1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

Man, you’d hate Hothgary.

Where the majority of the events are 2 round Fleet Patrols where players have specifically stated it allows them to set aside time for 2 games, get an early lunch, play them, and be home for dinner...

I'd hate that too, we are currently aiming for 800 point games, because more ISDs means more fun....

2 minutes ago, Darth Lupine said:

I'd hate that too, we are currently aiming for 800 point games, because more ISDs means more fun....

Oh, we have casual gaming too. Corellisn conflicts, large games and all.

but we are talking about TOURNAMENTS here ?

It was my fault for using ‘events’ genetically rAther than ‘tournaments’

Just now, Drasnighta said:

Oh, we have casual gaming too. Corellisn conflicts, large games and all.

but we are talking about TOURNAMENTS here ?

Ahh, so true. Yeah, I prefer at least three games, more so when I have to drive an hour and a half for a tourney.

Just now, Darth Lupine said:

Ahh, so true. Yeah, I prefer at least three games, more so when I have to drive an hour and a half for a tourney.

We’re isolated.

id drive 4+ hours to tournaments, but outside of Hothgary and E-cloud City, the nearest ones are straight up 12+ away.

Which is why I run them here.

20 minutes ago, Boris_the_Dwarf said:

My point exactly.

Armada scores are based on margin of victory, not win/lose.

I am a new player. I played my first tourney, a regional this weekend. It was also my first 3 games played ever, anywhere. I had no expectation of placing above dead last. I went 0-3 and had a blast. To me the entry fee was a way to help my local store and encourage them to do more tourneys. And to me it was money well spent and a great value. I got 8 hours entertainment, met some really cool people, and got to blow up a gladiator, my one kill of the day and the high point of my weekend.

I plan to play in every tourney I can and probably won't do much better. I am a trucker and have very limited time for practice or list building. I will probably get tabled often and take up permanent residence on the bottom of the tourney list. And I will still be getting exceptional value for my tourney fee.

9 hours ago, Boris_the_Dwarf said:

How many players in that event? I don’t agree about the equalizing effect. I’ve seen players lose round one and then climb all the way to the top row in a large event, but not when they only have two more games to play.

32. Martinsburg, WV in 2016.

While I think 4 rounds might help in some cases, it's not going to cover the luck of matchups. I was tied for 1st at the Michigan regionals this weekend and ended up 6th. Part of that was a Store Championship bye - which I earned in a 10-player tournament, sizable by store championship standards. The bigger part in setting me up for an opportunity to win the whole thing was matchups. I had a bomber-focused list with 8 squadrons plus Adar Tallon. My first opponent had 2 X-wings, Biggs, and Jan. My second opponent had 3 TIE Fighters and Ciena Ree. My third opponent in the final round had just Shara and Tycho. In terms of matchups, the opportunity to win the whole thing was there for the taking. (But excellent flying by my opponent, and my black dice rolling blanks over and over and over meant I lost. You're getting a side-eye, too, red dice, you just didn't have rerolls.)

In a tournament with multiple Sloanes, I faced none. I also faced no other squadron-centric lists. There is no number of rounds that's going to guarantee you get an unfavorable matchup, and 8 hours of Armada is already a lot in a 3-round tournament.

11 hours ago, Scummy Rebel said:

Easily said when you're someone who consistently gets said loot.

Work with a LGS to TO events.

Playing isn't the only way to get sweet gear. I've TO'd two major events up at Empire and got basically the same prize as 1st player. (seriously, because of a few savvy trades and the generosity of people like Biggs I was able to get a full set of regional dice, several double sided acrylic rulers, and even the regional set much loot).

If I'm anything like the other people who always get stuck TOing, they may not mind stepping aside as TO to actually play in one of these events. I had a bye a regional I couldn't use because I was the only person who could TO it. I'd have loved for someone just looking to snag the gear to come up and TO so I could play.

Just keep that in mind. If loot is the goal there are alternatives to fighting...

