Ok for some reason that posted without my writing:

True...

And not only no one knows who redirected Ebon, who would have redirected someone who claimed Investigator?

For some reason that posted without text:

True...

And regarding it being a scum action, I think that an action no one claimed (at least until now) against the claimed investigator is much more likely to happen from scum

And if we agree that scum hacked Ebon, then can we also agree that there are two potential reasons.

1) Ebon is reasonably predictable, so one of me, broba, jj, pod or Mr.Toad wanted to protect ourselves. Clearly not Broba though.

2) f***wittery to incriminate me and cast suspicion in my direction. Didnt work if it was this as I saw it a mile off.

And on the basis of this can we narrow the suspects for today down to Me, JJ, Pod and Mr.Toad to make it easier to reach a good conclusion after thorough investigation?Streamline our approaches together as it were.

1 minute ago, Ginkapo said:

And if we agree that scum hacked Ebon, then can we also agree that there are two potential reasons.

1) Ebon is reasonably predictable, so one of me, broba, jj, pod or Mr.Toad wanted to protect ourselves. Clearly not Broba though.

2) f***wittery to incriminate me and cast suspicion in my direction. Didnt work if it was this as I saw it a mile off.

And on the basis of this can we narrow the suspects for today down to Me, JJ, Pod and Mr.Toad to make it easier to reach a good conclusion after thorough investigation?Streamline our approaches together as it were.

Man that's dangerous. . . I more or less agree with you, but dang, if you are scum, you are so nicely protecting your compatriots, and at the same time pointing to your innocence, thereby implicating only the other three.

3 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Man that's dangerous. . . I more or less agree with you, but dang, if you are scum, you are so nicely protecting your compatriots, and at the same time pointing to your innocence, thereby implicating only the other three.

Yup. Exactly. I know I am town so not bothered at all by this.

But this is why I am laying it out so clear so that I am not leading everyone unknowingly down such a path without awareness.

On 12/19/2017 at 5:10 PM, Ginkapo said:

Will leave work in around an hour so nothing substantial till then.

However, given my position.

I am the runner hacker who redirected Ebon to Rajam.

I chose to redirect someone I found to be scummy and also expected to be one of the most vocal about their results so I could kill two birds with one stone as it were. I wasnt sure if my target would know they were redirected or not so a vocal player is even more important.

I chose Rajam because I couldnt get a read on him so wanted Ebon to get something if possible.

Yes I can still be pissed of with stupid play when I specifically targetted Ebon because I expected stupid play. This has been royally stupid play.

Quick question here:

You chose to redirect Ebon, hoping he'd announce his results so you could get a read on him, and you redirected him to Rajam, to get Ebon's read on him , Why then are you annoyed that he did exactly what you hoped? What specifically took it from announcing results (something you expected and sought after) to stupid?

4 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Quick question here:

You chose to redirect Ebon, hoping he'd announce his results so you could get a read on him, and you redirected him to Rajam, to get Ebon's read on him , Why then are you annoyed that he did exactly what you hoped? What specifically took it from announcing results (something you expected and sought after) to stupid?

I hoped he would. Doesnt mean he isnt really stupid to do it. Just because I played to the contingency of poor play doesnt mean I should celebrate it.

D1 redirect should have been of little to no use whatsoever, surfacing around D3 to help the later game. I didnt say I expected immediate results, just reliably faster than others.

Put someone like Mad in Ebons shoes. He could easily go the whole game without announcing his result because he sees it of no benefit to town and putting a target on his own head to be a hinderance to town.

Ebon never specifically breadcrumbed investigator on day one tho did he fam?

you had hoped he was a killer when you sent him after raj?

when that failed you voted raj off instead.

Good point about mad tho....

Also: Redirecting Ebon is not a specifically scum move. He stated he was not a padawan. Therefore he could be either side. As Gink said, announcing his results Day 2 was, most likely, not a good idea. Therefore, why would somebody trust him? However unlikely it is, it ought to be acknowledged that it is possible that a town hacker redirected Ebon to what the hacker thought was a scummy character (i.e. CNinja).

It is also possible that a town hacker who figured Ebon would check Gink redirected him to get another person's results, rather than learn that Gink is, as he claims, a hacker.

That said, I agree that most likely it was a scum hacker.

I feel pretty confident it was a scumhacker. There are the reasons already stated by others, but also I’m pretty sure ebon is town. I question their motivations tho, and I dont think rdring him was a way to protect themselves. As I already stated, Ebon isnt a threat to scum in this setup unless he has the oportunity to disprove a fakeclaim, and the only claims we have are his own (proven as to role, faction not proven but IMO may as well be) and Ginks. And Gink has proven that he can rdr, and that ebon wasnt his target, in so much as one can. There is still a possibilty that Ard/Gink are scum buddies, and we cant prove or disprove that without a padawan scan result, which shouldnt be volunteered at this point, imo, unless one is scum.

