I've been mostly out of X-Wing for some time, but played recently with a friend who is big into it still and it has rekindled my interest to a degree.

I'm pretty much an Imperial-only player, Whisper is my muse. The dial and shenanigans that can be played with the Silencer are part of what got me interested again, but like a lot of people here, on first look and trying to build lists I can't for the life of me figure out why I'd play a Silencer ace over Quickdraw. The list I'd like to test is QD with VI/FCS/Threat Tracker/SOT/LWF backed by a pair of PS4 Silencers with FCS/AT/Primed Thrusters. I know that 6hp is apparently considered super fragile these days, but build a solid asteroid field and with the Primed Thrusters you can still adjust post-flip or into some neat blocking shenanigans.

Another option is drop a Silencer and the Primed Thrusters off the other and add Vessery with X7 and Adaptability. Its a super-light Vessery, but you have 2 FCS equipped ships (granted, you wont get the FCS from the Silencer until after Vessery but you can always TL if you really need it) still running 18hp with solid attacks.

1 hour ago, clanofwolves said:

Maybe, just maybe the game designers see their compounding error, and reign in the triple headed game eating monster of Regen, Turret, Red dice piles, and restore the joy.

Sounds like a christmas wish. May it be fulfilled.

15 hours ago, SirCormac said:

To be fair, I don't anyone thinks that 3-die, plus a reroll is terrible offense, in a vacuum, the problem is Kylo's 3-dice is taking up almost half of your list at 45 or 46 points. Let's look at some other (small-base) aces in that point range and see how he compares.

Intensity Poe (33): R2-D2 (4), Intensity (2), Black One (1), Comm Relay (3), AT (2) - Total: 45 Points

Same cost as Kylo, same PS, roughly equal offensive output (Kylo gets his 1 die reroll, Poe gets to change 1 focus to a hit). 3 Die primary, no secondary weapons. So why is Poe playable (not totally meta-defining, mind you)? He is a 45 point fortress that, even if he is out-PS, his Focus-Evade, AT, +Regen gives him the ability to slowly, but surely, outlast you.

Classic Corran (35): PTL (3), FCS (2), EU (4), R2-D2 (4) - Total: 48

3 more points than Kylo, but you gain double-taps with FCS, greatly increasing offensive output. You lose 1 overall HP, and lose 1 PS, but gain Regen. You don't have as amazing a dial, but Regen counters that. Also note, if you need to, like Poe, you can Focus-Evade when you get caught and can't arc-dodge. Plus, even if you do get hit, you just dial in a green and get a shield back. Again, a point fortress.

"Buzzsaw" Whisper (32): ACD (4), FCS (2), Gunner (5), VI (1) - Total: 44

You can make him cheaper, but to be point-for-point along with Kylo, we put Gunner on Whisper. So, we have the same PS, similar premove shenanigans, but gain 1-red die that hits like a truck, and then, with Focus (gained from attack)-Evade (action took) behind 4-dice, you are virtually untouchable. Again, a point fortress.

So, what do we see from these 3 expensive aces? They have one or both of these traits:

+High defense backed by Focus-Evade

+Offensive punch that compensates for being half of a list

Poe doesn't really have the second one, but both Corran and Whisper have both. So, what is ASPTL Kylo lacking that this guys have, and does his bring sometime else to compensate?

High Defense backed by Focus-Evade? Nope. He has AT and hopefully a Focus, but without Regen, damage will get through and it will stick. Every arc-dodger gets stuck sometimes, and that's when they Focus-Evade to live (or Regen the damage back). Kylo can do neither.

Offensive punch to compensate for being half of the list? Nope. Just 3 dice and a light reroll (forget the focus, you need it to survive) is nice on 30ish point ships, but not 45 points. Poe makes it work because he's impossible to kill late game, even if you have PS on him.