My opinion: I play to get games in. Locally it's almost non existent as a game. I don't mind paying to play some games, although I do have less incentive to play where they charge more for the games and I have less chance to win anything. It's not about the "loot" as much as perceived value for my money especially when I'm already down money before even setting a ship down.

But the scoring setup does allow for a loss and still finishing well. Especially when you can get 4 rounds.

40 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Work with a LGS to TO events.

Playing isn't the only way to get sweet gear. I've TO'd two major events up at Empire and got basically the same prize as 1st player. (seriously, because of a few savvy trades and the generosity of people like Biggs I was able to get a full set of regional dice, several double sided acrylic rulers, and even the regional set much loot).

If I'm anything like the other people who always get stuck TOing, they may not mind stepping aside as TO to actually play in one of these events. I had a bye a regional I couldn't use because I was the only person who could TO it. I'd have loved for someone just looking to snag the gear to come up and TO so I could play.

Just keep that in mind. If loot is the goal there are alternatives to fighting...

True, but that's a viable way for what? One maybe three people in a given geographic area if you have multiple stores and one person doesn't monopolize the TOing to take the prizes?

I think FFG selling generic acrylic rulers and such makes much more sense for everyone including FFG's bottom line and the only way I can see someone objecting to that would be if they felt it would cheapen the prizes, but since none of us are playing for anything but fun and cheap plastic doesn't matter; whats not to like?

Until they do I will continue to feel sympathy for those who don't win or get gifted one. Not sure why that's such a controversial opinion.

Honestly even if the OP has it a big crossed this post just reinforces that no issue is too small for the " if I'm happy with how things are everyone else should be too" contingent on these forums. Though I'm surprised and disappointed to see you joining them @Darth Sanguis Hopefully I'm misunderstanding you.

Based on how poorly done the FFG rulers are, I wouldn't pay for them. I'm probably going to buy some 3rd party ones because they're actually accurate.

10 minutes ago, Scummy Rebel said:

True, but that's a viable way for what? One maybe three people in a given geographic area if you have multiple stores and one person doesn't monopolize the TOing to take the prizes?

I think FFG selling generic acrylic rulers and such makes much more sense for everyone including FFG's bottom line and the only way I can see someone objecting to that would be if they felt it would cheapen the prizes, but since none of us are playing for anything but fun and cheap plastic doesn't matter; whats not to like?

Until they do I will continue to feel sympathy for those who don't win or get gifted one. Not sure why that's such a controversial opinion.

If FFG started selling acrylic rulers they'd have to start making them right. out of all the ones they've made 1 of them is close to correct. (I think the store champ one from last year? I discovered this weekend, the distance 2 is short)

and there are plenty of 3rd party acrylic rulers that are all PERFECT I have some from litko that I really like, but I've seen at least 2 others at tournaments that also look very nice. and if you're worried that they're not official or whatever, I've used them at all kinds of local tournaments, gencon, worlds, regionals in multiple states, and never ONCE has anyone said anything other than "where did you get those"

to speak to the OP, tournaments are about getting 3 fun games in, as many people have already said, I just went to michigan regionals and got absolutely smoked. I think I was 28th. I was a bit disappointed in my performance, but I had a ton of fun.

I second the idea that regionals and above should be at least 4 rounds. but for regular stuff, 4 rounds is just too much. saturday we started right at 12, took no breaks, and didn't finish until around 11. that's a long day. and for a regional that's fine, but I have no desire to do that every other month or so for a regular tournament with 6-12 people.

6 minutes ago, Emperor Dane said:

If FFG started selling acrylic rulers they'd have to start making them right.

Figured it went without saying I wasn't asking for them to make incorrect rulers.

37 minutes ago, Scummy Rebel said:

I think FFG selling generic acrylic rulers and such makes much more sense for everyone including FFG's bottom line and the only way I can see someone objecting to that would be if they felt it would cheapen the prizes, but since none of us are playing for anything but fun and cheap plastic doesn't matter; whats not to like?

