I'm thinking this is a no but...

Extra munitions states "When you are instructed to discard an upgrade card, you may discard a token instead" If I choose to discard the card first, can I use it again an then discard the token? I figure the card being discarded means the token no longer has an effect unless the card is returned. But I wanted to get the opinion of others. Since discarding just means it is flipped over, it is still there.

Furthermore, even if the token can't be used when the card is flipped, does the token remain on the card, or does 'discarding' the card remove the token regardless?

Normally there would be no reason to do this. But with the Star Wing, it would make tactical sense to use the card, flip it, use the card, flip it, etc.. but keep the token just in case you need to fire a missile and can't or don't want to reload it.

Why would you want to discard the card before the token?

Anyway, I think this would apply.

Quote

Boba Fett (page 16 of the FAQ)

If Boba Fett is used to discard an Upgrade card that has an ordnance or illicit token on it, the opposing player can discard the token instead of discarding the card. If Boba Fett is used to discard cards such as Extra Munitions or Jabba the Hutt, any previously placed ordnance or illicit tokens can still be used for their effects .

7 hours ago, Parravon said:

Anyway, I think this would apply.

It doesn't. That only means that other tokens still function. It says nothing about whether a token on a card is discarded when the card is discarded.

9 hours ago, Parravon said:

Why would you want to discard the card before the token?

Anyway, I think this would apply.

No, it doesn't.

It says that if you lose Jabba or EM, the Jabba/EM tokens on other cards don't stop working.

There is no RAW on what happens to tokens on cards which are discarded, because there's previously never been a good reason to discard the card before the token. The precedent might have been Cikatro, but the FAQ for that that is silent on what happens to Illicit tokens on swapped Illicits.

FFG: never one to clarify obvious questions without months of prompting.

There was a discussion earlier what happens with focus tokens on Rey (crew) if Boba Fett discards the card, and the conclusion was that since the rules doesn't say that they are removed and non-double sided cards are flipped face down when discarded, the tokens stays on the card.

I think this would mean that you could flip the card the first time you fire a missile/torpedo, reload and then use the EM-token the next time.

11 hours ago, Parravon said:

Why would you want to discard the card before the token?

The reload action will flip a card back over, but does not restore the EM token. Say I am running a Star Wing Os-1 with Cruise missiles, Extra Munitions, and Advanced slam.

Round 1 of the engagement I lock on, and fire the missile. I flip the card instead of using the token. Next round I slam around a double 2 turn, perform a reload action and fire again at the same target. My weapons are disabled, but since I have a target lock, the shot is allowed. Again I flip the card instead of using the token. Now maybe I am behind the target. I continue to pursue, reload, fire again and again flip the card. Target destroyed. Next turn I have a target behind me. So I slam for a double 3 and have them in range, but since I don't have a target lock I can't fire, weapons are disabled from the slam. If I can use the token on a face down card, just this one time I can lock on with my free action from advanced slam instead of reloading and still get the shot off with the token.

Flipping the card is reusable resource thanks to reload. The EM token is a 1 shot use, so you preserve it until you need it.

Thematically, the token represents another shot. But rules wise I don't know if it still works because if the card it is attached to is face down, does it still function?

20 minutes ago, Yearfire said:

There was a discussion earlier what happens with focus tokens on Rey (crew) if Boba Fett discards the card, and the conclusion was that since the rules doesn't say that they are removed and non-double sided cards are flipped face down when discarded, the tokens stays on the card.

I think this would mean that you could flip the card the first time you fire a missile/torpedo, reload and then use the EM-token the next time.

Thanks, that at least give a clear precedent for the token not being discarded when the card is expended.

It's not a remotely official ruling...

2 hours ago, xbeaker said:

The reload action will flip a card back over, but does not restore the EM token. Say I am running a Star Wing Os-1 with Cruise missiles, Extra Munitions, and Advanced slam.

Round 1 of the engagement I lock on, and fire the missile. I flip the card instead of using the token. Next round I slam around a double 2 turn, perform a reload action and fire again at the same target. My weapons are disabled, but since I have a target lock, the shot is allowed. Again I flip the card instead of using the token. Now maybe I am behind the target. I continue to pursue, reload, fire again and again flip the card. Target destroyed. Next turn I have a target behind me. So I slam for a double 3 and have them in range, but since I don't have a target lock I can't fire, weapons are disabled from the slam. If I can use the token on a face down card, just this one time I can lock on with my free action from advanced slam instead of reloading and still get the shot off with the token.

Flipping the card is reusable resource thanks to reload. The EM token is a 1 shot use, so you preserve it until you need it.

Thematically, the token represents another shot. But rules wise I don't know if it still works because if the card it is attached to is face down, does it still function?