And this, I think, is the Achilles heel of PTL-AS Kylo: Anyone moving after him kills him pretty much for free, and it's not really a fair fight. Without focus-evade, Kylo will take hits and he'll take them quickly. Yes, he can dish out the condition, but then he's got to trigger it with a crit. If they are an ace and have Focus-Evade, that crit is not going to hit (if he gets lucky and rolls it). Let me put it this way: if the developers tomorrow came out and nerfed Veteran Instincts and said that PS9 is now a hard cap, Kylo would be amazing with a bid (Whisper would come back again too). But as it is, Kylo does not bring either the damage mitigation or the offensive threat that is needed for his points. Maybe, maybe, VI-FCS-TT Kylo might be able to hold his weight and not die to higher PS, but I struggle to see what he brings to the table that Quickdraw (or Soontir for that matter) doesn't already bring. Yes, you get tons of crazy repositioning, but eventually you'll get caught out in the open, and you won't have focus-evade to save yourself. You'll lose half of your health, and deal the condition, and pray you can get it to trigger. Sometimes you will, sometimes you won't, but with that Ace moving after you, I think it will be rarer to get the condition to pop than not. I really wish I was wrong on this, and maybe if the meta shifts to lower PS it will, but for now, I can't see him consistently getting your points back. (PS - Let's not even talk about ships that have auxiliary or mobile arcs. Kylo will just straight up die to those. I'm looking at you, Asajj)

ISYTDS gives Kylo a pretty decent counterweight, in that it pushes a critical effect onto the target that ignores shields. Against many of those aces, you'll be able to stick them with a Damaged Cockpit critical that will mitigate their arc-dodging if they manage to hit him. The ability is especially punishing against a ship like Whisper or Corran, as they only have two hull to spare in the first place.

And if you really want to turtle up, there are ways to do so.

Kylo Ren (TIE Silencer) (35)
Intensity (2)
Fire-Control System (2)
Targeting Synchronizer (3)
Autothrusters (2)
First Order Vanguard (2)

Total: 46

A 46-point Kylo build. Kylo can use his regular action to focus, while spending FCS locks to perform boosts or barrel rolls and pick up an evade through Intensity. Alternately, switch the Synchronizer for either Optics to shave a point, or Comm Relay to ensure the Evade token is always there. A Focus and Evade also help you control the damage coming in, so you can take one hit to assign the condition without losing half your health.

FCS and the Vanguard title step on each other a bit. It can give you rerolls on the initial attack before FCS kicks in, as well as the ability to discard it for defensive rerolls in an emergency.

21 hours ago, skotothalamos said:

The dial begs for PTL and we all have fond/terrifying memories of Soontir, so we want him to be 6-hit-point Soontir, but there is no evade on that action bar, and there is no double-focus on that pilot ability.

The *only* times I've won with Kylo have been with the combo of Intensity, Threat Tracker, and Palpatine. That's upwards of 70 points. leaves you 25-27 points left over. if only there were a good imperial wingman in that range...

I can think of lots:

OL with ASTS, tech of choice

Countdown

Pure Sabbac is amazing

Duchess isn't shabby

Zeta Leader w/ wired and Comm Relay

Autoblaster Kestal with LWF and VI

Snapshot Mauler Mithel does serious work for cost and leaves extra points to place elsewhere

Is Blackout a reason to revisit Tactical Jammer? Something like this?

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v4!s!70:27,144,-1:34:-1:;56:172,-1,45,-1:-1:14:;285:214,186,204:60:15:&sn=Asteroids do not concern me&obs=

I have to say Kylo. I would take him without any pilot ability. He is just such a great repositioning arc-dodging ace. He needs high PS to make that work. I sort of feel like the fact that it is Kylo Ren as a disadvantage, because I like putting Kylo crew on RAC to pair with my imperial aces. Even so, a PS 9 Silencer with Advanced Sensors, PtL and the upgrade that lets you barrel roll or bust when you are stressed is just too good of a combo.

1 hour ago, hothie said:

Is Blackout a reason to revisit Tactical Jammer? Something like this?

