9 hours ago, Kieransi said:

Yep, si

12 hours ago, Pooleman said:

I’m pretty sure Kylo was not being honest about Rey’s parentage.

nce they didn't tell us for sure, we'll keep seeing stuff like this until Episode IX comes out and (spoiler) also doesn't tell us who Rey's parents are:

If the timeline worked out that would have actually been interesting though.

I disagree with all of this. In Before the Awakening, Rey remembers her parents. I think Kylo has it right and Rey wants anyone in the galaxy or the galaxy itself to tell her a different story about her parents than the one she remembers.

4 hours ago, jmswood said:

I disagree with all of this. In Before the Awakening, Rey remembers her parents. I think Kylo has it right and Rey wants anyone in the galaxy or the galaxy itself to tell her a different story about her parents than the one she remembers.

No, I also think Kylo is right and it's a nice plot twist to have a completely random new person who's not related to anyone else. Star Wars was getting a little inbred.

I was just saying that I'm pretty sure we'll start to see tons of insane speculation threads like that one.

2 hours ago, Kieransi said:

No, I also think Kylo is right and it's a nice plot twist to have a completely random new person who's not related to anyone else. Star Wars was getting a little inbred.

I was just saying that I'm pretty sure we'll start to see tons of insane speculation threads like that one.

I think maybe I wasn’t clear. I believe Kylo’s explanation of Rey’s past. I think he pulled it out of her head and coerced her to admit a truth she’d been self-denying. The detail I mentioned from Before the Awakening supports this.

Yes we will continue to see fan theories, even though the answer we have is a good one.

On 12/17/2017 at 9:30 PM, treybert said:

I think accomplishing nothing was the point. Everyone in the movie accomplished nothing. Or at least, everyone failed. When thinking on those terms, the movie ends up making a lot of sense.

Poe lost their entire bomber fleet.

Finn/Rose didn't save the day

Rey failed in turning Kylo

Kylo failed in recruiting Rey

Luke failed Ben.

Luke even failed at burning a tree.

In the end, the resistance is what, 20 people? Less?

I've been skimming these posts, so I might have missed it... but the boy in the end, he had the force right?

Agreed that this movie was all about everyone failing on all sides......but that just makes for a lacking movie. There is no resolve, no release for the audience, **** there is barely a story.

They had all of TFA to build off of and want we get is a slow moving chase that we are supposed to believe only takes all of less than a day? If that is the case then the time line of how long Rey "trains" with Luke and then somehow makes it to Snoke's (joke's) ship doesn't add up.

The Subpolt with Finn and Rose was moot/ not needed

Rose as a character is useless...anything she could have done could have been accomplished by BB8

Phasma goes out like a punk....again, even though she is supposed to be this combat monster.

Holdo as the worst military comander of all time....Well maybe the forst order had the numbers and couldhave just jumoed ahead waited and destroyed the entire Rebel fleet.

The entire "chase" sceen was devoid of any suspense

The plot armor around Finn is thicker than the door the rebels were hiding behind

And then the poor use of Luke in the movie.....jedi master to cranky hermit in one wardrobe change.

On ‎18‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 1:51 PM, Hobojebus said:

Well now disney owns fox they have the rights back so can now release the original movies, before fox owned the release rights to the theatrical cuts.

I'd love to bin the special edition DVDs I own.

Sweet! yeah, I'd love to see the OT in the cinema, like my father before me.*

*Now we did see the special editions together in the theather when they came out, and I have the double disk DVD with the Original versions on disc 2.

I enjoyed the film, I mostly looked at it from the standpoint of character development instead of moving the story forward.

-I actually liked the concept of Luke's self-imposed downfall. He started to see a lot of the flaws that the Jedi Order had propagated over the years in the prequels and it made him doubt the very core of his being. He believes that he can simply explain away the concept of the Jedi to Rey, but soon finds that his concrete beliefs are only concrete because he never had to have anybody challenge him about them. Yoda was a great kick in the pants (although the magical survival of the Jedi books kind of took away from that whole scene). Honestly, I don't think I could have asked for a better ending for Luke. A completed circle started a long time ago, looking at the horizon with a sense of peace and serenity rather than waiting for the future to correct his present.

-Poe had a lot of growth in this as well. It was finally pointed out that when you have heroes smiling their way to victory while all their wingmen are engulfed in flames, that a won battle can take away your ability to win the war. This is really the first time we've seen this in Star Wars. There were plenty of X-Wings to fight at Yavin after Rougue One. There was still a large Rebel fleet after Hoth. And there was still a whole Rebel base on Yavin when the Rebels crew got their nose bloodied by Thrawn. This is the hallmark of what the Rebels should be; a group that is ONE devastating defeat away from being wiped out. A group that has to treasure each soldier and pilot that it has because a replacement won't be coming any time soon. Could Poe have taken out the portable Death Star gun? Maybe. But there'd have been next to nobody left to get into the Falcon at the end of the movie.