My other theory, and I believe it was mentioned already, is that since there are no scum roles threatened by ebon, they may have simply redirected him to scan one of their own. If they have a scum pilot, having ebon redirected to scan him on a run night does three things;

1. Leads town to believe the targeted player was town.

2. Proves the scanned player is not an infiltrator.

3. Guarantees the one shot run command isnt wasted.

So, to cover our bases, we should look closely at Cninjas history, and draw a conclusion as to his allegiance independent of this result.

2 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

And if we agree that scum hacked Ebon, then can we also agree that there are two potential reasons.

1) Ebon is reasonably predictable, so one of me, broba, jj, pod or Mr.Toad wanted to protect ourselves. Clearly not Broba though.

2) f***wittery to incriminate me and cast suspicion in my direction. Didnt work if it was this as I saw it a mile off.

And on the basis of this can we narrow the suspects for today down to Me, JJ, Pod and Mr.Toad to make it easier to reach a good conclusion after thorough investigation?Streamline our approaches together as it were.

I’m ok with this, since you named two of my strongest scum reads in Pod and Toad.

2 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

And if we agree that scum hacked Ebon, then can we also agree that there are two potential reasons.

1) Ebon is reasonably predictable, so one of me, broba, jj, pod or Mr.Toad wanted to protect ourselves. Clearly not Broba though.

2) f***wittery to incriminate me and cast suspicion in my direction. Didnt work if it was this as I saw it a mile off.

And on the basis of this can we narrow the suspects for today down to Me, JJ, Pod and Mr.Toad to make it easier to reach a good conclusion after thorough investigation?Streamline our approaches together as it were.

What about Nips, Mad, and Vis? What clears them for investigation?

7 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

Hinted by Ebon, then very quickly responded to by Pod. Had he already been thinking about deflecting Ebons scan?

Its another freudian slip to confirm someone as town without any reason at all.

Gink you’re really good at taking things out of context and twisting them to fit your agenda... I never said Ard was a confirmed townie, I said he claimed it, I then immediately realized my mistake, that he was not claiming to be a hacker but rather that he was hacked...

2 hours ago, PodRacer said:

Good point about mad tho....

How so? I mean I appreciate Ginks words, but I was held up as an example to make a point that didnt actually have anything to do with me.

1 hour ago, Madaghmire said:

My other theory, and I believe it was mentioned already, is that since there are no scum roles threatened by ebon, they may have simply redirected him to scan one of their own. If they have a scum pilot, having ebon redirected to scan him on a run night does three things;

1. Leads town to believe the targeted player was town.

2. Proves the scanned player is not an infiltrator.

3. Guarantees the one shot run command isnt wasted.

So, to cover our bases, we should look closely at Cninjas history, and draw a conclusion as to his allegiance independent of this result.

So your theory is a scum teammate redirected Ebon onto me, and I run, hoping that Ebon scans me?

If Ebon was scum that might make sense, but then no actual stuff would have to happen.

2 hours ago, PodRacer said:

Ebon never specifically breadcrumbed investigator on day one tho did he fam?

you had hoped he was a killer when you sent him after raj?

when that failed you voted raj off instead.

I mean, if this is accurate, then it could easily be a town gambit. Especially if Gink read Raj as scum. And he was able to make a pretty persuasive case for it, so that seems a reasonable assumption.

(Btw I'm not scum )

9 minutes ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

So your theory is a scum teammate redirected Ebon onto me, and I run, hoping that Ebon scans me?

If Ebon was scum that might make sense, but then no actual stuff would have to happen.

It wouldn't make sense if Ebon, you, and a hacker were all scum. Why go through the elaborate charade? It only makes sense assuming Ebon is town.

Just now, CaribbeanNinja said:

So your theory is a scum teammate redirected Ebon onto me, and I run, hoping that Ebon scans me?

If Ebon was scum that might make sense, but then no actual stuff would have to happen.

Ebons alignment in the scenario I laid has to be town, or they wouldnt bother to redirect him. And for what its worth, I haven’t gotten a scum read off you, (although if JJ flips town you wont look so good given yesterdays interaction).

And you wouldn’t be “hoping” Ebon scans you. You would KNOW Ebon would scan you, and you would be reasonably certain that those results would come to light the following day, serving the interest of scum by effeciently using the night actions availble to them while similtaneously preventing Ebon from doing the things his ability is good for, which is verifying a town Padawan or Vig, or disproving a fake claim. It is also possible they trusted Ebon to blab his results and were using his scan to hunt those roles.

Point being, we shouldn’t allow Ebons result to influence how we view your potential alignment, as it is well within the realm of possibilty thats just what scum wants us to do. Better for us to view things through the only lens we can be sure is untainted.

I’m going to look at the fab four Gink outlines and see what kind of case I can make against each.

17 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

I’m going to look at the fab four Gink outlines and see what kind of case I can make against each.

Don't forget Gink. He's less of a suspect, but by his own admission, he still is one.

19 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

I’m going to look at the fab four Gink outlines and see what kind of case I can make against each.

As long as I’m George, Pod makes a good Ringo.

3 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Don't forget Gink. He's less of a suspect, but by his own admission, he still is one.

Oh rest assured, I have not. I’m looking at all four parties.