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v4!s!70:27,144,-1:34:-1:;56:172,-1,45,-1:-1:14:;285:214,186,204:60:15:&sn=Asteroids do not concern me&obs=

I have yet to try it, but here's what I've been thinking of playing:

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/782868/tactical-blackout

The idea is to stay behind the Upsilon Shuttle while she use coordinate to give Blackout a Focus; he then use advanced Sensor to take a target lock before bumping into the shuttle. Meanwhile, I try to flank with Omega Leader. If Omega Leader is close enough, I will use coordinate to give him a focus (instead of giving it to Blackout, which should have one already anyway because of Advanced Optics) the same turn he takes his Target Lock.

1 hour ago, hothie said:

Is Blackout a reason to revisit Tactical Jammer? Something like this?

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v4!s!70:27,144,-1:34:-1:;56:172,-1,45,-1:-1:14:;285:214,186,204:60:15:&sn=Asteroids do not concern me&obs=

Tactical jammer only obstructs enemy attacks. So unless your opponent foolishly brought it against Blackout...

2 hours ago, Red Castle said:

I have yet to try it, but here's what I've been thinking of playing:

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/782868/tactical-blackout

The idea is to stay behind the Upsilon Shuttle while she use coordinate to give Blackout a Focus; he then use advanced Sensor to take a target lock before bumping into the shuttle. Meanwhile, I try to flank with Omega Leader. If Omega Leader is close enough, I will use coordinate to give him a focus (instead of giving it to Blackout, which should have one already anyway because of Advanced Optics) the same turn he takes his Target Lock.

and then Blackout fires an unobstructed shot because the shuttle only obstructs enemy shots.

2 hours ago, BadMotivator said:

Tactical jammer only obstructs enemy attacks. So unless your opponent foolishly brought it against Blackout...

Right. Good call. Thanks!

1 hour ago, skotothalamos said:

and then Blackout fires an unobstructed shot because the shuttle only obstructs enemy shots.

Yea, forgot that part about Tactical Jammer...

I've flown the silencer against a few ships now; Poe, Dash, Miranda, SFs, RAClo

I've paired it with two defenders (x7) and two gunboats. If you pair the silencer with strong wingmen is performs well. It's fast it can get in and out of arcs fast.

What the silencer isn't, is a short game ship; if you are wanting games to be over fast; this isn't the ship for you. The silencer is a stalker, it waits and takes it time. If you charge in, or don't have wingmen that can back you up, or carry the game till the time is right, then it falls apart.

TL:TR - Late Game Ship, needs good wingmen.

ive seen a few folks saying that blackout's ability is hard to get off. I'm not seeing that so much. I;ve only played one game and used his ability a bunch. He's a torment to dash, that's for sure. took an outriders shields off in a single shot.

I've now played Blackout 3 times. The first game he wasn't really tested as it was over after round 3 (some really unlucky dice from my opponent meant I killed two of the three ship build in the 2nd round of firing taking a single shield loss). I did tweek my blackout build to the following however:

Blackout (TIE Silencer) (31)
Intensity (2)
Fire-Control System (2)
Threat Tracker (3)
Autothrusters (2)
First Order Vanguard (2)

I wasn't purposely trying to activate his ability as when I've tried that sort of thing in the past (with other ships) it often compromises his position. Having said that, I found it really very easy to trigger the ability. The thing I found most useful however was FCS paired with Threat Tracker! It got me out of at least one firing arc almost every round. I've also found the First Order title to be almost useless - but i have only flown against 3 ship builds. I did use the disposable "re-roll defence dice" once, which helped, but otherwise I didn't get to use it in the 3 games. I think I'm going to remove the title on the next game. Comparing him to using Kylo, I'd take Blackout each time, as above without the title. It was fun to fly and did get damage through. Having said all of that, even at 40pts it's not as effective as other ships (Quickdraw!).