-Rey has matured quite a bit since the first movie, both as a written character and as an in-universe character. I'd imagine that TFA Rey would have landed on the planet, been turned down by Skywalker, proceeded to skim through the old books, then call herself a Jedi and leave. This Rey has to be shown the BASICS. It shows that she has raw talent alone but is totally ignorant of how to use it correctly. The Force to her was just an invisible form of her staff useful for beating people up with. As she learned the nature of the Force from Luke, her outward demeanor changed as well. No longer was Kylo just the bad bad monster to be destroyed, he was a person worth reaching out to and saving.

-Leia was a very commanding character. We actually saw her exhibiting a commanding presence instead of being the moral support/firebrand of a trio. It honestly looks like she was flexing the senatorial and royal muscles that she had been developing her whole life. When she speaks, people listen. A great final role for CF.

-Kylo is no longer the torn little child that he was in TFA. He set aside (violently) his Vader cosplay and started to create a persona for himself rather than trying to harness what worked for grandpa. The conflict within him seemed genuine. He was getting pulled to both sides but in the end decided to create his own world rather than help others to create theirs. He's out to take what he wants which, while making him less complex as a character, sets the final film up to have an actual bad guy instead of a wishy washy fence sitter as the boss.

There were however things I generally disliked about the film.

-Ice Queen: I did like the manor in which Leia's death was a fakeout on the audience. We came into the movie knowing that the character had to end one way or another, and I assumed that the death was the movie's way of sending Leia off in a way that was easy to render with CGI and stick into the movie. A lot of Star Trek fans got pulled in the same way when Spock 'died' at the start of TWOK since it had been leaked that a major character would die in the film. All that being said, the way she pulled herself back was just baaaaaaaad. It went past the point of faking us out into the realm of disbelief. OK, her body is frozen solid and she's been unmoving and without Oxygen for a good 10-20 minutes. Oh wait, time to head back indoors, enough space for one day! I honestly don't know how they could have handled it better, but there needed to be an alternate way to bring her back.

-Unidentified Old Man of the Movie: This is more of a technical nag on my part but you once again have a guy taking center stage only to be totally unidentified. This works for extras or characters who are only there to move the plot along. But this guy climbed up out of the trench, exposed himself to the enemy, and calmly looked down his binos at them. He pretty much pulled the spotlight onto himself then walked off the stage. I'm sure we'll see some Cloverfieldesque explanation of who he is for the reasonable price of buying a book or comic. Or else they'll just explain him on the website in a way that makes it seem like he was a known character the whole time.

-The chase: I'll not go into the fact that Battlestar Galactica literally had an episode about a superior enemy force being able to track the good guys not long after they made their jump, but instead focus on the dullness of it. If there's one lesson that Star Trek learned in TWOK and promptly forgot in Nemesis, it's that just having ships flying around in space shooting at each other is dull. You need a nebula in order to blind both parties or in BSG's case a short and tense countdown to the next battle. All this plotline gave us was verbal and visual displays of fuel. Nothing else tried to deliver the impending threat facing the Rebel flagship. On the other hand, this seems to be the only time in Star Wars outside of TFM that we've actually seen shields working. I think the whole series saved up their shield energy for this one ship so that it would be totally unscratched.

-Not enough R2D2: I get that you need to give BB his time in the sun, but having R2 wake up from his coma just to move the plot along is getting tiresome. We've seen that both droids, while somewhat similar in personality, have distinct differences and it would be refreshing to see the two of them interact more.

-And speaking of comas...: This trilogy so far really likes to put characters in suspended animation when they don't need to be in the plot. Want some time without Leia? Put her in a coma. Want there to be a loss of a new major character without killing them? Put Finn into a coma. Want to show that Finn has romantic feelings for a girl? Put her in a coma. And don't forget to have somebody blatantly say that 'they're unconscious but they're going to make it!' so that the audience doesn't have to wonder whether they're dead or not.

-Hope Solo: Leia threw around the word 'hope' waaaaaaay too much in this movie. I'm pretty sure it broke the threshold for it to turned into a drinking game to take a shot whenever she says it. It's like somebody read the script of RO while filming this, saw the 'Rebellions are built on hope' line, and ran a double marathon with it. Leia has a tender side to her, but she isn't the type to be pining for a bright future to fall into her lap, she's blasting air vents out to create her own solution to the problem of being cornered in a detention block.

