Because bids are for sissies. Squadrons too. If I run into bombers, either it’s time to flak or just go in with everything. Any recommended changes/potential flaws (besides the fact it will likely get slaughtered by aceholes?)

Raider’s Big Brother

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 400/400

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

[ flagship ] Imperial Star Destroyer Kuat Refit (112 points)
- Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points)
- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
- Flechette Torpedoes ( 3 points)
= 150 total ship cost

Imperial Star Destroyer Kuat Refit(112 points)
- Darth Vader ( 3 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
- Flechette Torpedoes ( 3 points)
= 127 total ship cost

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)
- Demolisher ( 10 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- External Racks ( 3 points)
= 73 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

LOve it. I am beyond excited for flechette Kuats (especially with Kallus). Isd one with a native d-retro and better flak vs squads? Yes please

How is Vader 3 points?

24 minutes ago, Pizza Guy said:

How is Vader 3 points?

Boarding team.

the admiral is Moff Jj

I understand the Gozantis are there to feed tokens and provide some activation padding...but you could consider dropping both and throwing in a Raider spec'd for anti-squadron duty.

Here's the big issue you are going to run into (not like you already don't know this), any sort of heavy squadron list or bomber list is going to just park everything they have in the front arc of your ISDs (or whatever arc they can concentrate it). Sure, you're ISDs can do decent against squads, but you'll have to pick between swatting the flies that are nickel and diming your shields and potentially your hull, or going for the ships commanding them. In that scenario, are you going to waste your big attack opportunity to attack squads? No, then your anti-squadron stuff is worthless. By running a scary flak boat dedicated to squadron killing and flying him in formation between the big guys, you force their fighters to either engage your squadron killer and get in the side arcs of the ISDs, attack your ISDs from the sides, or ignore your flak boat, park in the ISD front arc and let you do some actual squadron killing. Either way it allows the ISDs to focus on ships while taking opportunity shots at squads.

I'd maybe even clear the anti-squadron stuff off the ISDs and just really focus the Raider as your flak boat.

18 minutes ago, kmanweiss said:

I understand the Gozantis are there to feed tokens and provide some activation padding...but you could consider dropping both and throwing in a Raider spec'd for anti-squadron duty.

Here's the big issue you are going to run into (not like you already don't know this), any sort of heavy squadron list or bomber list is going to just park everything they have in the front arc of your ISDs (or whatever arc they can concentrate it). Sure, you're ISDs can do decent against squads, but you'll have to pick between swatting the flies that are nickel and diming your shields and potentially your hull, or going for the ships commanding them. In that scenario, are you going to waste your big attack opportunity to attack squads? No, then your anti-squadron stuff is worthless. By running a scary flak boat dedicated to squadron killing and flying him in formation between the big guys, you force their fighters to either engage your squadron killer and get in the side arcs of the ISDs, attack your ISDs from the sides, or ignore your flak boat, park in the ISD front arc and let you do some actual squadron killing. Either way it allows the ISDs to focus on ships while taking opportunity shots at squads.

I'd maybe even clear the anti-squadron stuff off the ISDs and just really focus the Raider as your flak boat.

I’ve got to remember to stop making threads when I’m out of likes; this is an excellent point to address. My logic on this is as follows: Any list with enough squadrons to actually threaten me has invested a significant chunk of its overall damage potential there. With a Sloane list, I’d prioritize the combat ship(s), since the TIE aces on their own are fairly flak resistant and poor damage dealers vs an RBD ISD. With aceholes I’d flak as a first priority, since the threat isn’t Yavaris or Gallant Haven; it’s the squadrons. If I get no shot on any of their ships that’s okay; they can’t effectively hit me either, and Demo’s hopefully doing something. This line of thought hasn’t been tested yet, though, and I like the idea of having a raider. Perhaps I can add Governor Pryce somehow to compensate for the activation loss.

How's this for a completely different take...

