42 minutes ago, Mr Slippery said:

It's a straight forward build to be honest - VI, Homing Missile, Os-1 title and advanced slam.

VI to bring in line with Blackout and Sabacc (with adapt), homing because I have more success with that than others (you can swap out for harpoon which seems flavor of the month).

I've only flown it twice but was fun.

I think you mean Vynder for this one. Karsabi wants HLC, Vynder wants missiles and adv slam.

6 minutes ago, RampancyTW said:

I think the PS4 generic is the best value so far. Been running it with optics, advanced sensors, and thrusters for 33 points. Amazing dial, solid stat-line, and pseudo action economy is a great little package.

Planning on running Kylo with Intensity/AdvS/CommR/thrusters/title for 47 points of pseudo regen, less auto-win against arc-locked ships but more well-rounded against the field.

I haven't had a chance to try a list with these yet, but I am definitely interested. Even just FCS+Autothrusters for 30 points gives you a pretty stout ship with a solid defensive profile, a terrific dial, and good offense, with room to customize if the list allows.

Just now, Biophysical said:

I haven't had a chance to try a list with these yet, but I am definitely interested. Even just FCS+Autothrusters for 30 points gives you a pretty stout ship with a solid defensive profile, a terrific dial, and good offense, with room to customize if the list allows.

Indeed. I run as JAMMIN on Vassal, just played ya! The PS4 pilot is really pretty solid, a few different good ways to kit it.

31 minutes ago, RampancyTW said:

Indeed. I run as JAMMIN on Vassal, just played ya! The PS4 pilot is really pretty solid, a few different good ways to kit it.

Hah! Nice to make the connection.

I cant get a silencer i like, its just to expensive.

Its to expensive naked so you have to invest more points to make it hit harder and survive better making it even more expensive.

Kinda sad about this ship, i really wanted to like it but had a feeling it was going to be to costly and that is how it feels after trying it.

2 hours ago, Biophysical said:

I haven't had a chance to try a list with these yet, but I am definitely interested. Even just FCS+Autothrusters for 30 points gives you a pretty stout ship with a solid defensive profile, a terrific dial, and good offense, with room to customize if the list allows.

This might be the only real way to run it, the aces are not worth the cost.

2 hours ago, Biophysical said:

I haven't had a chance to try a list with these yet, but I am definitely interested. Even just FCS+Autothrusters for 30 points gives you a pretty stout ship with a solid defensive profile, a terrific dial, and good offense, with room to customize if the list allows.

7 minutes ago, Icelom said:

This might be the only real way to run it, the aces are not worth the cost.

I’d still like to try:

36 TIE Silencer on-the-cheap "Blackout" PS7 (31): Trick Shot (0), Collision Detector (0), Primed Thrusters (1)

....I have a good list with a 37 point swivel spot ?

8 minutes ago, Icelom said:

I cant get a silencer i like, its just to expensive.

Its to expensive naked so you have to invest more points to make it hit harder and survive better making it even more expensive.

Kinda sad about this ship, i really wanted to like it but had a feeling it was going to be to costly and that is how it feels after trying it.

Not sure if this is the real issue. I think it’s understanding the role it has that’s the tricky part. Honestly it’s a flanker, more akin to the Intercepters than the Defender. The big issue at least for many from what I am seeing and have read is the pilot skill to cost at the surface doesn’t Mesh with the traditional ideas for the role the ship has.

This flanker needs or wants help to do what it does,it wants blockers, and/or a strong jouster, and it wants those to be a bit cheaper so it shines. Much like Rebel Poe at PS9 that ends up pricing the same way with similar stats but a far lesser upgrade bar and dial. This is meant to be a surgical tool not a blunt object. The thing is the Empire/First Order has those tools so we’re struggling to grasp the differences when comparing it to others like it.

Just now, clanofwolves said:

I’d still like to try:

36 TIE Silencer on-the-cheap "Blackout" PS7 (31): Trick Shot (0), Collision Detector (0), Primed Thrusters (1)

....I have a good list with a 37 point swivel spot ?

Tried that, almost that had wired instead of trick shot + the title. Was extremely unimpressed. I think i had 2 rounds of combat that i used the ability even with me dropping 3 big debris and aiming for it.

Really the ship ended up doing noodle damage and my opponent just ignored it so it lasted until the end of the game (i won, but only because quickdraw did some serious work).

I really wanted to like blackout but the ability is just to finicky to get much millage out of beyond the first round of combat.

