest staying off the internet.

10 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Yea, I alwayswosgured that elongation was like some sort of 'phasing' into hyperspace, or a visualtifact thereof. Could be that the shipsbad aren't actually physically occupying that elongated space.

If ships in hyperspace were just going really fast along straight lines and could crash into other ships... my goodness, think of how risky hyperspace travel would be. Let alone an entire fleet jumping, like the Rebel fleet does at Endor. If just one warship behind the fighters jumped a millisecond early it'd wipe out all the ships in front of it...

Well, remember Han telling Luke when they were fleeing Tatooine that it was difficult. He heavily implied that crashing into physical objects was bad, hence the need for proper calculations. Otherwise, hyperdrives wouldnt have the gravity well safeguards that prevent their use near large planet sized objects.

21 minutes ago, Jehan Menasis said:

So... Hyperspace technology improves with time?

Who'd say so?

Sure. Hyperspace technology hasn't changed in 25,000 years.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Expansion_Era

Then suddenly, we invent the Mouse Drive that ignores all the previous "rules."

The one thing I (used) to like about Star Wars is that the IP wasn't full of stupid Star Trek-style Things Work However We Need Them To For Today's Plot inconsistencies. I guess that era is over.

19 minutes ago, Pooleman said:

Maybe Han flunked out of Space High and just doesn’t understand how it really works.

Here's how I think Han's statement makes sense with the idea that HYPERspace is a different region than (NORMAL)space (as was consistent with some theorizations about possible faster-than-light travel methods):

Han says you have to be careful because you'd either "fly right through a star" or "bounce too close to a Super Nova" ... so what might this mean?

(1) Fly Right Through a Star: Well, going 'through' something wouldn't normally be a risk, since in a different "dimension," so to speak, so there must be something about going through stars that is a risk. If we assume that significant gravity wells interfere with one's hyperdrive engines (for whatever reason), than going on a path 'through' a planet or star would disrupt one's travels and knock them out of hyperspace. This seems to be the case, because one cannot jump too close to a planet and interdictor cruisers work by creating gravity wells to knock ships out of hyperspace. If it's a planet that disrupts your path that'd be fine, I guess, because you'd have ample time to advert your course once knocked out of hyperspace and back into normal space. But since star's put out so much energy, I suppose you'd just be ripped out of hyperspace in dangerous proximity to its heat and radiation?

(2) With "bouncing" too close to a supernova, I suppose Han could mean this: I think we can assume that "bounce" was a vernacular for "jumping to" or "jumping out of" hyperspace, thus "bouncing" between two planes (hyperspace and normal space) would be equivalent to jumping into or out of hyperspace. And if you "bounced" out of hyperspace near a Supernova you'd be destroyed by the heat and energy after coming back into "real space." Unlike a star, with its massive gravity well, the supernova would have long stretches of low-gravity but exceptionally high energy, so it wouldn't rip you out of hyperspace -- you could go right "through" an explosion of energy in hyperspace without issue. So the risk of such a supernova explosion would be 'bouncing' out of hyperspace IN one, which would result if your exit coordinates happened to be inside one.

So flying through a Super nova wouldn't be a problem, but bouncing out (exiting hyperspace) inside of one would be. And you couldn't "bounce out" near a star because you'd already be ripped out of hyperspace by its gravity well if you got too close to one. I dunno, best I can figure.


I think this is the best way to make sense of Han's claims, and as such it is also consistent with why we don't see weaponized hyperspace, hyperspacing right at a planet's surface, or communications into/out of hyperspace until we get to the lazy New Trilogy movies that don't bother themselves with the rules of the universe.

It's worth remembering that Star Wars was very intentionally Science Fantasy, and as such wasn't trying to be realistic. Lucas knew that space was a vacuum, but clearly went with a sort of "aether" theory of space for its more flashy effects (and as such saying that the Raddus should permanently accelerate or wouldn't slow down when it ran out of fuel is true if the Raddus were in our real universe vacuum, but it's not...and in that sense TLJ works well enough with Star Wars' aether-esque space). Similarly, while most modern scientists think that if any faster-than-light travel were ever theoretically possible it'd have to use something like a warp bubble (a la Star Trek) again Lucas went with the the "other dimensional entrance/exit" classic theories that had been proposed.

This is not to say that Star Wars doesn't have an logic or physics to it, just that it's logic and physics are not consistent with our own universe's. Which is fine, except when new story-tellers come in and take a dump all over the threads that hold our fictional universe together.

6 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Here's how I think Han's statement makes sense with the idea that HYPERspace is a different region than (NORMAL)space (as was consistent with some theorizations about possible faster-than-light travel methods):

Han says you have to be careful because you'd either "fly right through a star" or "bounce too close to a Super Nova" ... so what might this mean?

(1) Fly Right Through a Star: Well, going 'through' something wouldn't normally be a risk, since in a different "dimension," so to speak, so there must be something about going through stars that is a risk. If we assume that significant gravity wells interfere with one's hyperdrive engines (for whatever reason), than going on a path 'through' a planet or star would disrupt one's travels and knock them out of hyperspace. This seems to be the case, because one cannot jump too close to a planet and interdictor cruisers work by creating gravity wells to knock ships out of hyperspace. If it's a planet that disrupts your path that'd be fine, I guess, because you'd have ample time to advert your course once knocked out of hyperspace and back into normal space. But since star's put out so much energy, I suppose you'd just be ripped out of hyperspace in dangerous proximity to its heat and radiation?