-Where's Lando?: Another personal nit. You have a guy who is apparently a scoundrel, has quite a few tricks up his sleeves when dealing with the First Order, is apparently quite the charmer, AND is hanging out in a gambling establishment? Could Disney not afford to hire Billy Dee for the 10 seconds that the actual hacker was shown onscreen? That kind of humor, far from being slapstick, would give the audience a treat to an old character while showing that they aren't going to always magic themselves into the plot by being in the right place at the right time. Yes, Finn and Rose COULD have gotten Lando on their team to comment on how he makes the First Order uniform look good and piss Finn off by putting moves on Rose and telling her about HIS heroism, but they got caught so had to settle for the consolation prize while Lando focuses on winning and women over the two awkward strangers being tazed and arrested.

- 1 3 Ghosts: It was great to see Yoda again in his half crazy ESB self. But Luke had another mentor in his life and oh A FATHER who both became Force ghosts as well. This was Luke's last lesson to be learned in his life as a Jedi. Could he not hear from all 3 of them on how they reacted to failure? Have Obi-Wan talk of the number of times he had nearly given in to doubt in the years that he was watching over Luke while Anakin talks of how his failures consumed him but seeing his son nearly repeat those failures prompted him to redeem himself to avoid the repetition of history. I'm not asking for a full blown prequel sitdown conversation, but the fate of the Jedi is kinda on the line here and the guy that you helped shape into the savior of the galaxy has been in a sulk for years. Are ghosts so busy that they can't take 5 minutes to make an appearance?

-Hux? More like Sux!: Oh General Hux, did we truly know thee? I'm not sure if it is due to popular politics or what, but Hux is now a parody of himself. He almost looked like a character out of Blue Milk Special who hyperexaggerates a minor trait to generate comedy. Indeed, he seems to have replaced Kylo as the overly immature character in the movies. Honestly have to wonder why Kylo didn't just off him and promote somebody a bit less loudmouthed to head the military? Give this guy a reason to be in charge besides an amusing figurehead for Snoke.

All in all, I give the film a 7/10. Some of the slapstick was misplaced and some sideplots were unneeded, but the middle story of a trilogy is about growing the characters so that they can face the climax of the plot. Most of the characters seem to have accomplished this so I'd say the movie achieved its primary goal. A lack of horribly written relationships puts this movie ahead of at least half the franchise.

6 hours ago, flyboymb said:

-Hux? More like Sux!: Oh General Hux, did we truly know thee? I'm not sure if it is due to popular politics or what, but Hux is now a parody of himself.

Hux's scenes really were more Spaceballs than Star Wars.

7 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Hux's scenes really were more Spaceballs than Star Wars.

Poe said it best:

Poe: "I'm looking for general Huggs."

Hux: "This is General Hux."

Poe: "No I need General Huggs. Is he there? I'll wait."

Hux "I'm General HUX! Can he hear me?"

Everyone else on the bridge of Hux's star destroyer: "Seriously?"

No one pointed out the fact that Kylo's lightsaber was pointing the wrong way in a panned out scene while facing Luke - he does the (ever so boring) hold your blade reversed attack then it pans out to show him holding his saber blade forwards only to cut to Luke then back again where he's holding his saber reversed before turning it forwards, one big edit error there! Along with close ups of their very bad unstable stance only to pan out to show them in a better stance.

The fight between the Praetorian guards was meh to much spinning rubbish.

Various scenes were not needed or to long like the opening which was cool until they dragged out the Poe Hux phone call, could have been shorter, Liea should have died once sucked out the damage ship it would have had more of an impact which it did until she flew back to the ship!

The casino planet and talking to Madz? was not really needed as with Jubba's laugh in the background he's dead already and yea as someone pointed out about the kids - prequels.

General Hux has lost what could have been like that of Moff Tarkin.

The island that Luke lived on didn't need silly nun like creatures as the force would've kept it in a fixed state.

The scenes after the capital ship gets sliced in twain with Finn and Phasma were not needed and the whole BB-8 riding a walker? why!

With Rose, shes a plumber or mechanic or whatever she does and suddenly she flies ships/speeders and is the only person that seems to have checked all the stuff in the base they hide out in.

Finn should've destroyed the ram gun but died in the process.

Also didn't much care for the plastic chicken scene.

I did much like the light speed ship destruction scene that was awesome.

Seeing Yoda as he was in the originals was great, Luke reminded me of my Dad, old grumpy dude hanging out on his land not really wanting to go anywhere but still helps out and does his thing.

The film overall was cool, some unanswered questions but that's Star Wars.