The dial begs for PTL and we all have fond/terrifying memories of Soontir, so we want him to be 6-hit-point Soontir, but there is no evade on that action bar, and there is no double-focus on that pilot ability.

The *only* times I've won with Kylo have been with the combo of Intensity, Threat Tracker, and Palpatine. That's upwards of 70 points. leaves you 25-27 points left over. if only there were a good imperial wingman in that range...

2 minutes ago, skotothalamos said:

The dial begs for PTL and we all have fond/terrifying memories of Soontir, so we want him to be 6-hit-point Soontir, but there is no evade on that action bar, and there is no double-focus on that pilot ability.

The *only* times I've won with Kylo have been with the combo of Intensity, Threat Tracker, and Palpatine. That's upwards of 70 points. leaves you 25-27 points left over. if only there were a good imperial wingman in that range...

Omega Leader?!

3 minutes ago, skotothalamos said:

The dial begs for PTL and we all have fond/terrifying memories of Soontir, so we want him to be 6-hit-point Soontir, but there is no evade on that action bar, and there is no double-focus on that pilot ability.

The *only* times I've won with Kylo have been with the combo of Intensity, Threat Tracker, and Palpatine. That's upwards of 70 points. leaves you 25-27 points left over. if only there were a good imperial wingman in that range...

Native +3 hitpoints is no sneeze, though, and Kylo has way more maneuver options available. He can also blind/PS0 other ships.

18 minutes ago, RampancyTW said:

Native +3 hitpoints is no sneeze, though, and Kylo has way more maneuver options available. He can also blind/PS0 other ships.

The issue on that is twofold. One he has to take Damage. Glass ship does not want to be hit. Two, has to have a crit go through. Since he can’t just do it as an action like the crew can makes it more difficult to get off effectively.

1 hour ago, Ronu said:

The issue on that is twofold. One he has to take Damage. Glass ship does not want to be hit. Two, has to have a crit go through. Since he can’t just do it as an action like the crew can makes it more difficult to get off effectively.

He has 6hp backed by a reroll title, 3agi, and autothrusters. Ya'll are getting a little hyperbolic with your "glass" usage.

5 minutes ago, RampancyTW said:

He has 6hp backed by a reroll title, 3agi, and autothrusters. Ya'll are getting a little hyperbolic with your "glass" usage.

Seriously. It's almost as bad as the "He only performs a single attack with just three attack dice! That's terrible offensive output!"

There are people who seem to have this attitude where they expect things to just provide a guaranteed 4 hits, and either have 15 HP or massive token stacks for defense. It's not healthy.

28 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

Seriously. It's almost as bad as the "He only performs a single attack with just three attack dice! That's terrible offensive output!"

To be fair, I don't anyone thinks that 3-die, plus a reroll is terrible offense, in a vacuum, the problem is Kylo's 3-dice is taking up almost half of your list at 45 or 46 points. Let's look at some other (small-base) aces in that point range and see how he compares.

Intensity Poe (33): R2-D2 (4), Intensity (2), Black One (1), Comm Relay (3), AT (2) - Total: 45 Points

Same cost as Kylo, same PS, roughly equal offensive output (Kylo gets his 1 die reroll, Poe gets to change 1 focus to a hit). 3 Die primary, no secondary weapons. So why is Poe playable (not totally meta-defining, mind you)? He is a 45 point fortress that, even if he is out-PS, his Focus-Evade, AT, +Regen gives him the ability to slowly, but surely, outlast you.

Classic Corran (35): PTL (3), FCS (2), EU (4), R2-D2 (4) - Total: 48

3 more points than Kylo, but you gain double-taps with FCS, greatly increasing offensive output. You lose 1 overall HP, and lose 1 PS, but gain Regen. You don't have as amazing a dial, but Regen counters that. Also note, if you need to, like Poe, you can Focus-Evade when you get caught and can't arc-dodge. Plus, even if you do get hit, you just dial in a green and get a shield back. Again, a point fortress.

"Buzzsaw" Whisper (32): ACD (4), FCS (2), Gunner (5), VI (1) - Total: 44

You can make him cheaper, but to be point-for-point along with Kylo, we put Gunner on Whisper. So, we have the same PS, similar premove shenanigans, but gain 1-red die that hits like a truck, and then, with Focus (gained from attack)-Evade (action took) behind 4-dice, you are virtually untouchable. Again, a point fortress.

