Posted a review of PtU on rpg.net:
Purge the Unclean review
Meaty review and one that, unfortunately, confirms the impressions I had browsing through the book at the store.
Thanks
read the review. Pretty much agree with you; all of the scenarios have intrigueing aspects, but all are flawed.
Did you ever find out what was the over-arcing story thread here, leading from Illumination to these three adventures? I know that the tarot deck in Illumination is the same technology as the Joyous Choir uses, but still, what then?
Why does the Serrated Query want the Liber Daemonicus?
And how are they connected to the mutant rebellion on Sepheris Secundus?
The Laughing God said:
read the review. Pretty much agree with you; all of the scenarios have intrigueing aspects, but all are flawed.
Did you ever find out what was the over-arcing story thread here, leading from Illumination to these three adventures? I know that the tarot deck in Illumination is the same technology as the Joyous Choir uses, but still, what then?
Why does the Serrated Query want the Liber Daemonicus?
And how are they connected to the mutant rebellion on Sepheris Secundus?
*SPOILERS*
There really isn't any link between Illumination and the link between the three adventures is tenuous at best.
I'm really not sure why they want the book other than "they're evil."
And the Mutant terrorist leader was once a member of the Query and has since left to pursue worship of Chaos. The bombs that they use apparently use some of the funky SQ-spacial enlarger stuff that you see in RfyaT.
The Laughing God said:
read the review. Pretty much agree with you; all of the scenarios have intrigueing aspects, but all are flawed.
Did you ever find out what was the over-arcing story thread here, leading from Illumination to these three adventures? I know that the tarot deck in Illumination is the same technology as the Joyous Choir uses, but still, what then?
Why does the Serrated Query want the Liber Daemonicus?
And how are they connected to the mutant rebellion on Sepheris Secundus?
It's just a guess, but I suspect we would have seen more of the Serrated Query is Black Industries had retained the game. Under FFG, Haarlock seems to replaced them as the overarching sinister plotline for Dark Heresy adventures. (Unless there is a Haarlock - SQ link I know nothing about...)
Yeah, the SQ seem to have disappeared after BI closed down. I don't think they've been mentioned since.
Well, there are two mentions in the Radical's Handbook. Apparently two Oblationists very nearly wiped them out before "disappearing" (The Purgation of the Serrated Query p 114-115) and Inquisitor Natius Osrinn has the Serrated Query listed as an associate. Now they don't explain how he could be associated with them and not be a plain old traitor. In fact, they don't explain the link at all..
numb3rc said:
Well, there are two mentions in the Radical's Handbook. Apparently two Oblationists very nearly wiped them out before "disappearing" (The Purgation of the Serrated Query p 114-115) and Inquisitor Natius Osrinn has the Serrated Query listed as an associate. Now they don't explain how he could be associated with them and not be a plain old traitor.
The SQ are enough of a mystery that determining their nature is pretty much impossible for the Inquisition. Having them as allies doesn't necessarily mark an Inquisitor as a traitor, as he may simply be using them to further the interests of mankind. Hiring them as mercenaries, buying weapons from them, using them as a source of information etc. It's certainly suspicious, but another Inquisitor would have to work very hard to prove heresy.
macd21 said:
Having them as allies doesn't necessarily mark an Inquisitor as a traitor, as he may simply be using them to further the interests of mankind. Hiring them as mercenaries, buying weapons from them, using them as a source of information etc. It's certainly suspicious, but another Inquisitor would have to work very hard to prove heresy.
You need a thief to catch a thief. I am fairly convinced that even the Puritanical Inquisitors must sometimes use "shady" connections to further their aims. You don´t find the source of the local drug trade by just sitting and praying in the local Ecclesiarchy Shrine.
I do agree with the review. It was a source of great material but required a great deal of work and prep from me (as GM). I think the comment about all of the adventures feeling as if they had been "squeezed" or "chopped" to ensure they fitted into the page limit rings true.
RfyaT was trhe bets in my opinion. Whilst it may have led the players by the nose there were enough distractions and scenes" to keep the players engaged.
SoT was far too linear in my view and seemed like a string of combat encounters whith soem occasionaly sppoky momnets. The marine was nice falvour but ultimately served to draw the spotlight from the story and the pcs.
BH was okay. I had to work in some extra bits and alas my players were particularly on the ball for the game and ended up putting Morrir in an impossible position. I may write another entry to ask players views on how it went. Broadly speaking it didnt end the way it should have done because my players were ahead of the curve and I really had to think on my feet. No zombies, ulbrexis alive and morrirs head in a box....I'll explain later.
Aajav-Khan said:
macd21 said:
Having them as allies doesn't necessarily mark an Inquisitor as a traitor, as he may simply be using them to further the interests of mankind. Hiring them as mercenaries, buying weapons from them, using them as a source of information etc. It's certainly suspicious, but another Inquisitor would have to work very hard to prove heresy.