Fun ship

On December 11, 2017 at 2:35 PM, Biophysical said:

I haven't had a chance to try a list with these yet, but I am definitely interested. Even just FCS+Autothrusters for 30 points gives you a pretty stout ship with a solid defensive profile, a terrific dial, and good offense, with room to customize if the list allows.

Has anyone been able to test the generics any more yet? I'm wondering how these compare to /x7 Deltas or, as Mace Windu said, TIE/sfs.

Edit: Actually, would anyone be able to tell me what the 'jousting efficiency' of the ship Biophysical laid out is? I tried consulting @MajorJuggler's thread but couldn't figure out how to assign values to the stats.

I had fun with this list last night:

Kylo Ren (TIE Silencer) (35)
Intensity (2)
Collision Detector (0)
Comm Relay (3)
Autothrusters (2)

"Omega Leader" (21)
Juke (2)
Comm Relay (3)

"Backdraft" (27)
Adaptability (0)
Fire-Control System (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Special Ops Training (0)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

There are probably better wingman options that would let me give Kylo a better system slot upgrade, but I just wanted two First Order TIE aces here. Collision Detector at least allows Kylo to play fearlessly with Debris fields, even using them to boost or barrel roll onto. FCS seems nice, but falls victim to Black One. The Intensity/Comm Relay combo worked really well at allowing Kylo to turtle up, which addresses some of the critiques about him being too fragile. It also gives him more control over incoming damage, so you can take a single hit in order to show your attacker the Dark Side.

7 hours ago, TheHumanHydra said:

Has anyone been able to test the generics any more yet? I'm wondering how these compare to /x7 Deltas or, as Mace Windu said, TIE/sfs.

Edit: Actually, would anyone be able to tell me what the 'jousting efficiency' of the ship Biophysical laid out is? I tried consulting @MajorJuggler's thread but couldn't figure out how to assign values to the stats.

I've done a little testing. I've liked then so far. I need some more reps, though.

To echo @ficklegreendice, Kylo with PTL and Advanced Sensors is not at all dead against higher PS ships. I've tried it out in practice and he can generally outmaneuver them to places they cannot get to and I've won all my games against higher PS opponents.

The model looks nothing like it does in the movie. (Chunkyier everywhere, back is wrong, panels wrong and extend too far back) so hopefully when they fix the model they will also include a fix for the ship. And a missile slot.

6 hours ago, All Shields Forward said:

The model looks nothing like it does in the movie. (Chunkyier everywhere, back is wrong, panels wrong and extend too far back) so hopefully when they fix the model they will also include a fix for the ship. And a missile slot.

They're never going to adjust the actual model, as it's already been rendered and the mold made for it. Blame Disney for that one.

On 12/17/2017 at 4:58 PM, PhantomFO said:

They're never going to adjust the actual model, as it's already been rendered and the mold made for it. Blame Disney for that one.

It's a shame. Had they used the movie model it would have fit into the larger clam shell packaging.

I've now played 10 games with Kylo in the Silencer. He has only died in 3 of the games, and those games were ones which in a tournament would have gone to time long before he died. So realistically, in a tournament timeframe he will not die.

He's a good distraction for the rest of your list to kill stuff while they're trying to nail Kylo down. Even when he is out PS'd.

2 hours ago, BadMotivator said:

I've now played 10 games with Kylo in the Silencer. He has only died in 3 of the games, and those games were ones which in a tournament would have gone to time long before he died. So realistically, in a tournament timeframe he will not die.

He's a good distraction for the rest of your list to kill stuff while they're trying to nail Kylo down. Even when he is out PS'd.

What wingman/wingmen did you think where best?

And was it PTL adv. Sensors Kylo?

I'm thinking of running him with two ps4 gunboats with deadeye, chips and harpoons. Or LRS and crack shot.

Quote

Best of the Silencer Pilots

Kylo, the rest are junk.

Next!

Analyst, Optics, FCS, A-Thrusters. Costs the same as a crackshot rho, with more action economy on less offence dice. and trading 1 health for 1 agility. Both ships good for different ace builds.