6 hours ago, DScipio said:

Some thoughts on some of these points. I'm not arguing, just providing some thoughts:

6 hours ago, DScipio said:

Saw it yesterday. We discussed nearly an hour after wards in person and another hour on WhatsApp.

What I think:

What was bad:

• First 10 Minutes of the movie. I have a different opinion, but to each his own. I loved the "on hold" part.
• The Crawl is just the worst movie opening ever: Fingersnap, now the first order has the upper hand and controlls the galaxy.... How did they win a war so decisive, that the term "Republic" is not even mentioned in the whole movie . So it seems the Republic not only had enmassed their WHOLE Fleet on their seat of goverment. No fleets are still around in the vast galaxy. (Possible explanation: The New Republic wanted no new central navy because Palapatine missued it the last time, and it was the standard before the clone wars). However, the members of the republic seem to also have no fleet or even ships (not even in contruction) with wich they could resists the First Order. So its just a fingersnap to do what was the life time achivement of Palpatine (which we now know was far smarter than Snoke). Did you see The Force Awakens? The Republic was wiped out. The Republic wasn't fighting the First Order, so it is likely that their fleet was entirely in that one system.
• Why build a super "battleship" when all its flak can be destroyed by a single Ace and the whole ship by a crippled bomber? Because they went to the Death Start Design School
• the term "battleship" destorys the whole StarWars feeling. Okay I just saw that its just bad translation, in english its Dreadnought, which just ruins the much beloved Dreadnought class.
• Hux is the embodiement of a military fool descending into clownery. Every line of dialog of him was bad. 100%.
• Why bombard the immovable planet first and then the cruiser? Is common sense really so hard to write in a script? 1) Planets don't move much, so it's easier to target 2) They don't know how far along the evacuation was, and if you can take out the entire opposition sitting on a planet, why wouldn't you?
• why is the frist order having no bombers at all (a squadrons of simple TIE Bombers seem to win all of the three major engaments in the movie)? But at least they developed a ground bound superlaser to open up ... giant doors. Did you hear the FO talking about being too far away to support fighters (and bombers) and how easily the Raddus took out Kylo Ren's wingmen?
• so after reskinned TIE Fighters and X-Wings, we get reskinned A-Wings, very lazy.
• Snoke ... bold move to let him just die... to bold. it was just very unispiring and disappointing. the whole "I can read every feeling" was a big too thick... considering he obvious couldnt. But Snoke was entirely reading Kylo Ren's feelings, and reading them correctly. It was actually very smart on Kylo's part to match the movements of his own lightsaber to the movements of Luke's lightsaber - Kylo knew that Snoke really could read him like a book, so he just waited for the opportune moment to turn that against Snoke.
• ballistic trajectories in space? Was the whole "chase" around a sun or a black hole? Bombs dropping in space (our possible solution: the racks they were put on could also propell them)
• the Chase? Nobody in the Imperial navy has the idea to jump before them with a hyperjump? No other ships can be called to cut their way? They sent out 3 fighters, which manage to destroy the bridge and their response is not to just sent more fighters but to withdrawn this three? and meanwhile the resistance even flies away, recruit a stranger and infiltrate the enemy superdestroyer on their way back The FO said they knew the fleet was low on fuel, and didn't need anything fancy, just give chase and let them slowly die.
• Luke just throwing away his light saber when he gets it... I thought that was hilarious, and very informative of his mindset.
• Poe just walking to the chief in command and demanding to know more, (perhaps this was possible because she never wears an uniform?) He was used to doing it with Leia.
• the red power rangers The fight was great, but there does seem to be a lot of anti-lightsaber weapons around when there only seem to be two lightsabers left in the galaxy.
• Plot device again: We just hyperjump through the Suprememacy. I wonder why nobody every came on that idea, when it easily is THE best way to destroy large ships as ill equiped Rebels. Because of the cost - do you think the Raddus was free? That was a huge loss for the Resistance - it achieved a lot, but it's really a one-time use tactic - after doing it once, I'm sure the FO would never stack their ships in a way that multiple ships can be destroyed using the same tactic. And on a side note: That moment was brilliant. With how it built up to it, and then the sound cuts out entirely... it was beautiful.
• Weapon selling is the most evil thing, we ram it down your throat. Its very evil! No they wont mention that there are child-slaves just under their nose. Agree.
• the stormtroopers are 100% extraneous. They are complety irrelevant for the whole movie. Their only thing is to fight with BB8 that just hijacks an AT-ST and blasts them away. As opposed to....what? When have Stormtroopers ever been effective?