Double ISD-Instigator
Author: RobertK

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 387/400

Commander: Admiral Ozzel

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Fleet Ambush
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
- Instigator ( 4 points)
- External Racks ( 3 points)
= 51 total ship cost

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
- Avenger ( 5 points)
- Boarding Troopers ( 3 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 122 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Imperial Star Destroyer Cymoon 1 Refit (112 points)
- Admiral Ozzel ( 20 points)
- Relentless ( 3 points)
- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points)
- Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points)
= 156 total ship cost

5 TIE Bomber Squadrons ( 45 points)
1 Valen Rudor ( 13 points)

Commentary: Aceholes? Meet Valen-Bomber-Instigator nonsense. With the GHBubble-aces shooting TIE Bombers so they can get after the Raider that vexes them, two ISDs are bearing down on Gallant Haven and Yavaris. One of them is a BTAvenger. Cymoon loves shooting at long range with its 5 red dice, and its GT-H9-DTT combo is trouble for flotillas. So yuh...this one takes a different approach. Lock down their squads to kill the carriers (especially the Gallant Haven lynchpin). Against non-aceholes, the list has Bombers and 2 ISDs. What could go wrong!?

36 minutes ago, RobertK said:

Commentary: Aceholes? Meet Valen-Bomber-Instigator nonsense. With the GHBubble-aces shooting TIE Bombers so they can get after the Raider that vexes them, two ISDs are bearing down on Gallant Haven and Yavaris. One of them is a BTAvenger. Cymoon loves shooting at long range with its 5 red dice, and its GT-H9-DTT combo is trouble for flotillas. So yuh...this one takes a different approach. Lock down their squads to kill the carriers (especially the Gallant Haven lynchpin). Against non-aceholes, the list has Bombers and 2 ISDs. What could go wrong!?

An interesting approach. Bear in mind this isn’t a discussion on how to counter aceholes (we’ve got a huge thread on that going right now,) but for no squadrons flechette Kuats to be a good fleet in general. i.e. How would this fare against Sloane/Doom pickle flotilla spam/MC30s etc.? That said, versus aceholes, how will you protect Instigator? They can Intel Valen and target the Raider. You’d have to somehow trap the intel squad out of range of Valen while keeping Valen engaged with the other squads. If you can do that, they’ve screwed up. Is there something I’m missing?

OE > LS on the ISDs. Especially if you're going to rely on those FleshTorps for squadron cover.

15 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

I’ve got to remember to stop making threads when I’m out of likes; this is an excellent point to address. My logic on this is as follows: Any list with enough squadrons to actually threaten me has invested a significant chunk of its overall damage potential there. With a Sloane list, I’d prioritize the combat ship(s), since the TIE aces on their own are fairly flak resistant and poor damage dealers vs an RBD ISD. With aceholes I’d flak as a first priority, since the threat isn’t Yavaris or Gallant Haven; it’s the squadrons. If I get no shot on any of their ships that’s okay; they can’t effectively hit me either, and Demo’s hopefully doing something. This line of thought hasn’t been tested yet, though, and I like the idea of having a raider. Perhaps I can add Governor Pryce somehow to compensate for the activation loss.

Here's my thoughts.

Against a heavy squad focused list (sloan, aceholes, etc), if you focus the squads, are you going to be able to reliably kill enough before the combined squad/ship firepower take out one of your ISDs? If you ignore the squads and go for the carriers, can you absorb the combined hits while also doing enough ship damage. Gallant can likely tank a mid range shot from both of your ISDs. Yavaris can certainly hold out against 2 long range shots. But even in a squad heavy list, they have other dice to throw at you and the squads are going to be chewing you up. Even if you take out a carrier, they are still going to be swarmed on you. But you've thought that through and have a game plan, or at least some things to play test. You've already admitted though that this is an area of concern, so you are more worried about how it would do against others. The main concern is can you take out the squads or ships before you lose an ISD

I think a fleet with a modest squad investment will be an even bigger problem for you. With the Sloan/Acehole builds, you just need to identify and focus on one or the other and prioritize it by threat. What about a fleet that isn't squadron heavy, but has some squads. 6 YT2400s, or a Yavaris, 3 B-wings, and a couple X-wing escorts. Norra and a couple cheap Y's. A carefully positioned small Rhymer ball. In these cases, you aren't likely to flak them in a turn, but they'll be a constant annoyance to you. At the same time, they'll still have significant ship presence so the idea of taking out the ships alone won't be easy.