I can't say I disagree with this, though if they're gonna launch an actual acrylic line they'll need to invest heavily in a QC department. I have 3 or 4 different sets and only one is accurate to the cardboard template. At the very least, what they should do is just release the actual template requirements and legalize 3rd party templates that meet those standards.

37 minutes ago, Scummy Rebel said:

True, but that's a viable way for what? One maybe three people in a given geographic area if you have multiple stores and one person doesn't monopolize the TOing to take the prizes

Maybe, I'm not sure how many stores are even running events that have TO prize kits anymore, after all, Empire was the oNLY ohio regionals this year, so yeah, that's a pretty solid counterpoint. lol

37 minutes ago, Scummy Rebel said:

Honestly even if the OP has it a big crossed this post just reinforces that no issue is too small for the " if I'm happy with how things are everyone else should be too" contingent on these forums. Though I'm surprised and disappointed to see you joining them @Darth Sanguis Hopefully I'm misunderstanding you.

Nah, I don't really have a side here. I'm just saying that there are other ways to get loot that are likely much easier than going toe to toe with the best. (and hopefully incentivizing a player to come TO for me, lol I wanna play too). I'm not against a official FFG line of acrylics, heck, I was hoping they'd be selling the ship bases separately by now.... All my large ship bases are starting to wear in and yellow. I'mma have to paint my whole set to make everything look halfway decent lol

13 hours ago, Boris_the_Dwarf said:

Why the **** would anyone bother to play a major tournament event if they are not already the top players?

They're fun.

12 hours ago, Scummy Rebel said:

You seemed to miss the point entirely, which wasn't to piss you off. After that I'm such an awesome member of the community rant (which I'm not sure what it has to do with anything) I'm not sure I care though.

The point isn't that you don't play for fun, the point is it might be harder to empathize with someone who is after acrylic tools if you have them and usually get them. If you understand and do empathize then I'm not sure why you got all worked up and felt the need to tell me what a martyr for the game you are instead of just saying "yeah I get that, it'd be nice if they sold something official"

11 hours ago, BiggsIRL said:

You misunderstand.

I am not saying what a nice person I am.

I am saying get used to getting nothing because not even cancer can stop me from showing up and taking all of the prize and then giving it away to some random guy who just played his first game that day. Such is my dedication and promise to this community.

So if you aren't showing up just to enjoy 3 games of Armada, too bad. Because all the prizes are going to my cancer riddled Konstantine using Blockade Run playing self.

I will drag you into enjoying the game for its own sake and not for plastic crap whether you like it or not.

I'm that random guy.

Two weeks ago Biggs won the Ohio regional tournament (with Garm!) and I came in dead last at my first tournament ever. After the award ceremony the first thing he said was "hey, if you're new to the game and would like something cool to take home today come see me." He didn't need to do that, he's just trying to foster a sense of community, and I think that's a perfectly legitimate response to the OP's question, which was, "why go to tournaments if not to win prizes?"

You may well empathize with people feeling left out of the prize pool, but the answer "but pay more attention to being welcomed into the community because that's ultimately more worthwhile than the swag" is a great one that doesn't miss your point at all, especially as modified by "and besides, the better members of the community are happy to give away the swag to people who value relationships with other human beings."

Anyway, thanks for the objective markers and we're sorry to have missed you in Michigan, Biggs.

1 hour ago, Scummy Rebel said:

True, but that's a viable way for what? One maybe three people in a given geographic area if you have multiple stores and one person doesn't monopolize the TOing to take the prizes?

I think FFG selling generic acrylic rulers and such makes much more sense for everyone including FFG's bottom line and the only way I can see someone objecting to that would be if they felt it would cheapen the prizes, but since none of us are playing for anything but fun and cheap plastic doesn't matter; whats not to like?

Until they do I will continue to feel sympathy for those who don't win or get gifted one. Not sure why that's such a controversial opinion.

Honestly even if the OP has it a big crossed this post just reinforces that no issue is too small for the " if I'm happy with how things are everyone else should be too" contingent on these forums. Though I'm surprised and disappointed to see you joining them @Darth Sanguis Hopefully I'm misunderstanding you.