Indifferent

• Phasma doing the "Boba Fett" into fire Agreed.
• Reys parents are just hobos (or did the Sith just lie?) Kylo's not a Sith - but I think he's telling the truth. That's why we didn't see anyone when Rey went to the dark side cave. Because her parents really were just nobodies, and completely irrelevant.
• some more aliens in the restistance, but still very few Agreed.
• Leia`´s vacuum return (bad: they even just opend a door for her) Agreed.
• Light saber fights. Wow they were so much more thrilling in Ep 1-3 I thought the throne room fight was good, but too much "Jason Borne" and not enough "John Wick" - it was hard to follow the fight the way it was filmed and edited.
• A LOT, A LOT of budget and screen time for "funny little creatures" I thought it was just right - not too much, in my opinion.
• a lot of comedy even slapstick Agreed, but I thought it was overall good.
• the battle of Hoth in salt scene... I wanted to laugh when I saw it, but then I thought... okay its just trenches and gun positions. That SHOULD happen a lot in a conflict. Agreed, unless you have TIE fighters - strafe the trenches from the air. There's a reason trench warfare didn't last past WWI (tanks, but planes, too).
• The AT-M6 didnt look to silly in the movie, despite its silly name. Still not very creative.

Good Agreed

• Every Rey scene, just very well made. Her crude grasp of the force, her character, her dialoge ... erverything.
• the whole Kylo Ren . /. Rey realtionship. Good action, believable characters and development.
• Poes charackter development, although it was a bit quick
• Rose and other minor charakters like Kaydel Ko Connix, Amilyn Holdo
• the captain of the Mandator IV -class warship . Just the way a want a Imperial captain, and the best phrase in the whole Star Wars setting: "We should have deployed fighters 5 Minutes ago"
• The new Resistance bombers
• The mixture of repition of the Empire strikes back setting with total new and different characters: Histroy repeats itself but not the same. Best example: The eleveator scene: it was just like Luke and Vader, but Rey and Ren are total different characters.
• Nice landscape, but I didnt came for that.
• Mandator IV -class and the Suprememacy didnt look to silly in the movie.
• Plans just fail. The whole scanner sabotage, Finn` s drive into the Superlaser. Rey`` s plan to redeem Ren.
• Lukes final actions, that was well made.
  
  
  For me its a 8/10. Why you ask, as so much is bad? Because the movie is about Ren ./. Rey and when you fokus on that and some niche battle scene, its jaut a good movie.

Again, just my thoughts on some of the points you bring up.

From the moment Kylo killed Snoke, I could not stop pondering about the latter's identity.

I think it is unacceptable to leave that character unaddressed. I think it was a lazy, unimaginative, mistake not to provide us with even a scintilla of evidence regarding Snoke's backround, other than the fact that he can use force lightning and is obviously a Sith.

5 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

From the moment Kylo killed I Snoke, I could not stop pondering about the latter's identity.

I think it is unacceptable to leave that character unaddressed. I think it was a lazy, unimaginative, mistake not to provide us with even a scintilla of evidence regarding Snoke's backround, other than the fact that he can use force lightning and is obviously a Sith.