Mark looks like he wants to throttle Rian after the premiere

@FTS Gecko

I think there is a youtube vid out there titled "Mark Hamill hates star wars the last jedi"

1 hour ago, RedSkull said:

@FTS Gecko

I think there is a youtube vid out there titled "Mark Hamill hates star wars the last jedi"

There's quite a few of them to be honest. That footage from the premiere, though... in that video it's like night and day. Mark's excited before the premiere, is breathing heavily, looks shocked and angry afterwards. I'm not one to buy into conspiracy theories like that, but if they killed Luke off without telling him we're essentially looking at a guy with a broken heart there. Mark is as much a fan of Star Wars as anyone, and if that was his first time seeing the finished film, that's horrible.

22 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

There's quite a few of them to be honest. That footage from the premiere, though... in that video it's like night and day. Mark's excited before the premiere, is breathing heavily, looks shocked and angry afterwards. I'm not one to buy into conspiracy theories like that, but if they killed Luke off without telling him we're essentially looking at a guy with a broken heart there. Mark is as much a fan of Star Wars as anyone, and if that was his first time seeing the finished film, that's horrible.

To see the beofre and after of him very excited for opening night, then cut to the after math and seeing that look on Mark's face and almost like he was figthing back some anger with that heaving breathing. I wouldn't put it past this director that something was done in Post production. Just really sad to see his character wasted in such away

42 minutes ago, RedSkull said:

To see the beofre and after of him very excited for opening night, then cut to the after math and seeing that look on Mark's face and almost like he was figthing back some anger with that heaving breathing. I wouldn't put it past this director that something was done in Post production. Just really sad to see his character wasted in such away

Yep, the only thing I really took out of The Last Jedi is that Mark is still an incredible actor, and has so much to offer the franchise, not least his obvious passion.

You can't tell me there isn't room in the story for a mentor/father figure, or even for stories involving Luke outside the sequel trilogy. I've said it elsewhere, but between them Mark and Carrie's performances brought some real heart and soul to an otherwise heartless and soulless film.

Liked the movie, but it reminds me a lot of VI with the strong polarisation between good and bad. The good was exceptional, diverting a lot of expectations and developing characters in good ways. The bad was jarring with some ill-placed jokes, weird Marry Poppins Leia (in theory not a scene I'd object to, good to see Leia reveal some rudimentary force power only in the most dire circumstance, but those visuals just didn't work at all!), and some holes in the plot.

I loved Rose, a good take on the awkward and quirky trope with strong motivations and a good looking, but not hollywood beautful actress. In general I liked how the Resistance had a lot of ordinary people.

Hondo was good in retrospective, though really obnoxious. She was wrong not telling Poe about her plan, but since she was essentially planning for her death I can understand why she was so defensive. Probably didn't want to talk about it at all.

Kylo really developed and I believe that he might actually not be redeemable. In a nice bit of prequel consistency, his motivation for embracing the dark side is believing that he knows what's good for the galaxy better than its inhabitants, just like Vader. However Vader also had the fear for his loved one and family, the spark of good Luke recognized. Kylo doesn't have that and Luke may be right that no good is left in him. Oh and Kylo also knows spinning is a good trick, so he really is Vaders heir.

The Canto Bight set was very prequel-esque, which aesthetically isn't my favourite, but at least again offers some consistency - these people were always so rich that their lifestyle didn't need to change much from the old republic.

The ending leaves me wondering where IX will be going, and that is a good thing.

Neutral thing: Porgs win at being the cashgrab toybait, because they aren't as repulsive and weird as Gungans and to some extent Ewoks, and more importantly aren't essential to the story. No Porg senator accidentally enabeling space Hitler! No Porgs eating storm troopers!

The music was good, but mostly derivative of TFA themes. Still kind of on ANH level for me, as the magical is good with Reys theme (almost as good as the force theme), the exciting is better with the Resistance march. The celebratory is non-existant, but when learning from and coping with failure are the main themes of the movie, that is kind of to be expected.

Now some things annoyed me that aren't actual issues, like the kids, which were fine, but the prequels just burned me on Star Wars and child actors. I think it is even harder for a child to be convincing in such a phantastical setting. If they'll return I hope they are older.

Now, some of the jokes worked, but the constant barrage didn't help the movie at all. While I at least smirked at most, at some point I also rolled my eyes. Finn and Hux both deserved better developments or portrayals, even. In theory the agressive lack of self confidence among the FO is something that makes some sense, and it worked when Luke provoked Kylo into facing him (that's why I actually like how he just brushes off his shoulder, he knew that's how he could get at Kylo), but they just went too far, making him look like a joke. Finn just kind of went nowhere.

Finally the pacing of the movie wasn't great. I often rather wanted to to stick with one arc when it switched another, especially when the one the movie went to moved so slow!

I enjoyed my time with TLJ and am looking forward to IX, so overall it is a success for me, but I also have some issues, more than with TFA. I also enjoyed it more anyways? I'll definitly have to see it again to place it better.