Your other issue would be a strategic or interdictor fleet that forces you to play objectives that you aren't equipped to handle.

Against a fleet with a smaller (50 and under) screen that was just meant to keep bombers off their ships, now you have the upper hand.

2 hours ago, kmanweiss said:

Here's my thoughts.

Against a heavy squad focused list (sloan, aceholes, etc), if you focus the squads, are you going to be able to reliably kill enough before the combined squad/ship firepower take out one of your ISDs? If you ignore the squads and go for the carriers, can you absorb the combined hits while also doing enough ship damage. Gallant can likely tank a mid range shot from both of your ISDs. Yavaris can certainly hold out against 2 long range shots. But even in a squad heavy list, they have other dice to throw at you and the squads are going to be chewing you up. Even if you take out a carrier, they are still going to be swarmed on you. But you've thought that through and have a game plan, or at least some things to play test. You've already admitted though that this is an area of concern, so you are more worried about how it would do against others. The main concern is can you take out the squads or ships before you lose an ISD

I think a fleet with a modest squad investment will be an even bigger problem for you. With the Sloan/Acehole builds, you just need to identify and focus on one or the other and prioritize it by threat. What about a fleet that isn't squadron heavy, but has some squads. 6 YT2400s, or a Yavaris, 3 B-wings, and a couple X-wing escorts. Norra and a couple cheap Y's. A carefully positioned small Rhymer ball. In these cases, you aren't likely to flak them in a turn, but they'll be a constant annoyance to you. At the same time, they'll still have significant ship presence so the idea of taking out the ships alone won't be easy.

Your other issue would be a strategic or interdictor fleet that forces you to play objectives that you aren't equipped to handle.

Against a fleet with a smaller (50 and under) screen that was just meant to keep bombers off their ships, now you have the upper hand.

I plan to test the list at the next possible opportunity, and this is now the first thing I’ll be watching for in terms of performance, for potential tweaking. In the mean time, I’ve figured out how to fit a Raider in here too as per your suggestion, and that’s going to get tested too. Between then and now, I might actually drop Demo for the Gozantis, Pryce, GTs on the Kuats for flak (back to LS, though) and the Instigator title to pin them if they wander into the heart of the flak. Thanks so much, your suggestions have really been helpful!

Raider and His Big Brother

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 400/400

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault Objective: Blockade Run
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

[ flagship ] Imperial Star Destroyer Kuat Refit (112 points)
- Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points)
- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Flechette Torpedoes ( 3 points)
= 150 total ship cost

Imperial Star Destroyer Kuat Refit(112 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Flechette Torpedoes ( 3 points)
= 124 total ship cost

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)
- Demolisher ( 10 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 75 total ship cost

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Flechette Torpedoes ( 3 points)
= 51 total ship cost

@RobertK while Valen prevents squadron movement, He doesn't prevent squadrons attacking your ships.

26 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

@RobertK while Valen prevents squadron movement, He doesn't prevent squadrons attacking your ships.

Huh? Por que?

29 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

@RobertK while Valen prevents squadron movement, He doesn't prevent squadrons attacking your ships.

Sure he does, just like any squadron would via the engagement rules. The question might be whether Valen+Heavy squads would prevent you from attacking the ship. That has been discussed here, but hasn't been ruled on definitively. I'm in the camp that enemies would have to shoot the Heavies before they could shoot Valen or the ship. But I don't wanna derail this fine thread, so I will say no more.