(2) With "bouncing" too close to a supernova, I suppose Han could mean this: I think we can assume that "bounce" was a vernacular for "jumping to" or "jumping out of" hyperspace, thus "bouncing" between two planes (hyperspace and normal space) would be equivalent to jumping into or out of hyperspace. And if you "bounced" out of hyperspace near a Supernova you'd be destroyed by the heat and energy after coming back into "real space." Unlike a star, with its massive gravity well, the supernova would have long stretches of low-gravity but exceptionally high energy, so it wouldn't rip you out of hyperspace -- you could go right "through" an explosion of energy in hyperspace without issue. So the risk of such a supernova explosion would be 'bouncing' out of hyperspace IN one, which would result if your exit coordinates happened to be inside one.

So flying through a Super nova wouldn't be a problem, but bouncing out (exiting hyperspace) inside of one would be. And you couldn't "bounce out" near a star because you'd already be ripped out of hyperspace by its gravity well if you got too close to one. I dunno, best I can figure.


I think this is the best way to make sense of Han's claims, and as such it is also consistent with why we don't see weaponized hyperspace, hyperspacing right at a planet's surface, or communications into/out of hyperspace until we get to the lazy New Trilogy movies that don't bother themselves with the rules of the universe.

It's worth remembering that Star Wars was very intentionally Science Fantasy, and as such wasn't trying to be realistic. Lucas knew that space was a vacuum, but clearly went with a sort of "aether" theory of space for its more flashy effects (and as such saying that the Raddus should permanently accelerate or wouldn't slow down when it ran out of fuel is true if the Raddus were in our real universe vacuum, but it's not...and in that sense TLJ works well enough with Star Wars' aether-esque space). Similarly, while most modern scientists think that if any faster-than-light travel were ever theoretically possible it'd have to use something like a warp bubble (a la Star Trek) again Lucas went with the the "other dimensional entrance/exit" classic theories that had been proposed.

This is not to say that Star Wars doesn't have an logic or physics to it, just that it's logic and physics are not consistent with our own universe's. Which is fine, except when new story-tellers come in and take a dump all over the threads that hold our fictional universe together.

I also flunked out of Space School.

3 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

But Yoda didn’t burn the original Jedi texts, just the tree. Rey had already taken the texts.

The books could be shoved up Chewie's smuggling compartment, for all I care. Don't you get it?! It's not about the darn books. It's about what's in them. What they represent and symbolize. It's about reverence for tradition and accrued wisdom, and the humility and patience that requires. You're telling me that everything the Jedi ever knew and taught was so worthless you can just forget about it. Burn it. Keep it on a shelf. whatever. just forget about it. Just believe in yourself. No further insight into the nature of the Force is required. All those years of training, meditation, study, screw it.

And I guess the whole Jedi Archive on Coruscant doesn't exist, and those books are all that's left. Maybe it's all explained in a novel that Palpatine destroyed that, too. All those decades of plotting to gain access to it, and, "meh, not important." Guess all those Jedi secrets were just Yoda's way of trolling, too. Turns out to have been Gungan breeding documentaries, all along.

14 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

I think this is the best way to make sense of Han's claims, and as such it is also consistent with why we don't see weaponized hyperspace, hyperspacing right at a planet's surface, or communications into/out of hyperspace until we get to the lazy New Trilogy movies that don't bother themselves with the rules of the universe.

It's worth remembering that Star Wars was very intentionally Science Fantasy, and as such wasn't trying to be realistic. Lucas knew that space was a vacuum, but clearly went with a sort of "aether" theory of space for its more flashy effects (and as such saying that the Raddus should permanently accelerate or wouldn't slow down when it ran out of fuel is true if the Raddus were in our real universe vacuum, but it's not...and in that sense TLJ works well enough with Star Wars' aether-esque space). Similarly, while most modern scientists think that if any faster-than-light travel were ever theoretically possible it'd have to use something like a warp bubble (a la Star Trek) again Lucas went with the the "other dimensional entrance/exit" classic theories that had been proposed.

This is not to say that Star Wars doesn't have an logic or physics to it, just that it's logic and physics are not consistent with our own universe's. Which is fine, except when new story-tellers come in and take a dump all over the threads that hold our fictional universe together.

Bingo. Furthermore, I would point out that WEG put in a lot of energy to "explain" all this stuff, and those rules have generally been followed. . .until now.

And speaking of dumb science, I'll just point out that modern day nuclear reactor can run for 70 YEARS. But the entire Resistance Fleet is imperiled because they didn't top off at the last Gas-n-Sip.

Suspension of disbelief requires some consistency, otherwise it just gets stupid. The Force is magical enough, I'd prefer if the "science" made "sense".

55 minutes ago, Pooleman said:

Maybe Han flunked out of Space High and just doesn’t understand how it really works.

Or was bluffing and trying to sound like he knew what he was talking about to get himself a job.

15 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

....and there's absolutely no need to use phrases like "spew your vitriol" to posters who have a different opinion to your own, or to claim (erroneously, I may add), that people are deliberately "trying to destroy your enthusiasm" by pointing out things that irritated them.

If seeing other people's opinions irks you so much, I would humbly suggest staying off the internet.

Yes it‘s not like Star Wars fan communities are any different than any other cesspit of the internet.

Them/you keeping quiet and not hating on the movie possibly has the effect that more people like our hobby, that we get more new players, and that this place here seems slightly positive.

But them/you being as loud and producing 40 pages of why you hate the movie is clearly the more reasonable choice because you have a right to do it. Nevermind the question whether you should.

The hatred is so irrational - as even admitted - that vitriol is more appropriate than „irritated“, by the way