If ffg just started selling these items then what would be used as prizes? They have to have unique prizes to atttact people to the scene, man.

3 minutes ago, ninclouse2000 said:

If ffg just started selling these items then what would be used as prizes? They have to have unique prizes to atttact people to the scene, man.

Alternate versions. Like the dice and acrylic tokens, cards and everything else they release. Maybe the prize acrylics would light up or have a unique color scheme. There's always something unique they could offer as a prize while still offering nice functional base models to the public.

Just now, Darth Sanguis said:

Alternate versions. Like the dice and acrylic tokens, cards and everything else they release. Maybe the prize acrylics would light up or have a unique color scheme. There's always something unique they could offer as a prize while still offering nice functional base models to the public.

@Scummy Rebel would most likely complain that any prizes used should be sold as well. I don’t think there is any pleasing this guy or the OP. I mean go to eBay and you can buy the prizes if you’re willing to pay. I don’t see the problem.

14 minutes ago, ninclouse2000 said:

@Scummy Rebel would most likely complain that any prizes used should be sold as well. I don’t think there is any pleasing this guy or the OP. I mean go to eBay and you can buy the prizes if you’re willing to pay. I don’t see the problem.

Can't we all get along... peaceful-like?

I go to tournaments looking to play multiple games against people I don't play all the time. Even if I'm losing every game I'm still getting to play, learn, and improve. That's what my entry fee paid for. Extra swag is nice and I'm not gonna turn it down but half of the stuff I get at tournaments goes into a box of extra prizes that I give out to new players at my own tournaments. If your only interest in tournaments is the prizes then do what others have suggested and just buy that s*** on Ebay. I play tournaments because it's f****** Armada that's why, anything else is just gravy.

4 hours ago, Boris_the_Dwarf said:

It’s partly reading comprehension and partly being accustomed to how Swiss works in other games. Typically, Swiss rounds continue until you reach a round with one undefeated player. Rankings are then determined based on performance throughout the event. In those tournaments using that system, losing your round 1 game puts you in an uphill battle for the rest of the day. But if you are playing 4-6 rounds in a field of 15-20 players, you have time to recover if you do well. 3 rounds where more than half the field of 16-28 players are 1-0 out of the gate would make that impossible in those events Are you saying that is different? And if you’re not scored on win/loss, then that makes even less sense to me.

Throw out everything you know about Swiss rounds from other games. Armada structure is sufficiently different enough that your assumptions are leading you to an incorrect assessment of how Armada works.

Whether you win or lose in the first round or the third doesn't really matter for scoring purposes - they're treated equally. And as others have mentioned you don't need to win them all to do well. I lost my second game out of 3 at Regionals and still placed 5th out of 26.

There are many old threads about Armada tournament structure - they're worth a read. The structure isn't perfect but it seems no worse than all the other alternatives.

There are certain personality types that will not enjoy tournaments. If this is you, then avoid them.

If you aren't a great player then you need to not care about win/loss and just show up to push plastic around.

This is my situation because I'm in Alamo country which has far too many highly skilled players for a casual like me to seriously compete.

1 hour ago, ninclouse2000 said:

@Scummy Rebel would most likely complain that any prizes used should be sold as well. I don’t think there is any pleasing this guy or the OP. I mean go to eBay and you can buy the prizes if you’re willing to pay. I don’t see the problem.

If I was going to do that why would I specifically have said sell GENERIC versions?

I've got nothing against people wanting something unique to show their achievements in plastic space ship combat. I have plenty of my own "cheap plastic" and I happen to like it and don't see a problem with anyone else who wants official stuff at non-eBay inflated prices as well. The idea that this concept ruffles feathers so much would be hillarous if it wasn't so sad.

Most people being understanding and not petty about non-official tools it isn't an argument for not trying to solve the problem entirely. If anything it's an argument for just allowing approved third-party tools in the rules as darth sanguis suggested. Boom, problem solved everyone wins. Why argue against that? What does it cost you?