I totally agree - you don't just come out of nowhere and take the leadership - Snoke had to be someone, from somewhere not a Rey Nobody. But maybe he was a puppet or a clone of the Emperor himself? I don't know. We don't know. Would like it to be addressed.

7 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

From the moment Kylo killed I Snoke, I could not stop pondering about the latter's identity.

I think it is unacceptable to leave that character unaddressed. I think it was a lazy, unimaginative, mistake not to provide us with even a scintilla of evidence regarding Snoke's backround, other than the fact that he can use force lightning and is obviously a Sith.

They spent more time developing Rose than any of the other new trilogy characters... it’s a shame

7 hours ago, DScipio said:

Saw it yesterday. We discussed nearly an hour after wards in person and another hour on WhatsApp.

What I think:

What was bad:

• First 10 Minutes of the movie.
• The Crawl is just the worst movie opening ever: Fingersnap, now the first order has the upper hand and controlls the galaxy.... How did they win a war so decisive, that the term "Republic" is not even mentioned in the whole movie . So it seems the Republic not only had enmassed their WHOLE Fleet on their seat of goverment. No fleets are still around in the vast galaxy. (Possible explanation: The New Republic wanted no new central navy because Palapatine missued it the last time, and it was the standard before the clone wars). However, the members of the republic seem to also have no fleet or even ships (not even in contruction) with wich they could resists the First Order. So its just a fingersnap to do what was the life time achivement of Palpatine (which we now know was far smarter than Snoke).
• Why build a super "battleship" when all its flak can be destroyed by a single Ace and the whole ship by a crippled bomber?
• the term "battleship" destorys the whole StarWars feeling. Okay I just saw that its just bad translation, in english its Dreadnought, which just ruins the much beloved Dreadnought class.
• Hux is the embodiement of a military fool descending into clownery. Every line of dialog of him was bad. 100%.
• Why bombard the immovable planet first and then the cruiser? Is common sense really so hard to write in a script?
• why is the frist order having no bombers at all (a squadrons of simple TIE Bombers seem to win all of the three major engaments in the movie)? But at least they developed a ground bound superlaser to open up ... giant doors.
• so after reskinned TIE Fighters and X-Wings, we get reskinned A-Wings, very lazy.
• Snoke ... bold move to let him just die... to bold. it was just very unispiring and disappointing. the whole "I can read every feeling" was a big too thick... considering he obvious couldnt.
• ballistic trajectories in space? Was the whole "chase" around a sun or a black hole? Bombs dropping in space (our possible solution: the racks they were put on could also propell them)
• the Chase? Nobody in the Imperial navy has the idea to jump before them with a hyperjump? No other ships can be called to cut their way? They sent out 3 fighters, which manage to destroy the bridge and their response is not to just sent more fighters but to withdrawn this three? and meanwhile the resistance even flies away, recruit a stranger and infiltrate the enemy superdestroyer on their way back
• Luke just throwing away his light saber when he gets it...
• Poe just walking to the chief in command and demanding to know more, (perhaps this was possible because she never wears an uniform?)
• the red power rangers
• Plot device again: We just hyperjump through the Suprememacy. I wonder why nobody every came on that idea, when it easily is THE best way to destroy large ships as ill equiped Rebels.
• Weapon selling is the most evil thing, we ram it down your throat. Its very evil! No they wont mention that there are child-slaves just under their nose.
• the stormtroopers are 100% extraneous. They are complety irrelevant for the whole movie. Their only thing is to fight with BB8 that just hijacks an AT-ST and blasts them away.

Indifferent

• Phasma doing the "Boba Fett" into fire
• Reys parents are just hobos (or did the Sith just lie?)
• some more aliens in the restistance, but still very few
• Leia`´s vacuum return (bad: they even just opend a door for her)
• Light saber fights. Wow they were so much more thrilling in Ep 1-3
• A LOT, A LOT of budget and screen time for "funny little creatures"
• a lot of comedy even slapstick
• the battle of Hoth in salt scene... I wanted to laugh when I saw it, but then I thought... okay its just trenches and gun positions. That SHOULD happen a lot in a conflict.
• The AT-M6 didnt look to silly in the movie, despite its silly name. Still not very creative.