I don't think this would work. Absent an official ruling to the contrary I don't have a problem with saying the tokens stay on the flipped down card, but I don't think you can use the token WHILE the card is flipped down. The tokens say you can discard them instead "when you are instructed to discard a munition" the problem is if you'be already discarded the munitions then there's no text telling you to discard, or even what the munitions is at this point. Thematically, yes the tokens are acting as a second copy of that card but rules wise that's not how they work.

If you did want to flip the card instead of discarding the token the use would be more like "I have a shot this round but based on ship position I probably won't next round, so I'll flip the card and keep the token with the intention of reloading next round." If you think you will have a shot next round you go ahead and ditch the token so you can use your action to get the target lock you'll need to fire.

Whether it's worth 2 points in your squad for that function is up to you, but that's how it would need to work I'm pretty sure.

9 minutes ago, sharrrp said:

I don't think this would work. Absent an official ruling to the contrary I don't have a problem with saying the tokens stay on the flipped down card, but I don't think you can use the token WHILE the card is flipped down. The tokens say you can discard them instead "when you are instructed to discard a munition" the problem is if you'be already discarded the munitions then there's no text telling you to discard, or even what the munitions is at this point. Thematically, yes the tokens are acting as a second copy of that card but rules wise that's not how they work.

If you did want to flip the card instead of discarding the token the use would be more like "I have a shot this round but based on ship position I probably won't next round, so I'll flip the card and keep the token with the intention of reloading next round." If you think you will have a shot next round you go ahead and ditch the token so you can use your action to get the target lock you'll need to fire.

Whether it's worth 2 points in your squad for that function is up to you, but that's how it would need to work I'm pretty sure.

This is pretty much how I see it as well. But on the forums there are far better rules lawers than I. So I was hoping maybe there was a precedent.

5 hours ago, xbeaker said:

The reload action will flip a card back over, but does not restore the EM token. Say I am running a Star Wing Os-1 with Cruise missiles, Extra Munitions, and Advanced slam.

Round 1 of the engagement I lock on, and fire the missile. I flip the card instead of using the token. Next round I slam around a double 2 turn, perform a reload action and fire again at the same target. My weapons are disabled, but since I have a target lock, the shot is allowed. Again I flip the card instead of using the token. Now maybe I am behind the target. I continue to pursue, reload, fire again and again flip the card. Target destroyed. Next turn I have a target behind me. So I slam for a double 3 and have them in range, but since I don't have a target lock I can't fire, weapons are disabled from the slam. If I can use the token on a face down card, just this one time I can lock on with my free action from advanced slam instead of reloading and still get the shot off with the token.

Flipping the card is reusable resource thanks to reload. The EM token is a 1 shot use, so you preserve it until you need it.

Thematically, the token represents another shot. But rules wise I don't know if it still works because if the card it is attached to is face down, does it still function?

I think the tokens are useless on flipped-down cards, but not removed. There's nothing which says the token has to be discarded first, or that it's removed if flipped down.

I think it'd work to (discard the card not the token), (reload), (then have a missile with the token for two shots without reloading).

However, I have absolutely zero reason to think you could shoot with a discarded weapon but non-discarded token. There simply isn't an upgrade to use.

11 hours ago, Yearfire said:

There was a discussion earlier what happens with focus tokens on Rey (crew) if Boba Fett discards the card, and the conclusion was that since the rules doesn't say that they are removed and non-double sided cards are flipped face down when discarded, the tokens stays on the card.

I think this would mean that you could flip the card the first time you fire a missile/torpedo, reload and then use the EM-token the next time.

Rey is the crew who lets you assign a focus on your ship at the start of combat. If Boba discards Rey, then the ability is gone, regardless of whether there are tokens remaining on the card or not. The tokens can stay there, but you can't assign them without Rey's ability from the card.

Likewise, if a munitions card has already been discarded (flipped over) - the ability to discard the token "instead" of the munition is gone - because the munitions card IS what provides the instruction to discard. Not the token.

35 minutes ago, USCGrad90 said:

Rey is the crew who lets you assign a focus on your ship at the start of combat. If Boba discards Rey, then the ability is gone, regardless of whether there are tokens remaining on the card or not. The tokens can stay there, but you can't assign them without Rey's ability from the card.

Likewise, if a munitions card has already been discarded (flipped over) - the ability to discard the token "instead" of the munition is gone - because the munitions card IS what provides the instruction to discard. Not the token.

Yes, but if you then use reload to flip the munition back again, you would still have the extra munitions token, and are able to spend it the next time you fire the missile.

2 hours ago, Yearfire said:

Yes, but if you then use reload to flip the munition back again, you would still have the extra munitions token, and are able to spend it the next time you fire the missile.

No issue with that, but the idea of spending the EM token to fire a missle with the card flipped down is what I take issue with. Sorry I didn't clarify that on quoting your post.