You need a thief to catch a thief. I am fairly convinced that even the Puritanical Inquisitors must sometimes use "shady" connections to further their aims. You don´t find the source of the local drug trade by just sitting and praying in the local Ecclesiarchy Shrine.
True, but if some of the possible background stories about the SQ are true then the Query is downright antagonistic to the Imperium. They're beyond just shady the way mutant or criminal organizations are. He could manipulate them, yes, but I'm surprised they're considered an ally or an associate.
numb3rc said:
True, but if some of the possible background stories about the SQ are true then the Query is downright antagonistic to the Imperium. They're beyond just shady the way mutant or criminal organizations are. He could manipulate them, yes, but I'm surprised they're considered an ally or an associate.
No matter how dangerous a group may be, there's always someone/thing worse... including other groups within the Imperium. If he needs to oppose other authority figures the SQ make perfect allies. In addition, he may simply be sympathetic to their philosophy, which isn't so much anti-Imperial as it is realistic. The SQ understand that the Imperium is based on falsehoods - something an Inquisitor might also come to recognise.
macd21 said:
No matter how dangerous a group may be, there's always someone/thing worse... including other groups within the Imperium. If he needs to oppose other authority figures the SQ make perfect allies. I
True. Picture the following. The Inquisitor has connections in the Sector criminal syndicate. While ultimately harmful to Imperial interests, its motivations are purely monetary not philosophical. The Chaos cult gaining ground on the other hand is a direct threat that must be dealt with. With a few chosen words the Inquisitor can convince the crime lords that its also in their interests to eliminate the cultists. "Those people are dangerous and attract the exactly wrong kind of attention. Do you want the Arbites to come and start causing mayhem? Or, pray tell, the Inquisition?"
Read the review, currently have a group going through RFYAT (very slowly, as is the nature of message boards). Now I'm strongly considering springing Tattered Fates or The House of Dust and Ash on them instead after reading this.
Snidesworth said:
Read the review, currently have a group going through RFYAT (very slowly, as is the nature of message boards). Now I'm strongly considering springing Tattered Fates or The House of Dust and Ash on them instead after reading this.
The scenarios can be salvaged with a little work. They just aren't really good as written. If you don't have time to fix the flaws then go with one of the other scenarios.
Have you run Edge of Darkness with them? Great scenario.
macd21 said:
The scenarios can be salvaged with a little work. They just aren't really good as written. If you don't have time to fix the flaws then go with one of the other scenarios.
Hi Macd21
good review, if a bit "spoiler heavy" at times
I perceived "Rejoice" the same way and managed to put down my notes (which open up option to some of the problems you adress in your review, especially the "talking out loud" of Shoal). They can be found in the following topic:
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=101&efcid=3&efidt=292161
P.S: No "hijack" intended. 
macd21 said:
The scenarios can be salvaged with a little work. They just aren't really good as written. If you don't have time to fix the flaws then go with one of the other scenarios.
Have you run Edge of Darkness with them? Great scenario.
I've got plenty of time. I'm just contemplating if I should spend it fixing the next two adventures in PtU or move the group straight onto missions that I have more confidence in.
As for Edge of Darkness, it was the first one I ran for them. Still my favourite scenario, I think.
The Serrated Querry is ultimately what ties Illumination plus the three adventures in Purge together. Their filthy heretical fingerprints are all over the plots and developments in all three, though hiding behind proxies and patsies. This was basically Black industries "evil mega-plot" getting introduced to the game. Besides the "because it is fun" thing, I think the overall point of Purge was for the characters to figure out that a mysterious and sinister organization called the Serrated Querry exists and that it is manipulating other organizations and meddling with powerful forces. Unfortunately BI apparently took the rest of the plotline with them into the grave...
Enter Haarlock.
Snidesworth said:
Read the review, currently have a group going through RFYAT (very slowly, as is the nature of message boards). Now I'm strongly considering springing Tattered Fates or The House of Dust and Ash on them instead after reading this.
I would say that before switching to "Tattered Fates" you should either "padd up" PtU ("pitty you"?) or should take "House of Dust and Ash". Especially, since "House" is sort of a "prelude" to TF.
But if you have the time, I would advise "padding PtU" instead of buying TF. It is a lot of money for very view page and TF has one flaw in common with "Baron Hopes"
WARNING! HEAVY SPOILER!
In both cases, you have a middle part where the pc run from A to B to get some exposition handed (by the "White Scholar") and a final part where the pc will spend much time tweedling their thumbs while the clock is ticking (literally!) and wait for something to happen.... which a three-way-final fight where they are best advised to stand back till only one site is standing & starting to mob up afterwards... well, if one can tell this "mobbing up".