So, what do we see from these 3 expensive aces? They have one or both of these traits:

+High defense backed by Focus-Evade

+Offensive punch that compensates for being half of a list

Poe doesn't really have the second one, but both Corran and Whisper have both. So, what is ASPTL Kylo lacking that this guys have, and does his bring sometime else to compensate?

High Defense backed by Focus-Evade? Nope. He has AT and hopefully a Focus, but without Regen, damage will get through and it will stick. Every arc-dodger gets stuck sometimes, and that's when they Focus-Evade to live (or Regen the damage back). Kylo can do neither.

Offensive punch to compensate for being half of the list? Nope. Just 3 dice and a light reroll (forget the focus, you need it to survive) is nice on 30ish point ships, but not 45 points. Poe makes it work because he's impossible to kill late game, even if you have PS on him.

And this, I think, is the Achilles heel of PTL-AS Kylo: Anyone moving after him kills him pretty much for free, and it's not really a fair fight. Without focus-evade, Kylo will take hits and he'll take them quickly. Yes, he can dish out the condition, but then he's got to trigger it with a crit. If they are an ace and have Focus-Evade, that crit is not going to hit (if he gets lucky and rolls it). Let me put it this way: if the developers tomorrow came out and nerfed Veteran Instincts and said that PS9 is now a hard cap, Kylo would be amazing with a bid (Whisper would come back again too). But as it is, Kylo does not bring either the damage mitigation or the offensive threat that is needed for his points. Maybe, maybe, VI-FCS-TT Kylo might be able to hold his weight and not die to higher PS, but I struggle to see what he brings to the table that Quickdraw (or Soontir for that matter) doesn't already bring. Yes, you get tons of crazy repositioning, but eventually you'll get caught out in the open, and you won't have focus-evade to save yourself. You'll lose half of your health, and deal the condition, and pray you can get it to trigger. Sometimes you will, sometimes you won't, but with that Ace moving after you, I think it will be rarer to get the condition to pop than not. I really wish I was wrong on this, and maybe if the meta shifts to lower PS it will, but for now, I can't see him consistently getting your points back. (PS - Let's not even talk about ships that have auxiliary or mobile arcs. Kylo will just straight up die to those. I'm looking at you, Asajj)

I think I will need to check out the generic next time I break out the Silencer. Kylo was been disappointing and Blackout is okay, but for the points there are better ships.

5 hours ago, Ronu said:

Omega Leader?!

26 points to House Slytherin!

12 hours ago, xanderf said:

Soooo...are we just not doing dials anymore, then?

Because the SF dial is crappy, and the Silencer dial is amazeballs.

I don’t agree. The SF dial is actually fantastic. It has all the moves except the 5 forward. Yeah a K-Turn would be nice instead of just sloops, but that is probably my only complaint.

For just 2pts you can take Pattern Analyser which effectively makes your entire dial “action open”.

The Silencer Dial is a good PTL Dial but that is all. It doesn’t have slow moves except the 1 hard, when it desperately probably needs a 1 bank.

People need to stop looking at green on a dial and thinking that it is better than other ships. Green only matters for shedding stress, which in general means it only matters for PTL. The Silencer is good at this, better because it can Advanced Sensors, but that limits it to 2 actions, but in reality it isn’t a lot better than an A-Wing or Interceptor.

I always though Vader’s Dial was better than Fel’s because Vader had his whole Dial open and Fel didn’t. This is pretty similar with the Silencer except that in theory the Silencer has an open Dial on any turn but at the sacrifice of limiting its actions this turn or next.

I think the biggest limiting factor of the Silencer will always be 1 defensive action max. Autothrusters only takes you so far.

15 minutes ago, DodgingArcs said:

I don’t agree. The SF dial is actually fantastic. It has all the moves except the 5 forward. Yeah a K-Turn would be nice instead of just sloops, but that is probably my only complaint.

For just 2pts you can take Pattern Analyser which effectively makes your entire dial “action open”.

The Silencer Dial is a good PTL Dial but that is all. It doesn’t have slow moves except the 1 hard, when it desperately probably needs a 1 bank.

People need to stop looking at green on a dial and thinking that it is better than other ships. Green only matters for shedding stress, which in general means it only matters for PTL. The Silencer is good at this, better because it can Advanced Sensors, but that limits it to 2 actions, but in reality it isn’t a lot better than an A-Wing or Interceptor.

I always though Vader’s Dial was better than Fel’s because Vader had his whole Dial open and Fel didn’t. This is pretty similar with the Silencer except that in theory the Silencer has an open Dial on any turn but at the sacrifice of limiting its actions this turn or next.