Good

• Every Rey scene, just very well made. Her crude grasp of the force, her character, her dialoge ... erverything.
• the whole Kylo Ren . /. Rey realtionship. Good action, believable characters and development.
• Poes charackter development, although it was a bit quick
• Rose and other minor charakters like Kaydel Ko Connix, Amilyn Holdo
• the captain of the Mandator IV -class warship . Just the way a want a Imperial captain, and the best phrase in the whole Star Wars setting: "We should have deployed fighters 5 Minutes ago"
• The new Resistance bombers
• The mixture of repition of the Empire strikes back setting with total new and different characters: Histroy repeats itself but not the same. Best example: The eleveator scene: it was just like Luke and Vader, but Rey and Ren are total different characters.
• Nice landscape, but I didnt came for that.
• Mandator IV -class and the Suprememacy didnt look to silly in the movie.
• Plans just fail. The whole scanner sabotage, Finn` s drive into the Superlaser. Rey`` s plan to redeem Ren.
• Lukes final actions, that was well made.
  
  
  For me its a 8/10. Why you ask, as so much is bad? Because the movie is about Ren ./. Rey and when you fokus on that and some niche battle scene, its jaut a good movie.

Agreed about 85% with this review. Although I must admit, being a hardcore nerd, it would be impossible to satisfy 100%!

7/10

45 minutes ago, Gottmituns205 said:

This movie was silly...had some funny moments...but didn't feel like a Star Wars movie to me...

I actually agree, it didn't have that star-wars feel, something about all the Hollywood they threw into it maybe? Personally I was missing the music, they dropped the ball on original score hard.

Also may be because it relied on very un-star wars things like "fuel"?

21 minutes ago, Alzer said:

Also may be because it relied on very un-star wars things like "fuel"?

The use of fuel has been pretty well documented in the SW universe?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Fuel

21 minutes ago, Alzer said:

I actually agree, it didn't have that star-wars feel, something about all the Hollywood they threw into it maybe? Personally I was missing the music, they dropped the ball on original score hard.

Also may be because it relied on very un-star wars things like "fuel"?

Same here.... I dunno, it’s like the movie was soulless, the characters aren’t interesting and they don’t really care about what’s going on. The only characters who seemed to give a **** were the captain of the dreadnaught and the (Captain Cannady I think) and the resistance bomber gunner ( rose’s sister) and they both died in the first 20 minutes...

Is Poe a hero? He seems more like a hotshot who cares nothing for the well being of his comrades...

Do Finn and Rose really care about their friends who are being chased down by the bad guys... cause they seemed to care more for the horse things.

how can they expect me to care when the characters don’t give a ****...

Ok, one thing I forgot until just now. How did the random "code breaker" (slicer) know to tell the First Order to look for cloaked ships?

Also, "no ship that small has a cloaking device", right?

My own thoughts, in no particular order:

• All the scenes with Kylo+Hux were excellent.
• All the scenes with Kylo+Rey were excellent.
• All the scenes with Luke were downright epic, full stop.
• Most scenes with Poe were also pretty cool, though less than in TFA.
• As much as I like Finn and Rose's characters, their impact on the story was minimal and their subplot simply made the movie drag on:
  • The whole casino/codebreaker story was a bit of a stretch, and also... pointless.
  • The Phasma cameo was... pointless.
  • The escape scene in the Mega-SD was... pointless.
• The Leia Space Wizard scene is awful - not because it's implausible but because it looks silly .
• Snoke's untimely demise was neat - even a little unexpected...
  • ...but also a little jarring. A character remarkable in so many ways must have had an equally remarkable backstory. It feels odd that they chose not to tell it.
• Porgs are cool! But overused - half the screentime would have been ideal.
• Hyper-ramming looks magnificent , but:
  • Depicting this as viable entirely kills my suspension of disbelief - how could this possibly not have been weaponized before, after hundreds of years of affordable hyperspace technology?
  • Let me stress this: we've now had five movies whose entire plot was "the bad guys have a very large object and we only have lots of small ones (with hyperdrives), how can we possibly defend ourselves?"
• This is also the third SW movie in which the heroes use a stolen ship to infiltrate the enemy's base of operations in order to steal/disable something.
• Too many bits and pieces that felt too Earth-y and not enough Star Wars-y:
  • Fuel - sure, there've been a few mentions of it before in Rebels and Legends, but... it feels wrong.
  • "The king Supreme Leader is dead - long live the king Supreme Leader "
  • The whole look and feel of the casino
• I like that it brings some sort of grand continuity to the story of the Force:
  • It presents the Force as a universal, natural, untamed... thing
  • It presents the Jedi and the Sith as opposing factions vying for control of it
  • The OT becomes a period in which the Sith essentially monopolize it entirely
  • The rise of Ren, Rey, and even the little kid (not to mention the TFA title) represent a democratization of the Force and a return to its natural state, free from any archaic dynasties, corseted institutions or other artificial restraints
• All in all, a bit of a rollercoaster:
  • Some truly fantastic highs...
  • ...and some disappointing lows - not very low but frustrating because they could have been so easily avoided with tighter screenwriting

24 minutes ago, TheToad said:

Same here.... I dunno, it’s like the movie was soulless, the characters aren’t interesting and they don’t really care about what’s going on. The only characters who seemed to give a **** were the captain of the dreadnaught and the (Captain Cannady I think) and the resistance bomber gunner ( rose’s sister) and they both died in the first 20 minutes...

Is Poe a hero? He seems more like a hotshot who cares nothing for the well being of his comrades...

Do Finn and Rose really care about their friends who are being chased down by the bad guys... cause they seemed to care more for the horse things.

how can they expect me to care when the characters don’t give a ****...

I actually liked it as a movie, it just didn't feel like Star Wars

8 minutes ago, DiabloAzul said:

Fuel - sure, there've been a few mentions of it before in Rebels and Legends, but... it feels wrong.

I have no idea why this is bothering me so much... lol not to make a federal case of it but didn't Obiwan directly mention refueling on Utapau in Episode 3? We see X-wings getting fueled up before launching their attack on the death star in the original movie? I mean, Bespin was literally a giant city centered around a mine for Tabanna gas, one of the fuels used for Hyperdrives....

it's never been a heavily discussed subject, sure, likely due to it's availability, but it's something that makes sense right?

maybe I'm going nuts lol

48 minutes ago, TheToad said:

Same here.... I dunno, it’s like the movie was soulless, the characters aren’t interesting and they don’t really care about what’s going on. The only characters who seemed to give a **** were the captain of the dreadnaught and the (Captain Cannady I think) and the resistance bomber gunner ( rose’s sister) and they both died in the first 20 minutes...

Is Poe a hero? He seems more like a hotshot who cares nothing for the well being of his comrades...

Do Finn and Rose really care about their friends who are being chased down by the bad guys... cause they seemed to care more for the horse things.

how can they expect me to care when the characters don’t give a ****...

Poe's development during this film was about understanding that the people involved are the Resistance, not the machines of war. He started out focused on inflicting losses on the First Order. Leia rebukes him. From that lesson, he thought Leia meant simply force preservation of the Resistance. So later he is thinking, "Ok. So we need to preserve the Resistance fleet! Got it!" Wrong again, fly boy. By the end, though, he understands.