Nice review matey. Of the 3 the only one i've not run is Baron Hopes simply cause I planned to rework it a lot before i'd run it. The other two though my players really enjoyed playing through.
In RfyaT my players enjoyed pomping about and since I ran a big group I went with 2 Nobles. The no Nobles in the underhive I resolved simply by stating no one would recognize them in rags compared to fancy noble gear, I mean personally I try to avoid at all cost players sitting about doing nothing. I didn't mod it too much and I have to agree with the easy shuffling from scene to scene. As luck would have it it was the 3rd adventure I ran so the players had some social skills so I'd advise that to others.
One of the biggest problems I mind having was the assassin chase bit. Using a map I had to sketch (as per what you mentioned about the **** escape route plotted out) I described what was happening and how the players positioned themselves before the meeting ended in them nearly killing off the assassin!
For SoT though I think I was fortunate enough to get through it on the "cool" factor of there being a Space Marine. I did add some extra encounters like automated gun turrets but I had no issue with an all out action spam, and being a group who played a lot of D&D dungeon bashing type adventures they loved it, they even asked to get a picture taken with the Sergeant as one the players had a pict recorder
The players as it would happen for the final encounter used only 1 of the holds deciding 2 was too much to cover and booby trapped all the doors with frag grenades or sealed them shut.
Was a nice bloody scrap it was!
ZillaPrime said:
The Serrated Querry is ultimately what ties Illumination plus the three adventures in Purge together. Their filthy heretical fingerprints are all over the plots and developments in all three, though hiding behind proxies and patsies. This was basically Black industries "evil mega-plot" getting introduced to the game. Besides the "because it is fun" thing, I think the overall point of Purge was for the characters to figure out that a mysterious and sinister organization called the Serrated Querry exists and that it is manipulating other organizations and meddling with powerful forces. Unfortunately BI apparently took the rest of the plotline with them into the grave...
While the SQ ties them together, it does so poorly. Their involvement in Rejoice is acceptable, as they are essentially the target of the PCs investigation, but the acolytes just stumble across their activities by chance in the other missions. The odds of the same acolytes happening upon them three times in a row is ludicrous, unless divine intervention is involved.
As I think I mentioned in my review, I think the SQ are better removed from the 2nd and 3rd missions.
macd21 said:
As I think I mentioned in my review, I think the SQ are better removed from the 2nd and 3rd missions.
!SPOILERS!
I would agree about that regarding "Shades of Twilight" (and "turning the scape goat" into inter-inquisition conflict) but in "Baron Hopes", I would not know if anyone "selling" the theme space-distorting technology makes more sense then simply sticking to an already established "probiertior". Unless, you change the whole afair into "the foul magics of chaos", which should not be to much of a twist for the mutants (huh-huh..twist...mutant...huh-huh).
[PURGE THE UNCLEAN SPOILER]
There is one very cool thing about the Serrated Query though, expressed in PtU: Eloeholth, whose name was revealed in ultracool manner by those Eldar Harlequins. That is one very tantalizing idea, which unfortunately is not done any justice by the three scenarios.
The Laughing God said:
[PURGE THE UNCLEAN SPOILER]
There is one very cool thing about the Serrated Query though, expressed in PtU: Eloeholth, whose name was revealed in ultracool manner by those Eldar Harlequins. That is one very tantalizing idea, which unfortunately is not done any justice by the three scenarios.
The SQ are indeed a very interesting antagonist for DH, but, as you say, the scenarios don't really do them justice, though I think that RfyaT isn't too bad as an introduction.
Just thought I'd provide a lone dissenting voice- for me, despite its flaws, PtU was my favorite trio of adventures to run barring Edge of Darkness (which is still such a great intro to the game). The Serrated Query is such a great over-arching bad guy that have their fingers in all sorts of schemes, my group loves to hate them. The adventures provide really good set pieces for groups to play around in.
I don't know, maybe its just me, but I find it easier and more rewarding to take very fleshed out adventures (and I do understand how some might call the plots railroad-esque as written- particularly the middle one) and modify them then to fill in all the details of some of the other adventures published. When I read through House of Ash or Tattered Fates... I don't feel inspired. I feel like I got half a product. *shrug*
I guess all I'm saying is that they can be great adventures as long as you're open enough to flexibly deal with the various ways your PC's might react. They have lots of noble allies and foes after the first scenario- and learned a valuable lesson about how its not always best to call in the cavalry (the metal-legged guy got away when they waited for a full group of arbites to raid him... though the cleric did amazingly wrest his important briefcase away from his augmented hands). They ultimately schemed with their inquisitor and the mechanicus to bring the Baron to power... by planting evidence and further falling into radicalism 
. And their currently dealing with Dark Eldar and the space marine captive they took before the space hulk was blown apart.