I think the biggest limiting factor of the Silencer will always be 1 defensive action max. Autothrusters only takes you so far.

Well the title does give you an extra sudo action, and if you go lone wolf, there’s another.

the silencers offensive is easily the bigger weak point then defense, autothrusts+focus is just fine for Fenn, and this has more hit points

the thing is the silencer is a high skill ship, it has a good dial and boost barrel roll, which is amazing..... if you actually utilize it to outfly your opponent. It’s not going to kill your opponent before they can react like QuickDraw might.

actually QuickDraw and and the silencer are like imperial opposites. One hangs out there and says shoot me, I’ll shoot you harder, and the other is more hide, run away. I think a good silencer squad needs a kill, then save your points and his the rest of the game, and that’s really hard to do for most players. I know for experience it’s really easy to get greedy.

also I think we all need to look at the squad we place the silencer in. Right now it’s easy to throw everything on it and try it out because it’s new and shiny. But I’m guessing the more conservative versions will be best, maybe just ptl and advance sensors and thrusters, or vi and fcs, or lone wolf and advanced sensors, make sure there is more to the squad then the silencer because that will probably always be your opponents first target

i think it’s gonna make an impact, it’s just gonna take time for us to find its place

11 hours ago, PhantomFO said:

The Deci at least has a turret to ensure that it can attack every round. Plus it has Large Ship Boost.

Not that I'm knocking the Silencer. Advanced Optics is pretty great here, though I love Primed Thrusters on this thing for the freedom to use Advanced Sensors to boost or barrel roll while stressed.

And the people knocking Kylo's ability because it only works when he takes damage must be drunk. Unless you only play incompetent opponents, it's pretty safe to assume that you will probably take a hit or two in a fight. Even in the days of Super Soontir, it would not be unusual for Fel to end up getting tagged once. You can do all you can to prevent it, but it's still something that any player should expect will happen. Kylo just provides a penalty when it happens to him.

True, the turret is there. But I'd say that with Advanced Sensors and PTL you can practically guarantee you have a shot on at least one particular target. Even against something like PS10 Nym(who you will keep at range 2-3 and thus have a larger arc to catch him with)

Of course, with the price tag and the size of those cannons the Silencer could have easily had 4 attack base. I doubt it would have been OP, just blatant power creep.

10 hours ago, SirCormac said:

To be fair, I don't anyone thinks that 3-die, plus a reroll is terrible offense, in a vacuum, the problem is Kylo's 3-dice is taking up almost half of your list at 45 or 46 points. Let's look at some other (small-base) aces in that point range and see how he compares.

Intensity Poe (33): R2-D2 (4), Intensity (2), Black One (1), Comm Relay (3), AT (2) - Total: 45 Points

Same cost as Kylo, same PS, roughly equal offensive output (Kylo gets his 1 die reroll, Poe gets to change 1 focus to a hit). 3 Die primary, no secondary weapons. So why is Poe playable (not totally meta-defining, mind you)? He is a 45 point fortress that, even if he is out-PS, his Focus-Evade, AT, +Regen gives him the ability to slowly, but surely, outlast you.

Classic Corran (35): PTL (3), FCS (2), EU (4), R2-D2 (4) - Total: 48

3 more points than Kylo, but you gain double-taps with FCS, greatly increasing offensive output. You lose 1 overall HP, and lose 1 PS, but gain Regen. You don't have as amazing a dial, but Regen counters that. Also note, if you need to, like Poe, you can Focus-Evade when you get caught and can't arc-dodge. Plus, even if you do get hit, you just dial in a green and get a shield back. Again, a point fortress.

"Buzzsaw" Whisper (32): ACD (4), FCS (2), Gunner (5), VI (1) - Total: 44

You can make him cheaper, but to be point-for-point along with Kylo, we put Gunner on Whisper. So, we have the same PS, similar premove shenanigans, but gain 1-red die that hits like a truck, and then, with Focus (gained from attack)-Evade (action took) behind 4-dice, you are virtually untouchable. Again, a point fortress.

So, what do we see from these 3 expensive aces? They have one or both of these traits:

+High defense backed by Focus-Evade

+Offensive punch that compensates for being half of a list

Poe doesn't really have the second one, but both Corran and Whisper have both. So, what is ASPTL Kylo lacking that this guys have, and does his bring sometime else to compensate?

High Defense backed by Focus-Evade? Nope. He has AT and hopefully a Focus, but without Regen, damage will get through and it will stick. Every arc-dodger gets stuck sometimes, and that's when they Focus-Evade to live (or Regen the damage back). Kylo can do neither.