Saying Finn doesn't care about his friends? Come on. In both movies, Finn is ALL about helping Rey and to heck with the Resistance. Even in this movie, he's going to desert the Resistance so he can help her. It wasn't until the very end of this movie that he starts to fight for something more. His world opened because of his side trip with Rose (but I think that was underdeveloped in the film...or too ham-handed.) And Rose? She is doing whatever small part she can to save people. How about the empathy she feels for the slave kids? Her only problem is that she is probably paralyzed trying to help everyone and everything.

And then there's Luke and Leia. Luke becomes a hermit for fear of inflicting worse harm on the galaxy with his potential apprentices. Leia sees the big picture better than them all. The spark of hope has to be preserved. Save the people of the Resistance so that the rest of the galaxy has a chance to save itself. She feels every loss, and it shows. The scene with Leia and Holdo at the end is poignant, because Holdo really gets it. To lose someone that understands what they are fighting for and how they need to fight is a big loss.

27 minutes ago, headache62 said:

Ok, one thing I forgot until just now. How did the random "code breaker" (slicer) know to tell the First Order to look for cloaked ships?

Also, "no ship that small has a cloaking device", right?

I don't think he told them to look for the cloaked ships, I think he told them the rebels were loading up on the transports to get off the cruiser. So they just knew to look for small ships.

I also don't know how the cloaking works, but maybe it's a bit more like silent running for a sub than for a real cloaking?

1 minute ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I have no idea why this is bothering me so much... lol not to make a federal case of it but didn't Obiwan directly mention refueling on Utapau in Episode 3? We see X-wings getting fueled up before launching their attack on the death star in the original movie? I mean, Bespin was literally a giant city centered around a mine for Tabanna gas, one of the fuels used for Hyperdrives....

it's never been a heavily discussed subject, sure, likely due to it's availability, but it's something that makes sense right?

maybe I'm going nuts lol

I've always been of the understanding that the big capital ships use some sort of reactor that lasts a good long time, so a City Ship should not just be...gassing out. Fighters and freighters? Sure, that's totally a thing.

3 minutes ago, Alzer said:

I've always been of the understanding that the big capital ships use some sort of reactor that lasts a good long time, so a City Ship should not just be...gassing out. Fighters and freighters? Sure, that's totally a thing.

Kinda like how we have nuclear submarines? Yep. That's what I thought too...

8 minutes ago, Alzer said:

I've always been of the understanding that the big capital ships use some sort of reactor that lasts a good long time, so a City Ship should not just be...gassing out. Fighters and freighters? Sure, that's totally a thing.

I've just been reading up. This is 100% accurate.

You guys are right, a ship the size of the Raddus by no means should have been running on fuel, but instead be powered by a reaction core.

huh.... that seems like an important plot hole?

Well, it does not qualify as "plot hole" because it's based on assumptions that are not presented. But it's just odd and not very Star Wars-y. It feels much more like something from, say, BSG or Firefly.

3 minutes ago, DiabloAzul said:

Well, it does not qualify as "plot hole" because it's based on assumptions that are not presented. But it's just odd and not very Star Wars-y. It feels much more like something from, say, BSG or Firefly.

The fuel shortage took me right back to Season 1 of Galactica as well.

And that jump into the Supremacy is straight up Pegasus at New Caprica for me too.

Not to mention that the Raddus and the other ships were there to evacuate the Resistance base in the first place. One would have expected them to load up on fuel as part of that process, no? Otherwise they're clearly not going to be get very far.

Given that fuel was basically the whole plot of the film, I also missed them pumping/ferrying all remaining fuel from the support ships into the Raddus, and/or using those as battering rams with the last few drops.

EDIT: And, y'know, I'm not a livingbeingist, but... maybe use droids instead of master strategists * to crew the bridge for suicide runs?

(*: although I guess this kinda proves she wasn't )

4 minutes ago, Stasy said:

The fuel shortage took me right back to Season 1 of Galactica as well.

And that jump into the Supremacy is straight up Pegasus at New Caprica for me too.