Offensive punch to compensate for being half of the list? Nope. Just 3 dice and a light reroll (forget the focus, you need it to survive) is nice on 30ish point ships, but not 45 points. Poe makes it work because he's impossible to kill late game, even if you have PS on him.

And this, I think, is the Achilles heel of PTL-AS Kylo: Anyone moving after him kills him pretty much for free, and it's not really a fair fight. Without focus-evade, Kylo will take hits and he'll take them quickly. Yes, he can dish out the condition, but then he's got to trigger it with a crit. If they are an ace and have Focus-Evade, that crit is not going to hit (if he gets lucky and rolls it). Let me put it this way: if the developers tomorrow came out and nerfed Veteran Instincts and said that PS9 is now a hard cap, Kylo would be amazing with a bid (Whisper would come back again too). But as it is, Kylo does not bring either the damage mitigation or the offensive threat that is needed for his points. Maybe, maybe, VI-FCS-TT Kylo might be able to hold his weight and not die to higher PS, but I struggle to see what he brings to the table that Quickdraw (or Soontir for that matter) doesn't already bring. Yes, you get tons of crazy repositioning, but eventually you'll get caught out in the open, and you won't have focus-evade to save yourself. You'll lose half of your health, and deal the condition, and pray you can get it to trigger. Sometimes you will, sometimes you won't, but with that Ace moving after you, I think it will be rarer to get the condition to pop than not. I really wish I was wrong on this, and maybe if the meta shifts to lower PS it will, but for now, I can't see him consistently getting your points back. (PS - Let's not even talk about ships that have auxiliary or mobile arcs. Kylo will just straight up die to those. I'm looking at you, Asajj)

Finally someone who understand why Kylo will not be successful. Maybe a few stubborn people will try to make him work. But as long as he gets no good wingman (something like a imperial Shadowcaster or a cheaper Decimator). He will not shine.

17 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

I think you mean Vynder for this one. Karsabi wants HLC, Vynder wants missiles and adv slam.

Yes, my bad. Was typo. Seems I can't think about one thing and write about another ?

Re the Silencer and higher ps, it's just a matter of knowing what you're doing

You have to abuse your absurd range of movement options and premanuever broll AND primed to get into positions the enemy simply can't react to

The easiest of these is just parking your *** before an obstacle. They can't come at you because you have a wall between yourself and them. You can avoid it with sensors, they can't.

Sometimes it's as easy as getting behind the enemy. They don't have the same range of options you do because you have primed

Sensors require more flexible thinking than just "arc dodging". You have to know when to ptl pre green, when to forgo ptl to pre white or red, when to ptl boost + roll when already stressed or forgo sensors altogether to move after a red or to simply ptl normally.

More importantly, you have to know how moving cuts an opponent's options and how to situate the rest of your squad to take advantage of that

The Silencer's problem isn't ps, it's that it ISNT EASY TO FLY. It isn't a mod monster, especially not at its price, and you have to be able to think long term with sensors

Not that I'm advocating kylo (rather a 42 point blackout than 46 kylo), or that you aren't better off with an SF for six rounds. Just saying ps isn't that great an issue, and that the ship is so engrossing and fun

13 hours ago, PhantomFO said:

Seriously. It's almost as bad as the "He only performs a single attack with just three attack dice! That's terrible offensive output!"

There are people who seem to have this attitude where they expect things to just provide a guaranteed 4 hits, and either have 15 HP or massive token stacks for defense. It's not healthy.

"It's not healthy." Truer words have not been better typed my friend.

I'll agree with this and lay its disease genesis at the feet of the game designers. It seems that for the past year to date one needs either need Regen (token stacking and Reinforce mimics this), Turrets, or high red dice secondary attack output to actually compete; or best yet, a combination of all three. I too wish the game's core 80 degree, fragile, arc locked ships dog-fighting for position were the average in squads rather than the exception, but the game design has grossly eroded this core of love almost completely out of the game. Maybe, just maybe the game designers see their compounding error, and reign in the triple headed game eating monster of Regen, Turret, Red dice piles, and restore the joy.

9 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Not that I'm advocating kylo (rather a 42 point blackout than 46 kylo), or that you aren't better off with an SF for six rounds. Just saying ps isn't that great an issue, and that the ship is so engrossing and fun

This I certainly hope will be the case if I'm gifted one; Interceptors are my current and former joy to fly in this game, and for all intents and purposes, this ship should be their king.