Or going back further Wing Commander with the Victory was it? Or Kyhron crashing into the SDF-1, or anytime they did the Daedolus Manuevor. All of those however were sublight rams.

I share a lot of thoughts with what people have said before.

Overall I liked the movie much better than TFA, but the biggest thing lacking was anything in space. Obviously loving Armada, that is something that we all share. And all the scenes that had to do with space battles were just... lazy.

Poe attacks a FRIGGIN HUGE Dreadnaught, by himself and takes out... 100 percent of their flak. By himself. Because they didn't have a single fighter ready to go before hand. (Poe probably would just e-brake slide and shoot them regardless, but still, not a single fighter? Of the thousands that would be in that task force? Not one?) Also, the other Star destroyers don't form a perimeter? They don't fire as well? They don't scramble their fighters? In fact... they don't do anything. At all. They just watch. Cool. No one even sees the bombers until they are DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THE DREADNAUGHT. Shouldn't they have at least been seen by one person of the 10s of thousands of people in that task force? Don't we have somebody on sensors? Anybody?

The chase scene kind of reminds me of a sailing ship chase, like master and commander style. Which can be pretty exciting! This was not. The problems are many:

1. The first order has at the very least dozens of Star Destroyers (and at least one other Dreadnaught), a simple phone call could bring one on an intercept course.

2. Or just send one of the nearby Star Destroyers on a jump to lightspeed for an intercept course.

3. We have literally thousands (probably 10s of thousands of Tie fighters, and three just took out the bridge and all fighter support). But no one thought "Hey we could just send a couple more. It's not like we care about losing them, or have any shortage. We could end this right now!" But no, instead they say "We can't support you from that far..." Who effing cares! When have the bad guys ever cared!

4. Also, the Raddus must have redundant shields and be spamming engineering commands. Those are strong shields!

5. Plus, if the Raddus is actually faster than the fleet, shouldn't it be getting farther away? Instead it looks like they are always the exact same distance...

I have heard some lame defenses of these, but none of them are convincing. I think it's obvious the writers just don't really care about this aspect. Which is a shame, because obviously we do! Sadly I think we are in the minority.

I liked the movie, not sure if I loved it, but I hated anything to do with space battles.

To clarify, my dislike with the Leia in Space scene wasn't necessarily to do with the poor physics... (Although they did bug me, I recognise a franchise about space wizards probably doesn't require scientific verisimilitude.)

My issue with the scene was that it seemed poorly written. It seemed to imply that Leia was embracing her Force heritage, yet she doesn't use the Force again for the rest of the film. Feels like an unresolved plot thread. The scene's sole purpose is to put her out of action for the next act of the film. I think they could've done that in a better way.

Additionally, Kylo has just taken his finger off the trigger and decided not to kill his mom, but then his wingmen do it instead. No reaction from him whatsoever. Is he concerned for her wellbeing? Does he think that she's doomed to death? Does he sense her survival? Who knows? It should've served a much greater purpose in the narrative.

Out of all the scenes in this film, this one feels the most disjointed and unnecessary, in my opinion.

10 minutes ago, Captain Warden said:

It seemed to imply that Leia was embracing her Force heritage, yet she doesn't use the Force again for the rest of the film.

I get the feeling that Leia's "force abilities" may be more diplomatic than physical. It seems to me she can sense everything going on around her. She's able to sense the death of Han, Luke, she can sense the turmoil in her son when he attacks the ship. That said, I'd think that a Skywalker, even without formal training would learn to manage control over some level of physical force ability over the course of 30 years.

We really don't know how developed her skills are beyond what we've seen.

15 minutes ago, Captain Warden said:

The scene's sole purpose is to put her out of action for the next act of the film.

I don't think that's true, she's back on her feet by the end of the movie. Doesn't really seem to make sense to taker her out, put her back, and take her out again in the next film.


Though I do agree that Kylo's reaction should have been more intense.

The hyperspace multi-kill was arguably the single best moment of the movie...period.